Best color LED for use in total darkness?

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I'm trying to decide between red or amber. I'm in the process of tearing apart my Brinkmann 2AA to convert to night time exploration light. It's got a single 5mm white LED and I'm going to replace it with a colored one.

I want a good compromise between visibility and night vision preservation.

Also, where to get the best clear lens super bright 5mm LED?
 

Lit Up

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From my experience, anything bright enough to navigate by would ruin your night vision to some degree.
As far as 5mm red leds that wouldn't ruin night vision, If I had a choice between one of them and a Bic lighter for outdoor navigational purposes, I'd ask how much fluid is in the lighter....seriously.
The grass/ground soaks up alot of red light in a basic 5mm.

Having said that though, I'd really like to see some color choices in a SMJLED. (PR based preferred) and see how that measures up, because anything less is just too dim to be useful outside.
 

RonM

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For outdoor use I'd go with green. Didn't realize how useful green was until I got a Gerber headlamp that had both a red and green 5mm in it. I don't even bother with the read anymore, especially outdoors.
 

voodoogreg

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RonM said:
For outdoor use I'd go with green. Didn't realize how useful green was until I got a Gerber headlamp that had both a red and green 5mm in it. I don't even bother with the red anymore, especially outdoors.

WORD. VDG
 

galeso

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What would be better, Royal Blue with a lum. flux of 350 or a green with a lum. flux of 67.2?
 

chesterqw

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you wanna make your eyes poop using that royal blue?!?!

use the green for dang sake...

but hey, use the luxeon III R/O version running at full power...
 

InfidelCastro

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Lit Up said:
From my experience, anything bright enough to navigate by would ruin your night vision to some degree.
As far as 5mm red leds that wouldn't ruin night vision, If I had a choice between one of them and a Bic lighter for outdoor navigational purposes, I'd ask how much fluid is in the lighter....seriously.
The grass/ground soaks up alot of red light in a basic 5mm.

Having said that though, I'd really like to see some color choices in a SMJLED. (PR based preferred) and see how that measures up, because anything less is just too dim to be useful outside.


My red Photon II keychain light is pretty good when it's really dark outside. It's way better than a lighter.
 

Planterz

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My dad is an extremely avid amature astronomer, and he says that the red Photon III I gave him is too bright sometimes, and he usually has to dim it.

Usually, red doesn't harm your night vision because it's only visible by the cones, and not the rods, and the rods are the ones that detect the amount of light (cones detect color). Rods "see" by the destruction of rhodopsin, and "night vision" is gained by a build up of rhodopsin, which makes your eyes more sensitive in darkness. Red light doesn't destroy the rhodopsin in the rods, but there are still photopsins in the cones (red, green, and blue/voilet) in your eyes, which a red light can destroy. Generally, the cones are far quicker to build up, so the blindness doesn't last nearly as long, but you can still blind yourself with red. Might not matter to your average Joe, but to an astronomer (who might be trying to look at red objects in the sky), it's still a concern.

Here is an explaination (be sure to check the links as well), along with a chart that show the peak absorbsions of the photopsins in your eyes.

Red would be the best for night-vision preservation, obviously, but color recognition will be crap. Red/orange or amber is probably your best choice all around. I'd probably go with red/orange myself.
 

Vbeez

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This is my Enegizer night time exploration light. I changed the bulb with a 5 mm red led with Vf at 3 volt. Behind the CR2 is a cut paper roll with a resistor in it (forgot the value, just enough not to fry the led), so CR2+paper roll length=AA length. The stock switch became problem after a while, I will change it with a tail clickie later.

Beam shot

The stock diffuser lense make a nice beam shot.
Cost me less than $ 5 to make this light, $1 (light) + $.30(led) + $3(CR2 batt) + $.01 (resistor).
 

InfidelCastro

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Planterz said:
My dad is an extremely avid amature astronomer, and he says that the red Photon III I gave him is too bright sometimes, and he usually has to dim it.

Usually, red doesn't harm your night vision because it's only visible by the cones, and not the rods, and the rods are the ones that detect the amount of light (cones detect color). Rods "see" by the destruction of rhodopsin, and "night vision" is gained by a build up of rhodopsin, which makes your eyes more sensitive in darkness. Red light doesn't destroy the rhodopsin in the rods, but there are still photopsins in the cones (red, green, and blue/voilet) in your eyes, which a red light can destroy. Generally, the cones are far quicker to build up, so the blindness doesn't last nearly as long, but you can still blind yourself with red. Might not matter to your average Joe, but to an astronomer (who might be trying to look at red objects in the sky), it's still a concern.

Here is an explaination (be sure to check the links as well), along with a chart that show the peak absorbsions of the photopsins in your eyes.

Red would be the best for night-vision preservation, obviously, but color recognition will be crap. Red/orange or amber is probably your best choice all around. I'd probably go with red/orange myself.


I've heard that most Red LED's are too high of a wavelength to be good for preserving nightvision well. Do you know if there's any truth to this?

Also, I've heard people say that red-orange is good enough to preserve nightvision, better than other colors anyways. Do you know if there's any truth to that?

I've been through the infamous thread on this subject in the past, but never really came out with a definitive answer.
 

Planterz

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Sorry, if you're looking for a definitive answer, I can't really help you there.

The Photon red LED (nichia?) is supposed to be 630nm. Looking at the spectograph charts at the ledmuseum, it looks like most around 650nm. Going by the chart I've linked above, the black/white light detecting rhodopsin in the rods in your eyes (which are responsible for "night vision) can't detect above 600nm or so, which would be orange. But the problem with orange or red-orange would be that although the peak might be beyond the detection range of rhodopsin, there might still be some low-power wavelength light that the rods can still detect. Presumably, this could also be a problem with pure red LEDs. More likely, it's the destruction of photopsin 1 (the long wavelength/red on the chart) that causes aparent night-blindness.

You can see this when you shine LEDs into your eye. When you hit your eye with a bright light source, you see spots. These spots are where the photopsins were destroyed and need to replenish. Shine a bright, white light in your eye, and you'll see spots for quite a while. That's because rhodopsin was destroyed, and this stuff takes a while to build back up. Which is why "night vision" is best after being in darkness for .5-1.5 hours. With so much rhodopsin built up, your eyes become very sensitive to even the slightest bit of light (like a dim star you wouldn't see otherwise).

Hit yourself with a green LED, and you'll see green spots, and you'll see them for quite a while. This is because both rhodopsin in the rods, and the photopsin in the cones were both destroyed. Now try it with a red LED. You'll see red spots, but these will go away much, much quicker than the white or green spots. That's because only the photopsins in the cones were destroyed, but the rhodopsin in the rods were unaffected. For an interesting experiment, try hitting yourself with a different color in each eye (red in one, green in another, for example) at the same time. The red will go away fairly quickly, while the other color will linger for much longer, even several minutes longer (please don't shine a M3 or something in your eye, a 5mm white will do).

I don't have a red-orange or amber LED, so I can't do this experiment myself with those (just green, red, and white are handy--I'm not shining my violet or UV in my eyes).

Remember, that the photopsins in the cones work the same way as the rhodopsin in your eyes, so you can indeed blind yourself with even the longest wavelength red, but your true "night vision" will remain, and the photopsins in the cones replenish much quicker.


As for the reds themselves, I can only go by what I've read and what my dad has told me from his experience. Bright, direct red light can cause temporary spots in your eyes, and presumably, can destroy a surplus of build up in the same way night vision is gained by a build-up of rhodopsin. And although these photopsins replenish much quicker, it could still take "a while". I have no idea how long it takes, and although it's quicker than rhodopsin, it might still take several minutes to build up a "night-vision-esque" surplus.

If you were wondering how avid an astronomer my dad is, he's a master optician, has built his own telescopes for years (and for other people), was the President of the Tucson astronomy club (TAAA) for 3 years, president of clubs in CO and IL, etc, etc, etc, and is in the Guiness Book for having built the largest lens in the world. He knows his stuff. ;) If he tells me red hurts night vision, I believe it, no matter what the charts and encylopedia entries say.

In any case, red should still be the best and least damaging to your true night vision. I honestly can't say if red-orange or even amber is "OK", but it'll still be better than white or green. Green will not preserve your night vision.

If you doubt that red is the best (and only) option for truely preserving night vision, go to a star party (a gathering of astro-enthusiasts) and shine any flashlight other than red, and see how the people react. :D
 
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Planterz

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BTW, I'm not sure what to think of the quote on Photon's website about the Turquoise LED being an excellent alternative to red for preserving night vision. The 495nm wavelength is right at the peak absorbsion (detection) of rhodopsin (498nm), which logic would tell me is actually the worst color you could choose for night vision preservation. I have a turquoise Photon, and it leaves spots in my eyes nearly as long as a white LED does. Red goes away in a matter of a few seconds, but the turquoise lasts minutes before the spots fade.

My only guess is that because human eyes' peak sensitivity is 555nm (green), the greenish light of the turquoise means you can use a lower amount of light to see equally than would be required from other colors.
 
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Planterz

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Very interesting stuff indeed. I'll have to read it more when I'm in a more coherent frame of mind (I've been hanging out with Captain Morgan all night).

One thing I should mention is that most astro-nuts, even those with flashaholics as kids (such as my dad), usually do not have what would be "ideal" flashlights. Mostly you see minimags with the red lens filter, and these are hardly ideal. More recently though people are graduating to red LED lights, but "red" could be anywhere between 600-700nm, and I don't know if anybody's bothered making a true "astronomer's light" with the deepest red LEDs on the market. I've seen multi-mode LED lights that have red LEDs and are marketed as lights for astonomers, but I don't know what LEDs they use, or if they specifically chosen for this use.
 

InfidelCastro

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Planterz said:
BTW, I'm not sure what to think of the quote on Photon's website about the Turquoise LED being an excellent alternative to red for preserving night vision..



I bought a turquoise one because I thought the same, then I got rid of it and got the red...

The article says that LED's were only available in red for a long time, I thought they were also available in green and orange since about the late 60's...
 
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InfidelCastro

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Red at 700nm and lower, that sounds like what I've heard before. Too bad I can't find an LED with this wavelength.

I wonder what the wavelength is of the red LED's in the Surefire A2. I'll bet it's around 650nm or higher..
 

InfidelCastro

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Note: The red filtered light at the intensity most people use is likely decreasing night vision much more than a properly dimmed white or blue-green light would!


Interesting..
 
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I just modded my Brinkmann 2AA with NTE "Super Deep Red" LED, CAT # 30041, http://www.nteinc.com/pdf/SB_LEDs.pdf

Well, the light draws about 25% more current from the battery and it feels about 1/5 as bright. This red LED is really dim. In fact, the red LED in my cordless mouse is brighter.

This is hella gay
 

Led-Ed

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Try putting in a warm white led.I have one in a Dorcy aaa and it works great for navigating around the house in total darkness.It doesn't wake up my eyes like other colors or white.I like amber also.
 
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Ok... awesome red LED. I ripped apart an optical mouse with a broken switch and installed the LED into my Brinkmann 2AA light. BRIGHT!
 
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