Defensive light recc

Hi everybody! Man, what a great site, its nice to see a place on the internet with some useful information and helpful members. I'm wondering if you guys could give me a reccomendation for a light.

I'm going to Europe this summer and want something I can have with me in case I find myself in a bad situation over there. Basically, either large enough to be an effective club or bright enough... well so that they can't see. Also has to be allowed on a plane in carry on, I don't like letting my stuff out of my sight.

Additionally, I'm thinking of a LEO type carrier, maybe police or coast guard. I'm counting on having this light a long time, and hopefully it would be useful to someone in law enforcement.

I was thinking to wait for the Kroma, either milspec or standard,
A Gladius with a red filter,
A G2Z with KL3 head or a drop in LED module,
Or an M4 or M6.

Let me know what you guys think.

A club is out for carry on or probably walking around in a European city

From your list, I think the M4 or M6 would be good companions.

Welcome to CPF!

I think its fair to say that the individual often gets themself into bad situations -
Bad situations can often be avoided by better awareness etc.

I think its also fair to say that the individual gets themself out of bad situations - a tool is just that; an aid to assist the individual.

It's not what you've got but what you do with it that counts and to that end you may be better off taking classes in staying safe on the streets (as well as reviewing any guidance your nation and other credible sources may give for the various places you intend to visit). That sort of thing...

I am without doubt that with sufficient training I will be able to use a Photon keyring LED to help me get out of trouble. Without training I doubt there is any flashlight able to give me sufficient advantage to take care of me by itself.

I would personally select a small, compact LED flashlight with a PocketClip such as the L2 as my EDC when travelling. Anything smaller or without a pocketclip and you may not be able to access it fast enough. I tend to avoid holsters and pouches as they usually require a belt or to be carried in a more overt way. I would guess that one of the key things an foreigner would need to do is not draw any negative attention to himself (ie: Try to blend in with the locals, wear similar clothes as the locals).

Al

ruledpaper said:

Basically, either large enough to be an effective club or bright enough...

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How about an e2e or e2d? Small and lots of brightness (the e2d has a certain "advantage"). None are large enough for "club" size, but (you guys know what's coming if you've read my posts on this subject...) unless you have the training and mindset to use a "club", a large flashlight is as useful as an orange for defending yourself. Won't say much more today.

Oh, yeah Welcome to CPF!!

Size15... believe me, I don't intend to go looking for trouble, but hey, sometimes it can't be avoided and the people I'm gonna be traveling with won't exactly be the most street-savy. Also, I'm pretty confident with myself when it comes to close quarters fighting. But even just a light to blind someone and get away would be wonderful.

OK, you're confident about your "close quarters fighting"... do you really wanna lug a 2D-size equivalent light while travelling (plus a load of batts for that M6?). A 2x123 light is what I'd carry.

I saw somewhere online a pocket knife with LED Luxeon attachment. I think it takes (1) AAA.

or you can try that other flashlight club with the pepperspray built in.

In my opinion the surefire 6P will be perfect for your purpose, it's a real wall of light to blind somebody. I take it when walking late at night in european cities (i live in France).

A decent metal bodied flashlight 6 or so inches long combined with a few Kubaton classes would be helpful. Surefire L2, Minimag light, etc. But as Size15's said, it's mindset, avoidance, awareness, training, and practice, practice, practice for when the first three fail.

I'd recommend something that you wouldn't mind losing should it be confiscated or lost. A Minimag is very common, innocuous and cheap. It was also designed to be able to be employed with the same techniques usable with a Kubaton. One of the new bright LED drop-ins and you should be GTG. Anything longer and able to be used as an impact weapon and you will be looked upon with a jaundiced eye by the authorities. Depending on where you travel in Europe, the citize^M^M^Msubjects are not encouraged to fight back and are dealt with very harshly when they defend themselves. This is exactly why your self defense efforts need to focus on keeping yourself as low profile as is possible.

welcome to CPF, ruled paper, why dontcha stay awhile!

M4 and M6 both too big for me, something along the E2d, L2, L4 size should make a small impact weapon, while being fine for airports. Knife/club/pepperspray flashlights all no-nos there.

have a great trip and welcome again,
daloosh

In Europe you really don't want to get caught by the Police carrying a blade or spray etc. In the event of becoming involved in a fight you'll be in a lot of trouble if you're caught with such items regardless of whether or not you actually use them, or even have them in hand.

Europe is a rather large place and each country has different laws. It is difficult/impossible to make sweeping statements.

I figure that I'm more likely to be attacked when I visit the USA (I realise there is a line formed and ready :candle: ) compared to when I visit continental Europe. For the most part a group of people doing normal touristy type activities will not be a target for attacks but may well be a target for pick-pockets etc so taking pre-cautions against that sort of thing is a better use of time. For example handbags and camera straps that are easy to cut, open pockets, or pockets in rucksacks that can be opened easily from behind you etc. Expensive watches or jewellery or sunglasses etc. Don't make your group a target.

But the most important thing I feel is to travel light and easy - don't take anything you can't afford to loose/ditch/have stolen.

Al

sween1911 said:

It was also designed to be able to be employed with the same techniques usable with a Kubaton.

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A bit of a highjack here, but could someone provide me with a link where this is originally stated? It's the second or third time I see it mentioned.

Sure, a minimag can be used as such but, designed that way... I'll believe it when I see it.

The Streamlight Batonlite was designed as a kubaton/flashlight.

Jeff

I'm guessing that you've never been to Europe and probably have never ventured outside of the U.S.? Unless you're planning on getting involved with some pretty unsavory types, I don't think you need to worry anywhere near as much as a European tourist visiting any major US metropolitan area.

While paranoia tends to run higher in some discussion areas than others, unless you're planning on going out to look for some trouble, you'll most likely be in relatively low crime areas. Of course no one really knows since you never mentioned what country or countries you were going to be visiting. If you want to disclose that information, there may be some natives on this site that could elaborate a bit more for you.

ruledpaper said:

Size15... believe me, I don't intend to go looking for trouble, but hey, sometimes it can't be avoided and the people I'm gonna be traveling with won't exactly be the most street-savy. Also, I'm pretty confident with myself when it comes to close quarters fighting. But even just a light to blind someone and get away would be wonderful.

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I would also go for the Surefire 6P or E2E. both will give you blinding light & a chance to escape.

xpitxbullx said:

The Streamlight Batonlite was designed as a kubaton/flashlight.

Jeff

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:thanks: Still waiting on the minimag claim... I'm in Mythbuster mode today...

greenLED said:

:thanks: Still waiting on the minimag claim... I'm in Mythbuster mode today...

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I asked Maglite if it was a design intention. Awaiting reply.

Jeff

I'll be going to France and England for those interested, my concern being my well being and that of my companions during whatever night outings we're taking.

I find it hard to believe that the risk of personal assault is zero.

All the same, I think choosing a flashlight for defense is a bit like choosing a car: You can pick a car based on a variety of criteria for various needs, but if you don't know how to drive, your ability to get from point A to point B will be "somewhat" limited.

I think I would pick something that would be secured to my person at all times, basically as hard to lose or be stolen as a wristwatch. SureFire E2L maybe? It can be used in defensive techniques, but lacks in the blinding dept. An L4 would be a better choice if blinding was more important than having good runtime.

Scott

greenLED said:

A bit of a highjack here, but could someone provide me with a link where this is originally stated? It's the second or third time I see it mentioned.

Sure, a minimag can be used as such but, designed that way... I'll believe it when I see it.

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I read an article by Massad Ayoob who stated that Don Keller (of Kel-lite fame) had input into the design of the Minimag such that it could be used with the Kubaton techniques. It's an old article in a gun rag somewhere, but I'll see if I can dig it up.