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arab

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For some reason, I "tripped" over this
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4951 thread (I believe it was the first thread I started in the CPF!) earlier. It's dated 11-14-2001 and it got me thinking about how ARC in it's various guises has progressed in the last 5 years; not a lot would be the initial response.

As a one time supporter of Peters, I have to say that I felt both happy and quite sad when I received my Photon Proton recently. In terms of functionality, it's all I ever wanted in a light, so that makes me happy. I'm sad because I know it's the light that Peter should be making. I'm also sad because I know Peter could make this light in a AAA form factor and that would make the whole package so desirable.

I think instead of being somewhat dismissive of my thoughts all those years ago, Peter should have attempted something like this. It's not for me, look at the demand for the Proton. And at it's price point, imagine the margins!

Another American company many years ago decided to "sweat it's assets" and, in doing so, spent virtually nothing on new product development. That company is Palm and it is now a sad reflection of it's former self; no longer the almost-inventor of what we now know as the modern PDA. Instead it owns no operating system, and it's recent offerings are just reshelled Windows Smartphones which others in lower cost base countries can make at a fraction of the price.

We have seen many recent posts in this board discussing the lead times for the "new" AAA ARC; these are now down to nothing if ordered today. This board now sees a small handful of posts per day, whereas in the past, ARC was effectively the same as the CPF.

In this day and age, we all know you have to run to stand still. Companies therefore than stand still are going backwards and will, sadly, probably not survive. I can't imagine an intelligent man like Peter needs unwanted commenary like the above from me: surely he knows all this himself.

5 years ago, I said "I'm sure an AAA with a facility to vary light output (I wouldn't be interested in any strobe facility) would have a great gadget value and would sell like hot cakes!" I still passionately believe this to be true. Over to you Peter.
 

Gransee

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Hello Alan,

I remember parts of that old post. For example, I remember putting your userid in quotes because I didn't want to get in trouble calling someone any particular ethnicity (my post was 2 months after 9/11). Sometimes there is a fine line between fearing people won't like what you have to say and trying to find a nice way to say what you must so as to be more gracious. For example, my response that followed the greeting.

Darell especially and some others if I recall had also asked for dimmable capability. I alluded to the previous threads in my original reply.

To dismiss is to reject. As far as the merits of dimming a light in general, Arc made the first dimmable high power LED flashlight. I think sometimes my wrestling with how to fit what I thought would be the required electronics in what I felt would be the ideal size was interpreted by more than one person as a rejection of the whole concept of dimming.

I have wanted to make a dimmable Arc-AAA for years. I have researched quite a few design variations. I did another survey recently working with various contractors. I have yet to find a system than I am happy with. Like I originally said, the problem is that it would make the light bigger or dramatically more expensive. And I have said countless times in response to various requests to add to the size of the Arc-AAA, I think it is already too big. I am looking for ways to shrink its size, not increase it.

More on the technical issues… What is required for a dimmable Arc-AAA is a logic circuit (uC) for interpreting user input/etc, boost power supply and a simple interface between the digital and analog sections. This assumes that the current twist switch is used to save space/simplify and therefore persistent logic is required. What some mods have done is either use super dense construction (that raises the cost in production much higher than I feel is justified for a dimmable function) or removed the boost circuit and used a simpler PWM/LDO regulator scheme. This reduces parts count from the boost setup which allows more production friendly designs. The problem then is that the 1.5v AAA alkaline can no longer be used. This breaks one of the original design tenants of the Arc-AAA. At that point, you might as well use the best lithium cell you can find for the task. That is "under the hood" on how I got from dimmable to the Photon3 in my original one paragraph.

So in review, I don't reject the idea of a dimmable Arc-AAA. I do reject however, all the designs I have evaluated to date.

I do want to make another revision of the Arc-AAA. Everyone should know my colors on that subject by now. However, it will have to wait until the new LS rev is completed. The LS rev will take the remainder of this year.

I do hope I have answered your request adequately.

Peter
 
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Gransee

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Oh but there is more... :) I do sympathize with were my chain of logic can leave a person: you want a product, you want it now and you don't want to pay a lot for it. Some people may have indicated it was somehow possible to meet most of those demands and I was just either resting on my laurels or didn't care. That is not true but I do sympathize.

I can see how from an external perspective, It may seem like I am absent in some way. I have only one product shipping right now and it is a relatively older design. A solid and mature design, but not flashy or exciting as something new.

Seeing in depth the work I have been doing for the past year in secret would likely tell a different story for most people.

What makes a good designer? Skill? My skill has increased in the past year alone. Passion? I am just as passionate as before but now it is honed and more efficient. Luck? Well... :) A good team? You bet.

I am not just some outlet for you guys to express the latest fad in lighting. I am my own person. You may like it or not where that ends up. This means I sometimes do things you don't agree with. I also find I have an increasingly opinionated position on what a tool should be. :)

With the new LS, I am learning a lot. I relied a little less on contractors for some of the technical aspects and I went back to the drawing board on what I think makes a good tool. As a result, it is taking longer than a typical design. My reports says, "we are making progress each day, although not as fast as I would like". It has also cost quite a bit more than I expected. In some ways, I started with a clean slate (for me at least). In other ways, I reaffirmed proven concepts.

It is very important to understand that the logical result of all this soul searching is not going to be a pancea for every flashlight need. In fact, this design will probably be less revolutionary (due to market maturity more than my capabilities as a designer) and less universally loved (due to my more narrow opinions on what makes a good design and a general mass-market dumbing down of the industry as a whole).

Peter
 
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Gransee

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Alan, I re-read your post and saw this:

"Peter could make this light [the Proton] in a AAA form factor and that would make the whole package so desirable. "

This is ironic. But you have to know why. Unfortunately, much of it is confidential.

I will say that David of LRI is a much better flashlight designer than me. He is also one of the nicest guys in the industry. I agreed with him that the AA cell was a logical choice for the Proton design goals. If you are going to have an optic with that diameter, you might as well use the AA because it is more common and will provide a longer runtime.

Your immediate point though, if I understand, was the control system used. I think I have already addressed that question.

It is important to understand that I did not say a future AAA was impossible. While I am working on the LS a competitor may beat me to market with a new AAA. I said I was finishing one project before starting another. I also provided an explanation for why I could appear to be resting on my laurels.

Peter
 
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icecube

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Peter,

I doubt anyone could beat the solidness, purity, power, size, and comfort that exrudes from the AAA—I pretty much know that if I drop my keys in a pond, off a 2 story building, etc the Arc should most likely come out fine, albiet with some possible cosmetic damage.

Still, I would snap up a Luxeon I AA that ran off lithiums. CR123a could suffice, as in the Peak Glacier Bay/Atlantic which I've been hunting for awhile, as a good 1w Lux and a AAA-P rev.4 are pretty good for most of my needs. Of course even a 2x AA 1W Lux might even work, but runtime and power are not bed-buddies.

arab, would you happen to know when they started going downhill? I've had my Palm IIIxe since '98 or so...I can't remember when I've bought it, but the screen has gone bonkers twice, the last time I figured out how to do it and replaced it with a screen off eBay. $120 for a screen change hurts when you're only around 14 (when I got it). It's only 16 shades of grayscale, but the simplistic interface, some fairly good software available for it, and the classic design is something I'll remember for awhile. Kinda like the newer BMWs like the 2005+ E90s and what not—they don't look like BMWs anymore. Most cars today IMHO look like a creation of a tornado. E30s (84-91 3-series), the E36 325is (1993-1998) and the E31s (1991 to 1999 8-series) look like BMWs. Sort of like Arcs—they look like flashlights, not the trendish aggressive looks and flashy lines/colors of today.
 

Pathlight

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Peter,

I'm sure you have thought of it, but in case you haven't I thought of a way to
get more space out of the Arc aaa without making it any wider or longer. On
the tail make the end flat with an outer circle ridge tall enough for a ring hole
and a groove so light can stand on it's tail. Think I've seen this on some of
your 123A models. Just my 2 cents worth. The Arc aaa is about the largest
size I like to carry on my keychain. A little longer would be ok with me as long
as it was around 1 oz. or less (with lith. batt.). Whatever you do, best of luck. You certainly have my best wishes. Gordon
 

arab

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I suppose 3 reples in 49 minutes does show a sign of life. And the content of these replies would also indicate lots of behind the scenes development work.

Having said that, if I am a typical user then this may not count for much. In the past, we have done business together on a number of occasions; currently, I can't see anything that ARC could supply that I would want to open my wallet for.

:dedhorse: ... Other than a variable output AAA where the additional space required for electronics can be reclaimed (or more than reclaimed) by changing the tailcap design. I've ofter held the electronics for a Photon 3 in my hand and even with the "doubling up" on the circuit board necessitated by the smaller diameter of the AAA, I can't accept it will add to the length by such a significant margin.

Bigger light's - such as the ones you are working on - with multiple cheap or single expensive batteries are of no interest to me. But then maybe I'm alone here.

You are right to say that you are now very much doing your own thing. Continue to do so, and I hope your ideas and products that come out of them generate lots of business.
 

arab

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Just noticed there are 730 posts and 29636 views in the Proton thread in the Reviews section.

If you know David Allen that well, I'm sure he will hint at how that translates into $ business for LRI. I'm also sure that this light in a ARC AAA form factor would be an even bigger success.

I'll stop now, I've already killed the horse :dedhorse:
 
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