Special Ops illuminatino tools

Hi all,

The other night just watching the movie Predator got me to wondering about what types of lights the real special forces might use in a situation such as an assault on a terroritst camp and then getting to a rescue chopper in a week. My guess is they'd have 100-200 lumen combat lights(LED or incan depending on 100 or 200 lumen output) on their guns and for most purposes would use night vision equipment rather than illuminate the visible spectrum.
However, what would they EDC for the mission incase they needed additional LED/Incan/HID lighting? I'm guessing a compact HID unit and some 200-300 lumen incan torches..maybe an A2 Aviator here and there and you're all set. Any other educated guesses?

EDIT :deleating smart *** comment

batman said:

Hi all,

The other night just watching the movie Predator got me to wondering about what types of lights the real special forces might use in a situation such as an assault on a terrorist camp and then getting to a rescue chopper in a week. My guess is they'd have 100-200 lumen combat lights(LED or incan depending on 100 or 200 lumen output) on their guns and for most purposes would use night vision equipment rather than illuminate the visible spectrum.
However, what would they EDC for the mission in case they needed additional LED/Incan/HID lighting? I'm guessing a compact HID unit and some 200-300 lumen incan torches..maybe an A2 Aviator here and there and you're all set. Any other educated guesses?

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Actually, the original post is pretty much accurate as far as I know. Issued gear would be high dollar Surefire, Xenonics and Maxabeam.

Personally purchased would be all over the map. Most would probably not impress the people on this forum.

I honestly don't think they'd talk much about what they carry or are equipped with.

The less the enemy knows, the better.

Tenmike, not sure what your "smart ***" comment was but thanks for re-thinking your post, however this is an honest question of curiosity and nothing more. the nationalist military types in here I thought would have lots of ideas...unless they feel flashlights are an issue of national securty.

I would often see Surefire M-series mounted on AR-15's for SWAT teams.
Dunno what special-ops would use, but they ususally get to choose their own equipment as long as it meets certain requirements.

All I know is that the US Army is issued a 2D right angle light one time in Basic Training, and after that you're on your own. Of course, I don't know anyone that actually uses that light after BT, almost everyone I saw used a Mag of some type or another.

Cool guys, thanks for the interesting responses. I feel better about buying an M-4 now

Rando said:

All I know is that the US Army is issued a 2D right angle light one time in Basic Training.

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They are not "issued" and technically are not required...but they are on the list of things that are "highly-recommended" that should be purchased at reception battalion prior to going "downrange"...

JM-99

I see alot of 6 and 9 volt millenium weaponlights over in iraq,and alot of them are purchased by the troops themselves.I was previously employed at a military surplus store that sold surefires,and military sales made up the majority of the sales.

I talked to quite a few naval special warfare guys and they get lights ade just for them straght from surefire

Jumpmaster said:

They are not "issued"...

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Times may have changed, but 13 years ago I was absolutely issued one, and was required to have it. Period.

I'm sure that things are much different now, at least in terms of what's AVAILABLE, but back in my day (early to mid 70s) we didn't have much in the way of lights.

Most people, indeed, had the Angle D lights if they had anything, some lucky guys (mostly officers and very senior NCOs managed to score some Aviator's penlights that were pretty cool if somewhat poorly constructed. Our medics usually passed out as many spare disposable 'doctors' type' penlights as they could scam.

I suppose there were a few Mini-M@g lights around, and maybe a few other store bought lights, but I really can't specifically remember seeing them.

And I built a bunch of red LED penlights for covert work for myself and my guys, and certain favored individuals who I either liked or felt the need to score 'brownie points' from. (First military application of covert LED flashlights as far as I know, although they started catching on a couple years later.)

On the occasions that we needed bright lights we used parachute flares, Illum rounds from the mortars or if we had Arty. support BIG Ilum rounds.... And very rarely, aircraft mounted searchlights.

Actually though, we very rarely used lights at all. Lights in the distance tell the bad guys someone is out there. Lights closer up make very good targets.

Most often, whatever light we operated by is whatever light the bad guys were thoughtfully providing. I rather imagine that is STILL generally the operational methodology, except that now NVE is compact and common, making visible light even more unnecessary for SpecOps.

Rando said:

Times may have changed, but 13 years ago I was absolutely issued one, and was required to have it. Period.

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Well they're not now and haven't been since at least May of 1993 (when I went in the first time).

JM-99
(Maybe that was something at your training unit that they did at the company level but ours did not and they didn't do it as of a couple of years ago either.)

Special operations do not use white lights in a tactical mission, its NVGs and IR filters. White light is a no no

I was watching a Discovery or A&E special on the USAF CCTs in Afghanistan yesterday. They were in the middle of a raging firefight calling bombs from B-52s and fighters to save their lives. The pilots were using night vision to spot targets. The CCT popped a flare to mark his position, which he said was a desperation move. They were about to be overrun by Al Qaeda until the bombs took them out. Northern Alliance soliders shielded the Americans with their bodies to keep the bombs coming.

nuggett said:

Special operations do not use white lights in a tactical mission, its NVGs and IR filters. White light is a no no

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There's a time and a place for the variety of tools. I don't think it's possible to rule out white light altogether.

Al

Night vision has its limitations. White light was never used when I was associated with the military, but that was a while ago and before urban combat training.

Because the military has police type missions, their gear and doctrine reflects what SWAT teams are doing. I talked with an LAPD SWAT firearms instructor who has taught all the major names in military and police special ops. There is a lot of crossover.

I am ex USAF CCT and except for perhaps signaling aircraft, we have little use for bright white lights. We tag along with folks with different missions, but for the most part, its IR and NVGs
I can say the DARPA light was not really favored. A Pararescue friend wished for a handsfree light to operate in medeevac UH 60 at night without disturbing the pilot.

this thread has been quite a learning experience for me. Thank again all.