Liteflux + 3.6v 2250mah Saft Li-ion?

I was thinking of running Saft 3.6Volt 14500 (AA) 2250mah Li-ion non-rechargeables in my Liteflux (one at at time). They are $1.98 each at emtcompany.com. Has anyone else tried this?

Well, I guess I will have to be my own guinea pig on this one. I ordered some of the 3.6 volt non-rechargeable AA li-ion batteries from emtcompany.com as well as some unprotected 14500's from AW with the DSD charger. I also ordered a protected 14500 battery to see if I could get it to work in the Liteflux. I might try to use the second silver ring around the Liteflux to see if it would act as a spacer for the protected 14500. The non-rechargeable 14500's should last alot longer then the rechargeable ones.

I will report if they work when I try it out myself when the batteries arrive.

I'm very interested to see how this turns out. I bought a Protected 14500 AW cell and haven't been able to get it to work. It seems to be a hair too long and I don't think the positive end is making contact. Please keep us informed. Thanks.

I don't think it will work. Those SAFT batteries are a different chemistry (lithium thionyl chloride) which have good shelf life but high internal resistance which does not allow them to provide the high current levels the liteflux or lights like it need. I think it can't put out much more than 50 mA even when shorted out.

hi cchurchi,

i agreed with what nerdgineer said. those SAFT lithiums are usually used for the PLC controllers in CNC machine. they may not be able to supply the high current needed to for the LF1 to be bright!

do let us know how it turns out.

thanks

nerdgineer is correct, the 3.7V primary lithium cell chemistry is very limited in how much current it can deliver. I tested a 3.7V AA-size TADIRAN cell in a JIL-Lite JCR2-LR (direct drive) and it could only deliver 65mA. Here is a link to the post: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1544871&postcount=101

Also see the notes about SAFT cells in the big JIL info post: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1397319&postcount=4

Luckily, I only bought one Saft AA at the price of $1.95 with free shipping. I am still hoping that I can find a way to make the protected 14500 work in the Liteflux.

vortechs said:

nerdgineer is correct, the 3.7V primary lithium cell chemistry is very limited in how much current it can deliver. I tested a 3.7V AA-size TADIRAN cell in a JIL-Lite JCR2-LR (direct drive) and it could only deliver 65mA. Here is a link to the post: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1544871&postcount=101

Also see the notes about SAFT cells in the big JIL info post: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1397319&postcount=4

Click to expand...

I need to add some information.

I just tried the TADIRAN cell with a TerraLUX TLE-5 (MiniStar 2) drop in for a MiniMag. It produced significantly more current in the boosted TLE-5 than it did in the direct drive JCR2-LR. The TADIRAN cell was able to deliver 190mA to the TLE-5. For comparison, a 3V lithium primary also delivered 190mA to the TLE-5.

Based on that, I'll say that although the 3.7V TADIRAN lithium primary cell has a high internal resistance that prevents it from delivering a lot of current to a direct drive LED light, it appears that it is capable of delivering significantly more current to a light with a boost circuit than it delivers to a direct drive LED light.

I'll be interested to hear how the SAFT cell does in the LiteFlux LF1. Since the LF1 has a boost circuit, it may do fairly well.

To confirm the results of the TADIRAN cell in light with a boost circuit, I tried it with my JIL-CR2 1.3W (with TW0J Lux-III) to see what the current it would draw.

When measured with a Fluke77III DDM using the 300mA probe, the JIL-CR2 1.3W drew about 225mA from the TADIRAN AA-size 3.6V lithium primary cell. For comparison, the current from a 3V lithium primary tested using the 300mA probe was about 275mA. Unfortunately this is too close to the max rating for the 300mA probe to be accurate, so I switched to the 10Amp probe.

Using the 10Amp probe the JIL-CR2 1.3W drew about 500mA from the TADIRAN AA-size 3.6V lithium primary cell. For comparison, the current from a 3V lithium primary tested using the 10Amp probe was about 560mA.

It appears that the TADIRAN cell is capable of providing significantly more current to a light with a boost circuit than it provides to a direct drive light, probably due to the cell's internal resistance characteristics.

(see here for more details on the test)

vortechs, thank you taking the time to experiment with TADIRAN 3.6V AA primary cell. i learned something new from your last 2 post.

i also look forward to how much current the SAFT 3.6V cell can supply to a LF1.

thanks.

cchurchi said:

I was thinking of running Saft 3.6Volt 14500 (AA) 2250mah Li-ion non-rechargeables in my Liteflux (one at at time). They are $1.98 each at emtcompany.com. Has anyone else tried this?

Click to expand...

That is a good price on a AA-size 3.6V SAFT lithium primary cell. I don't see them at http://www.emtcompany.com/ so maybe they sold out.

Did you get a chance to try the SAFT cell in the LiteFlux yet?

Yes, I received the Saft battery and tried it out. It was bright for about 2 seconds and then it became very dim. If you turn off the light for a few seconds and restart it, the cycle continues. I would not recommend using these batteries. I had high hopes but it didn't work out. That is ok though because I am now using 14500 protected rechargeables from AW. Very, very bright and best of all... Rechargeable. Although, if you are not holding the light in your hand, it gets very hot. Here is my post from the other Liteflux thread:


Well, I followed Netkids instructions which allow you to run protected 14500 Li-ion cells, and it works beautifully. I also used the silver ring from the extension tube to fill in the gap in the front part of the screw on reflector that is created when you place the wire behind the led module, which pushes the reflector forward. So now the liteflux has both silver rings on the flashlight when using 1 AA battery. I used a 1.2 mm paper clip bent into a circle for the wire spacer. To insure that the magnetic button top does not move, I attached it to the battery using Ablebond 8290 silver filled conductive die attach epoxy. It is used in the semiconductor industry to attach microchips to the packages they are mounted to. Incredibly tough stuff with a resistance of only 0.008 ohms.

I've used similar batteries (Xeno Energy, same Li-SOCL2 chemistry) in my Orb Raw Ns, and they're definitely not up to pumping the juice for these bright flashlights we like so much. Maybe around 20 lumens max.

Planterz said:

I've used similar batteries (Xeno Energy, same Li-SOCL2 chemistry) in my Orb Raw Ns, and they're definitely not up to pumping the juice for these bright flashlights we like so much. Maybe around 20 lumens max.

Click to expand...

Hi Planterz,

See my posts above.

The Orb Raw NS is a direct drive (DD) light. I had similar results when I tried the 3.6V TADIRAN lithium primary cell with a DD light (a JIL JCR2-LR). The current was only about 65mA (which is a bit more than a normal 3V primary would deliver to the DD light). The TADIRAN cell apparently has a high internal resistance that limits the amount of benefit you can get out of the higher voltage. However, when I tried the TADIRAN cell in a couple of lights with boost circuits, it delivered a lot more current (up to 500mA).

If you could try the similar cell (Xeno Energy) in your JIL 1.3W, I'd like to hear how well it works there (along with a current measurement if you can).

I don't have a Jil 1.3, just an Intelli and a 1.3UV. In the Intelli (UWOJ modded, 1000mA burst, if that matters) it's quite a bit dimmer than with a li-ion RCR2, as you'd expect, but it's only slightly less bright than the Intelli with a primary CR2. A bit supprising really. Brighter than the Orb Ns (TYAJ). In the 1.3UV it's rather pitifully dim.

I don't know if the 1.3 and the 1.3UV are directly comparable; even if they have the same driver board, the LEDs themselves are quite different. For example, a nearly-dead (1.1V) alkaline AA can still power the 1.3UV.

I don't have the equipment to test amp draws, sorry.