Scientist: Dolphins are stupid

Scientist: Dolphins are stupid

"Dolphins may have big brains, but a South African-based scientist says laboratory rats and even goldfish can outwit them."

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7FF1A9D2-FEEB-4340-A0DA-DE92AF6C49EC.htm

Interesting read! I have often wondered about why they don't jump over the nets! Without opposing thumbs and fingers as well as social conventions like we humans have, perhaps these guys never had to develope too much capacity for cognition? :thinking: I wonder how well they score on a pleasure/ pain scale compared to other animals.

This is an example of some of the iodicy that gets published as science. This guy picks out a few behaviors that he claims any intelligent creature should perform and then criticizes dolphins for not performing them. This is no more than a one question IQ test given to someone of a different culture. It's not a valid judge of anything. For every bit of nonsense like this, there are a hundred fact-based studies showing that dolphins do possess a high degree of intelligence.

You want to talk about stupid? Look at the human condition. If dolphins are unintelligent, people must be homicidal idiots bent on self destruction.

A reaction to Paul Manger's paper.

As for why dolphins don't jump over fishing nets - can't explain that ... do they ever jump out of the water to evade things? It's easy to explain why they don't jump over low walls and the like at wildlife parks - they get fed regularly and it's a safe environment.

It's a reuters article and not actually written by Al-Jazerra. Still, of all the thousand rags re-printing it today it's interesting that we were linked to their site. So if you're down on the whole propaganda thing against us and our western governments then there are plenty of places to read the same article where the propaganda is pro-western ideology

But I also think the article is kind of stupid itself. Nobody thinks that dolphins are some super intelligent race of space fairing people that just happen to be hiding out in our oceans for a while, but by the same token his choices at analogy show a casual disregard for most of what we already know about them.

but then even divorced from the endorsement by Al-Jazerra, Reuters isn't exactly Science or Nature...

Still an interesting read and thought provoking for me though I doubt the dolphin give a flying ... at a rolling .....

Heck, we have our own trailer park science here on CPF and often motive and agenda are more significant than relavance or adherence to fact.

On the 8th day, the big guy said, for fun, let there be uncertainty and confusion; and there was....... We even forgot there was an 8th day!!! :nana:

If you can't trust what you read or even what you see, what can you trust? Well, I would guess your gut, Flipper and Lassie might be a good start.



~ but I am in good company! :thumbsup:

why do whole schools of whales beach themselves.

And when helped back into the water by humans, do it all over again.:huh2:

whales are supposed to be intelligent animals with large brains.

regards.

Perhaps they are attemting to distance themselves from those stupid Dolphins.

Topper

Probably, trying to commit suicide. Humans are intelligent and also attempt/commit suicide (does require some intelligence).

TinderBox (UK) said:

why do whole schools of whales beach themselves.

And when helped back into the water by humans, do it all over again.:huh2:

whales are supposed to be intelligent animals with large brains.

regards.

Click to expand...

humans don't usually kill themselves in 20-30`s unless their trying to catch an UFO on the turn on the century, or something sensible like that.

regards.

Who is to quantify and then judge intelligence in other species within the context of their own environments? We can't even accurately do that with ourselves. We don't even know what dolphins are doing much of the time because their behaviors still elude us as they are complex and yet not random. Dolphins have even consulted each other and worked out their own routines on their own and later performed them in perfect unison. That is pretty impressive intelligence, whether they meet all our standards or we meet thiers.

TinderBox (UK) said:

humans don't usually kill themselves in 20-30`s unless their trying to catch an UFO on the turn on the century, or something sensible like that.

regards.

Click to expand...

We are poisoning their environment. Poison can cause dementia and a myriad of problems in humans and yet these creatures are supposed to bear it without consequence? They won't just die off, many other things will happen to them as well just as when people get sick.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/129527570?ltl=1156197631

The U.S. Navy is still planning on undertaking a scaled back version of their testing of Low Frequency Active (LFA) sonar in the oceans. LFA is proven to injure and destroy whales and dolphins. LFA noise is millions of times more intense than the Navy considers safe for human divers and billions of times more intense than levels known to disturb large whales.
In November, following a ruling by a Federal magistrate, the Navy scaled back its testing plans. But it hasn't scaled back sufficiently, as the sonar can seriously harm marine life. Sign now, and support a ban on such testing.
In March, 2000, during a Mid- range frequency (rather
than the Low Frequency bandwidth of LFAS) test in the Bahamas, four different species of whales and dolphins beached themselves suffering from hemorrhaging/bleeding in the ears. A National Marine Fisheries Service and Navy investigation determined the deaths were almost certainly caused by the LFA test. A follow-on study in February 2001, determined that at least one of those whale species no longer existed in the area.
Mid-range frequencies are already in use world-wide, and are now proven to be very dangerous in certain circumstances. The LFAS system is even more dangerous, as the sounds will propagate farther and be disabling at a greater distance.
Whales rely on their sensitive hearing for survival. A whale cannot survive without its hearing. The Navy's attempts to deploy LFA could result in the extermination of whales and dolphins world wide.

Maybe it's just me but with some of the things humans do (war, polluting the environment, procreating beyond the carrying ability of the land just to name a few) maybe we're the stupidest species on the planet. Maybe the dolphins are capable of creating a technological society but after seeing all the problems it creates decided to just leave good enough alone. Ironically, until man came along they were pretty much at the top of the food chain unless they ran into a school of killer whales. I think it's the height of arrogance to assume that all forms of higher intelligence must have thinking processes similar to our own in order to be considered intelligent. Sure, even an insect will try to escape a container, only to be promptly squished by a shoe upon leaving. Certainly not smart behavoir in my book.

While I think it's perfectly valid to study such things and to do some testing, the whole social commentary that followed is what makes this a silly paper.

Topper said:

Perhaps they are attemting to distance themselves from those stupid Dolphins.

Topper

Click to expand...

whooaa... didn't mean for this to take a political twist. Just thought article was interesting and apeared to be science based.

barely noticed site linked to was Aljazeera. it was simply the first place I found this article. it could have been easily this:
http://www.governmentsecurity.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22808

Nikon had it right. There are many expressions of intelligence. If you get to feeling especially smug about your own intelligence, challenge a rat to a maze-solving competition, a fairly typical experiment. The rat is going to beat you. And then all the other rats can laugh about how stupid people are. And they'd be right, at least until they got to the essay test.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If there is no need there will be no invention, at least most of the time. I think there is knowledge and understanding and interactions based on this that can't be measured by our concept of relative intelligence let alone be held in conscious thought. There are zen masters and martial arts experts who can physically demonstrate that which is in conflict with our intelligence and conscious knowledge and understandings. What is so great about intelligence if it can't begin to embrace or answer some of the most simple BIG questions? Intelligence is a great tool that man has developed for good as well as destruction. Dolphin can't play slide key guitar or even a piano. They must be stupid. My greatest concern is that the planet may not be able to host the ego of man.



~ So long and thanks for the fish! (or words to that effect?)