Did discontinuation of old CMG IU leave a void that needs to be filled?

As many of you who are familiar with the old CMG Infinity Ultra already know, it was, perhaps, the ultimate camping/survival light. Small, tough as nails, twisty reliability, single common battery (alk, lith, or rechargeable), adquate output, and crazy long runtime. Other than not being able to stand on its end, I can't think any shortcomings. Some would argue that even version 2 wasn't bright enough, but for an outdoor survival-type light, I know from firsthand experience that it is (was) plenty bright enough to navigate for hours on end through the dark and stormy woods.

Having needlessly (in my opinion) changed the design, it doesn't appear that Gerber is interested in taking this light to the next level--which might have been, say, a brighter LED with a comparable or maybe even longer runtime. Instead, they're screwing around with some stupid "military" version that pretty much ruins the light output by eliminating the spill (according to several reviews I've read).

Okay, with that said, is there a need for someone to step in and take over where the old CMG IU left off, and taking it to the "next level"? I don't see any lights out there that qualify, and most that come close differ in one or more important respects (e.g., clickie instead of twisty, or a shorter runtime). If someone built it, would you buy it?

My CMG infinity dropped on the driveway, and I think I drove over it with my car (not positive, but likely). It left only a few scratches. When I'm ready to give it up I should test it with a bulldozer.

I'd actually use something more often that was a little brighter than that (original yellow CMG not ultra), and a slightly less bombproof but a bit lighter. I.e., with crazy runtime, an absolutely reliable switch, able to survive stomping on it with boots, but maybe not able to survive a tank.

--Walter

For me, the Civictor fills the gap and more. Same reliable front twisty, similar size and weight, very robust construction, better knurling. MUCH brighter than IU, albeit with shorter (but still good) times. Top quality construction with tempered glass window. I'll live with type II ano vs. type III and I don't mind carrying an extra battery if I'm going to wander away from civilization.

Including shipping, price for one is only a few dollars more ($22-$23 vs. not quite $30). Actually cheaper than some IU's being offered today.

If someone had offered me one of these in trade for my IU plus $8, I'd probably have gotten a paper cut trying to get my money out before he changed his mind...

Nothing will replace the CMG Infinity. I have a stash of them.

Is there any AAA light that would compete with the Infinity? I.e., very reliable and looong runtime, perhaps the same brightness and runtime proportional to battery capacity.
--Walter

Where have you been? There's a new version of the Gerber IU that is brighter. There are several recent threads about it. Look for "BBT" on the packaging.

Another candidate to fill the void is the Advancedmart 1AA 0.5W front twisty light for $12 plus shipping. It is knurled, has a glass window and reflector, and burns about twice the brightness of the old IU for about half the runtime, according to FLR.

I wasn't aware that the Gerber IU is brighter than the CMG IU. I thought they were about the same output. Some people seem to prefer the Gerber to the CMG, but I wonder if Gerber discontinued the IU, would people be snatching it up on the B/S/T 3 years from now like they still do the CMG? Having already messed up a great design (in my subjective opinion), I just don't see Gerber improving on what CMG started. Maybe they will, we'll see. In the meantime, there currently seems to be nothing that compares to the old IU package.

Nerd, the Advancedmart looks pretty good, but for me the increased output doesn't compensate for the reduced runtime. It compromises the pure "survival" utility of the CMG.

greenLED said:

Nothing will replace the CMG Infinity. I have a stash of them.

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I think I agree. If I could take only one light along in a pocket, it would probably be the CMG Infinity Ultra. It is just so simple and tough and easy to operate. But I have a couple Peak lights I might hide in a sock.

NutSAK, I found that thread on which you posted your runtime test for the Gerber IU. You mentioned that the new Gerber is twice as bright as the old CMG Infinity. But have you compared the output of the new Gerber with the old CMG Infinity Ultra?

Spordin said:

...the Advancedmart looks pretty good, but for me the increased output doesn't compensate for the reduced runtime. It compromises the pure "survival" utility of the CMG.

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I hear ya, and I sympathize. However, we should keep the run time of the old CMG IU in perspective. The 100 hour type claims I've seen are based on accepting VERY low output levels from the IU as still being good enough.

Original run time testing by Roy shows that the old CMG IUs went 11 hours to 50% and had dropped to one tenth their original output (about 0.2 or 0.3 QB lumens) after about 12 hours. True, there's a long tail after that but for me, the IU was pretty much done at 12 hours.

The advancedmart light hits the same "pretty much done" level at about 8.5 hours so it's not like there's a huge loss of run time for the increased brightness.

A 100 hour test wasn't run but the new Inova X1 (similar size, brighter, and a twisty) looks like it may have a long tail like the IU.

The old IU was great, but it shouldn't be remembered as greater than it was just because Gerber made it go away...

Spordin said:

NutSAK, I found that thread on which you posted your runtime test for the Gerber IU. You mentioned that the new Gerber is twice as bright as the old CMG Infinity. But have you compared the output of the new Gerber with the old CMG Infinity Ultra?

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Actually, I mentioned that the Gerber IU is more than twice as bright as the Infinity--the CMG IU was always said to be twice as bright as the CMG Infinity. Yes, I have compared the CMG IU I have to the Gerber IU I have, and the Gerber is brighter. Whether this is due to a design change or just a better LED, I don't know. (my CMG IU is not in my sig because my wife carries it)

I carry the Gerber IU more than I do the CMG IU because I like the clip better, I like the fact that the tail can be used for momentary on, it can tailstand for candle use, and the battery doesn't rattle around inside. Some think the Gerber is an ugly duckling compared to the clean lines of the CMG, but I carry lights to use them, not to stare at them and admire their beauty. Yes, the CMG has a more "bomb proof" construction, but I don't see how I could ever damage the Gerber (even if I run over it with my truck) so, to me, that point is moot.

I do agree that Gerber should have left well enough alone and not redesigned the light. But it's still a great light, and I'm not going to hold a grudge against them to the point of boycotting their product.

NutSAK said:

Where have you been? There's a new version of the Gerber IU that is brighter. There are several recent threads about it. Look for "BBT" on the packaging.

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I've been here all the time, and seen those reports. :nana:

It's the durability and reliability of the original design that will never come back. Brighter is not always better, IMO.

Has there been an issue with durability/reliability of the Gerber that I should be aware of?

greenLED said:

Brighter is not always better, IMO.

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I would never say nor imply that the Gerber was better than the CMG.

Maybe I should revise what I said and list the Gerber IU as the closest to what the CMG IU was. I'd still like more confirmation that the newest Gerber is actually brighter than the CMG IU. Even so, the question is, if Gerber doesn't continue to improve on its version of the IU, is there a viable niche for someone to pick up where the old CMG IU left off? I wish Arc or HDS would do a long-runtime single AA twisty along the same lines. I think it would be a steady seller, but it seems there's not a lot of interest out there in the particular niche that the CMG IU filled.

bring it back but put a small spring in the end instead of a solid pointy negative contact. I'm sick of dent bottoms on my lithium cells.

270winchester said:

bring it back but put a small spring in the end instead of a solid pointy negative contact. I'm sick of dent bottoms on my lithium cells.

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Buy a Gerber. It has springs on both ends.

Spordin, I understand where you're coming from. It seems to me that the market's new developments, in general, move in the direction of trying to provide more, better quality light rather than toward ultimate durability and super long runtime. As you stated, many people would complain that the IU is not bright enough, but I agree that it's the perfect level for dark-adjusted eyes. Some newer lights may offer two stages with a similar light level and long runtime, but don't offer the durability or at excellent price point of the IU.

Are flashlight manufacturers somewhat at the mercy of the LED manufacturers in this case? If Gerber wanted to improve the UI (assuming the "improve" would mean longer runtime and better color temperature not more output) they would need an LED that was more efficient when driven at the light level needed for the "tasklight" product. After all, there's only so much you can do to a circuit to improve its efficiency. Are any LEDs like this currently being developed?

The latest brightness claims have to do with the latest lights getting Nichia CS (or their equivalent) LED's. I don't think there is any way to tell by the package what they have, including the "BBT" marking, but the newer LED's are WAY brighter than the old ones. Unfortunately, the only way to enjoy the new level of effeciency of the new generation of LED's in a CMG light is to tear through the crimped aluminum ledge holding the pill in and pick out, hot, the epoxy potting on the circuit in order to update the LED. I'm good with my modded Gerber, and it's polished reflector. And it's tailstands, and it's clip, and it's momentary operation.

I found the same thing happening in the PT Attitudes. I got an old style on clearance, and immediately ripped it apart and stuck in 3 Nichia U-bin CS with C0 tint. I liked it well enough after the mod to buy another, new style, with the clip. It needs no mod. It is not as warm a tint as the C0's I used, but it is just as bright, just cooler.

Hondo

snowleopard said:

Is there any AAA light that would compete with the Infinity? I.e., very reliable and looong runtime, perhaps the same brightness and runtime proportional to battery capacity.
--Walter

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Arc AAA or Peak Matterhorn 1LED.

I did the same thing with a PT Attitude from the Rei outlet store when they were selling the old style "seconds" for $5. The light is excellent with Nicha CS's in it. I wasn't aware that PT switched to high output led's in their newer Attitudes. Thanks for the info.

Hondo said:

The latest brightness claims have to do with the latest lights getting Nichia CS (or their equivalent) LED's. I don't think there is any way to tell by the package what they have, including the "BBT" marking, but the newer LED's are WAY brighter than the old ones. Unfortunately, the only way to enjoy the new level of effeciency of the new generation of LED's in a CMG light is to tear through the crimped aluminum ledge holding the pill in and pick out, hot, the epoxy potting on the circuit in order to update the LED. I'm good with my modded Gerber, and it's polished reflector. And it's tailstands, and it's clip, and it's momentary operation.

I found the same thing happening in the PT Attitudes. I got an old style on clearance, and immediately ripped it apart and stuck in 3 Nichia U-bin CS with C0 tint. I liked it well enough after the mod to buy another, new style, with the clip. It needs no mod. It is not as warm a tint as the C0's I used, but it is just as bright, just cooler.

Hondo

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