L1 Lumamax beam (old non-TIR vs. new TIR)

Hello - Does anybody have personal experience, links, or beamshots of the
old (non-TIR) L1-red vs. the new L1-red (TIR)?

I'm very impressed with beamshots of the older version non-TIR L1-red
Lumamax. Beam quality is very nice with virtually no distortion or artifacts,
night and day from the A2-red.

How has TIR changed the beam? Has it changed for better or worse?

Even if your experience is with white or other colors, please share as it may
help in my quest for answers on the red.

Sureifre used to advertise the L1-red Lumamax as...
"Flawless beam, no dark spots or rings."

This claim is not in the new version with TIR?

Thanks folks and Happy Torching!

serry,

for some reason, my message reply doesn't work so I have to do it here:

The L1-RD (old ver.) is almost all flood/spill with a slight hotspot that I further soften with an F04 beamshaper. I have heard that all of the new-version L1s are ALL pencilbeam with NO flood, which would make the L1-RD useless for night navigation without an F04. I can only confirm this with the L1-WH. Even WITH an F04, my new L1-WH has a dominating hotspot on "low" and a very prominent one on "high" (although it is now usable for the most part).

My prejudice is for all flood and NO hotspot at all if possible, at least for this particular task. There is entirely too much that can poke you by surprise if you do not have a broad enough beam or your attention is drawn to a "brighter hotspot" when not necessary. If I need more illumination, "hi" is just a second away by pushing the tailcap, and THAT will give you a WALL-OF-LIGHT.

After quite a bit of use at this task, I like the light enough that I never want to be without one and that is why I have two. Another point in it's favor is a Vf (forward voltage requirement for full-power operation) of only about 2.7 or 2.8 volts, so this old-version red head will run full-power on an E1e host with a 3v battery in "direct-drive" if the L1 regulated platform ever goes down.

An additional small point: The old version is smaller, lighter, and can be extensively modified MUCH more easily by Scott ("Milkyspit") here at CPF, to become anything that you want. I am going to have him do a custom L1-WH (old ver. of course) for myself.

Hope some of this helps,
Flashdark sends.

Have you noticed any difference in the runtime? IIRC, the old L1 has a 1w LED and the new version has a 3w that is presumably underdriven.

JNewell,

I am currently doing an evaluation of the L1-WH (old) vs. the L1-WH (new) since I couldn't find enough info about this anywhere else. So far, I have only done runtime tests on "low" with the following results:

The L1 (old) ran in "low" continuously (with occasional 1-2 second bursts to "hi" just to see if it still worked) for 208 hours. It fell to "moon-mode" (very dim) at about 160 hours, but the "hi" mode continued to work (albeit contankerously) until the 197-hour point. The L1 (old) worked normally in all respects to the 153-hour point, moon mode at 160 hours, "hi" mode until 197 hours, 208 hours to "death". Output is .7 lumens low/15 lumens high.

The L1 (new) ran in "low" continuously (with occasional 1-2 second burts to "hi" just to see if it still worked) for 168-176 hours. It fell to "moon-mode" (very dim) at about 118 hours, but the "hi" mode continued to work until the 118 hour point. (Apparently, this "last gasp" effort to "hi" at 118 hours CAUSED the fall to "moon-mode"). The L1 (new) worked normally in all respects to the 90 hour point, moon mode at 118 hours, "hi" mode until 118 hours, 168-176 hours to "death". (I was asleep when it died in the night sometime!) [It began to ease down to moon mode at 90 hours but was very subtle. It became more obvious at 102 hours, and was fully engaged in moon mode at 118 hours.] Output is 1.1 lumens low/22 lumens high.

These preliminary numbers are impressive, and my tests continue. This is merely a first report. I have a lot of testing to do. Runtimes seem to be directly related to power output and this was expected. The main reason that I was interested in the L1 (new) as an EDC was the potential of a still-decent runtime on one battery with the newly added "distance capability", but I had no idea that it would run THIS long. I feel that it is basically a useless light without the F04 beamshaper on the front of it for short-range flood, but if I am going to EDC a light, it must also have SOME distance potential. This one does.

Hope some of this helps.
Flashdark sends.

Thanks, I saw some of that info in another post - very helpful. The old version has some advantages - a little smaller, longer runtime, and wider spill if that is useful to the user. The new version has better throw and with the beamshaper will give you good spill.

Out of curiosity, do you (or does anyone else) know whether the new and old red versions have the same attributes as their respective white versions?

JNewell,
As far as I know, they ALL do, but check this with someone more knowledgable than I. This is what I have heard and I know it to be true for the L1-WHs. That is why I am sticking with the old L1-RD for night-navigation. I am only looking at the new L1 in White as an EDC because of it's distance capability. HOWEVER, I will probably go to Scott ("Milkyspit") for a custom-built L1-WH if I decide on the L1-WH as a permanent EDC.

Hope this helps.

Flashdark - This is exactly the info I was looking for, thanks. The all flood
older L1 would be best suited for my needs just as it it for yours. The 1.1 and
17 lumens of flood would be perfect for night fishing, hunting, and night
hiking. Would also make a great backpacking/kayaking light with the right
amount of output for long periods.

How is the beam quality on the new version L1 with the TIR compared to the
older non-TIR? Any/all specific thoughts on just this would be appreciated.
Is it a smooth beam with a hot spot? artifactual beam with hot spot? or? Is
the low beam hot spot on your new L1 to much for map reading. How is the
high beam hot spot at 6-12' out?

Thanks Flashdark for all the help. Happy torching!

Flashdark said:

serry,

The L1-RD (old ver.) is almost all flood/spill with a slight hotspot that I further soften with an F04 beamshaper. I have heard that all of the new-version L1s are ALL pencilbeam with NO flood...

My prejudice is for all flood and NO hotspot at all if possible, at least for this particular task. There is entirely too much that can poke you by surprise if you do not have a broad enough beam or your attention is drawn to a "brighter hotspot" when not necessary. If I need more illumination, "hi" is just a second away by pushing the tailcap, and THAT will give you a WALL-OF-LIGHT.

Flashdark sends.

Click to expand...

seery,

I presume we are talking about the L1-WH, which is the only "new" L1 version that I have. The TIR optic throws a beam of light that is like shinning a light down a pipe, literally. It is ALL focused intensity. It IS smooth and "square" in shape (the nature of this particular Luxeon III emitter). It DOES have a very thin, distant, and dim halo ring some distance from the core shaft of light, but this is pretty much useless and mildly irritating. I think that "useless artifact" describes the effect. You would have to back this light out to almost double the distance of the "old" L1 from any piece of paper you were trying to read or the intensity of the beam would burn the back of your retinas out (even WITH an F04 on the front of it to soften things). The old L1 had a hotspot but absolutely nothing to compare with the new one.

The effect of the hotspot (or beam, since the total beam is nothing BUT a hotspot) at 6-12' can only be described as "searing". Truly, this light is virtually useless without an F04 to soften things up and flood them out. HOWEVER, having said this, IF you are going for DISTANCE with the minimum power and battery drain, this is the light. It's 22 lumens will slightly out-throw the 65-lumen "focused and reflectored" E2e. WITH an F04, it floods out to about the same width as an "old" L1, albeit now with a far more noticeable hotspot, especially in "low", but also in "high". Once I got use to it, I actually preferred it, because, at heart, I really did want more intensity in both "low" and "high", as well as the distance capability, and the more focused hotspot magnifies the effect of the lumen increase. I was truly going to make it my new EDC until I discovered that "Milkyspit" still customizes the "old" L1s to make them EVEN BETTER for about $175.00, so I am going to try that first.

With an F04, this is a better light than the "old" L1, despite all of the drawbacks. Without it, it is far too limiting. With the F04, I recommend it. Without the F04, I do NOT.

Hope this helps Seery,
Flashdark sends.

When I was camping a few nights ago I took the L1 WH with me. I am pretty much complete agreement with flashdark. The beam is TIIIIGGHHHTTT with little or no spill. With the F04 it is a great flooder.

Late in the night/early in the am my son had to go outside for some "relief." I walked out with him. While he was watering a nearby tree we heard a noise in the woods. I had the L1 + F04 with us. I took the F04 off and was surprised with how well that little light was able to penetrate the trees around us.

As I stated in another thread I think the L1 WH with the F04 is a great, great combination. Long run time, pocketable, and one may have either a hot throw or bright flooder when needed. Out of all the lights I took with us the L1 was the one my son wanted to use (and used) during the trip.

Flashdark - Thanks for the input. I've used your posts as the bible, reading them
a hundred times trying to make a decision. Going to try the new L1 with the H04
and chances are that will do it. If not the there is a nice guy holding two of the
old version L1-red's for me.

What exactly does Milkyspit do to the L1's? Is it 175.00 PLUS you send him the
light or does that include the L1-WH light as well?

My L1-red should be here Friday, I'll keep you posted on my thoughts and such.

seery,

He rebuilds the head on an old L1 body. You can send him your light for a cost of about $85.00 + shipping and insurance or he can do the whole thing and supply the light himself for $180.00 + shipping and insurance ($9.00). He will put a reflector in the head or an "elliptical optic" that he imports from the UK. He then changes the emitter in the head to one of 4 or 5 possibilities, based on the characterictics you desire. He predicts about 60 lumens on "high" for about a 2-hour runtime, and predicts "dozens of hours or more" on "low". I have yet to get a good idea of the various characteristics of the different emitters (throw vs. flood vs. "tint") but he says that his "high" setting is superior to the new L1, in terms of overall power, and especially spill. He also states that the reflector that he uses gives a nice amount of spill overall. IF you could acquire a light that has all of these advantages and does NOT require an F04 on the front, it would be pleasantly "small" and ONE might be worth the cost. I am still thinking about it, but for the six I need, it would cost over $1100.00, and I'm hesitating because I have yet to see a sample. We are still talking.

Hope this helps.

Flashdark -My first L1 arrived. It's the new style TIR L1-white. (L1-Red will
be here Wednesday or Thursday). Just finished my initial 60 minutes of "new
light" playtime.

I'm absolutely blown away by this light. It sounds as if there are variations
between samples depending on the LED. Here are a few first thoughts. Some
seem quite a contrast from what others have experienced.

- Nice spill with amazing throw. As you stated it easily out throws both my
E1E's and E2E's.
- The central lit area at max distance is much larger on the L1 in comparison
to both the E1E and E2E.
- On the ceiling or wall there is a very dominent outside halo ring. Outside in
the woods and fields on low is non-existent and on high is noticeable out to
15-20' where it then disappears.
- The low beam is perfect for reading, not to bright. Took out a "glossy"
magazine and matte finish map for testing and on low the light was perfect.
At 15" from my glasses there was no searing effect. Closer than that and I
would call it too hot.
- The pressure on the tail-cap is perfect. I find the "E" series a bit heavy.

The manual states;
- Low output maximum .65 lumens for 25 hours then 200 diminishing.
- High output maximum 15 lumens for 1.5 hours then 1 hour diminishing.

Isn't the old style 1.1 and 22 lumens? Did I luck out and get a great one or
were there possibly some line changes?

Can't wait until Wednesday/Thursday when the red arrives. Going to order a
green tommorow. This little L1 has me by the nuts!

OK it's back outside. It's raining good and this will be a good test to further
get to know the capabilities and limitations of this light.

Happy torching!

edit: I'm a putz. I just re-read your post and realize that you have the TIR head. It's the 22/1.1 as stated below. That's the one I have and I love it. Did you get an F04 too? That makes the light more versatile; definitely makes reading in low easier since it takes the glare off glossy pages.

The newer ones with the 3w LED are the 22/1.1 lumen output. Is the head on yours round or hex-shaped? If it's round it's the TIROS, if it's hex it's not. I had the hex (1st-gen) briefly and it was definitely floodier than the new TIROS which is a very tight, slightly square beam.

The light ouptut on low seems perfect for reading, even glossy pages. Maybe
my sample is a fluke, if not I am

The head is hex not round, I thought the hex was the newer style with the TIR
lens? Now I'm really confused.

This is the new style with F04 beam diffuser (and it happens to be mine):



This is the older style:

Ralls - Thanks for the pics. I was looking at the wrong part of the bezel for the
"hex". Yep, mine is the new style (top image). The L1-red is scheduled to be
delivered tomorrow and the green early next week Along with my L1-white,
should make a dandy trio.

Not sure why I waited so long to try these little devils out!

I love every bit of my L1-WH. While it's true that the beam is tighly collimated, I find that, while indoors, there's enough light bounced off walls, etc. to see a wider area. Definitely not an L4 effect of lighting up a scene, but there's enough scattered light to walk around. The beam is not like the old Inova X0 (?) with that obnoxious round beam. That said, a beam diffuser is definitely on my list of accessories to buy.

On the other hand, I used the L1 once at the movies and I could use high without bugging other people -quite nice. I started a thead about it some time ago.

:thinking: So far, there are 2 SF lights I'd by more of: the A2 and the L1.

Yep, I agree greenLED. In my opinion the L1-Wh is underappreciated. It is now becoming the flashlight of choice for my family when they need/want to use a flashlight. It is small, the two levels of illumination are just right for most of our tasks (walking the dog, walking on the beach at night, searching for that item in the kid's room when he/she is sleeping, etc). With the F04 it floods perfectly to use on night hikes and night geocaching too.

I'll go out on a limb but I don't see myself selling or trading this little light. It is a beauty and sure does its job. I may get another one so I can get my light back...:naughty:

a few years back when i was deciding which surefire to get it came down to e2e and l1. I went with the e2e for price but now im reconsidering an L1. How does the beam compare to a KL1 head?

Chucula said:

a few years back when i was deciding which surefire to get it came down to e2e and l1. I went with the e2e for price but now im reconsidering an L1. How does the beam compare to a KL1 head?

Click to expand...

Darn near identical. Check out this link for details:
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/surefire_kl1gen2.htm