I spoke to a local LEO the other day...

Well it was interesting to say the least
"What flashlights do most of you guys use?"
Stinger he replied
Why? i asked
cause stream light is the best on the market
Have you ever heard of surefire?
Sure what?
Yea surefire a premier military tactical flashlight company!
Well son, (he is in his fiftys im 31) there are alot of companys out there trying to sell stuff to us but most of these thangs are gadgets and how many gadget are you going to be able to carry before you loose them all in a foot chase?
Ok sir point taken but u ought to check them out.
end of conversation

im sorry to say that i have just ordered my e2e and wish that i had it to show him what the baby of the pack can do. he now is in public relations and doesn't carry a light. I did have my inova x5 with me and he made the mistake of pointing it at his face when he turned it on... After his neck cracked from the head snap, he acted unimpressed and was still trying to compare the leds to 5 little incadesant lamps. and said that if one went out at least you would have four backups!!!!

Some of our law enforcement community still needs some education don't you think??

Now only if i had my lambda direct drive 3d 3c in 2d mag with focused overdriven heatsinked luxeon to let him stare into and turn on...


Comments please
sincerely

This is a little bit amusing, comsidering my chosen profession has me in the dark, most of the time...My main duty light is an Ultrastinger, secondary light is (currently) a G2...A majority of officers use a Stinger or Streamligh SL-20...I know of only two officers at my station who use a SF as a primary light. Surefires are NOT duty lights, they are tactical lights.

Most officers use a Stinger because they work: they're cheap to maintain, are very durable, and bulbs (and battery sticks, if needed) are easily obtained.

I would have to agree, and say the SF lights are overpriced.

--dan

It's difficult for an elitist like myself, but I do try to give a lot of weight to the opinions of someone who has to do the job everyday. Surefires may be better for me, but I don't find it that difficult to believe that Streamlights work better for many LEOs. They do the job, they're less expensive, beam may not be perfect but it's good enough, etc. Were I on a tight budget (i.e., not the budget of your typical internet gadget geek) and had to use my light every day -- ala an LEO -- I'd probably choose an inexpensive-but-reliable bright rechargeable as my duty light. Streamlights fit the bill.

Joe

I have to agree that Streamlights are the main carry for many Depts. I used to carry the SL20 and on more that one ocassion went through a couple a night (others brought out spares, no backup batteries). I can not imagine trying to cover the cost on SFs 123 cells. Night after night. The only way to go is rechargable. Now, with use of force complaints the Stinger is the way to go.

That said, I too use a UltraStinger daily and carry the E2 as backup.

I did just get a nifty yellow G2 but it just sits here by the computer waiting and waiting.

The G2 with fresh SF123As can wait almost a Decade and still give you fantastic output. It's yellow so even under the dust, you'll spot it. Stand it Bezel down and the Lexan will last...

Al

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by redbird:
...I used to carry the SL20 and on more that one ocassion went through a couple a night (others brought out spares, no backup batteries). I can not imagine trying to cover the cost on SFs 123 cells. Night after night. The only way to go is rechargable.
That said, I too use a UltraStinger daily and carry the E2 as backup...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True or false:

Voltage regulated Surefires will give at least 2 or 3 times longer BRIGHT burntime. This will give Surefire a greater toehold in the LEO community.

Brightnorm

We got two guys at the station who use 8Xs. They love em.

The reason I don't have a SF rechargeable is the fact that the light must be partially dissasambled to put a fresh stick in. SL has charger contacts on the body/bezel. Just slip it in the charger. More convinient.

10X I do like, but from what I hear, it is very fragile.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aragorn:
im thinking of going into a life of crime with my light cannon. cover the head util someone walks by then blind them take their money and run. and what cop can follow you if hes blind to?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try it and let's know the reault. Don't worry, State Prison should have facility to access the Internet

Alan

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alex cooper:
We got two guys at the station who use 8Xs. They love em.

The reason I don't have a SF rechargeable is the fact that the light must be partially dissasambled to put a fresh stick in. SL has charger contacts on the body/bezel. Just slip it in the charger. More convinient.

10X I do like, but from what I hear, it is very fragile.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alex, I agree with you about the charging method of 8X and 9an. This is one of major reason I left my 9AN in the drawer for quite sometime now.

For 10X, from what I hear, it *looks and feels* fragile, but did anyone actually break a 10X. I dropped my 10X a few times and haven't got any problem yet (touch wood).

Alan

these dudes are all like that. swat freind of mine says sf is over priced. i said thats true until ya own one- he laughed.
im thinking of going into a life of crime with my light cannon. cover the head util someone walks by then blind them take their money and run. and what cop can follow you if hes blind to?
no offence leos you all make life safe for the rest of us and i appreciate it. thanks

I have a question for those who like the idea of being able to charge the battery in the light. When you are doing so, you don't have use of the light. If you have two batteries, you can have one battery charging, and still be able to use the light. Isn't this an advantage over having no light at all if your battery is dead?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alan:
... For 10X, from what I hear, it *looks and feels* fragile, but did anyone actually break a 10X. I dropped my 10X a few times and haven't got any problem yet (touch wood).

Alan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I keep seeing posts which allege that the 10X is, or at least looks fragile, but I haven't yet seen anyone actually post a real-life *problem* about it's durability.

The Polymers that SF use are very strong, judging by the Nitrolon series.
I can't imagine SureFire actually going against their policy and releasing a *delicate* light - that just isn't "The SureFire Way" ......

On the 9AN, or whatever it's model number/s is/were: about a year ago, I saw a listing on one of the Internet sales sites which gave about a dozen options for that model. They seemed to cover the possibilities of charging while the battery was in the light, outside the light, and I don't know what else. Perhaps SF decided to streamline the product range by cutting down the options.

The previously discontinued 9P and 6R are back in the 2002 range - so maybe sometime in the future some 9## options will be revived ?

lightlover

The Streamlight vs Surefire debate!

Sometimes you go with what works and what is dependable. You cannot beat years of reliable performance.

I read here (do searches yourself) about the short run time and bulbs going out on Surefires. I am sure they are relatively "isolated" incidents, but still they happen. I do NOT see similar posts here about Streamlight.

My next door neighbor is a Night Police officer (Patroll Car) for HPD in a "bad" section of Houston. He depends on his Streamlight every night, and he swears by his Streamlight Ultrastinger.

Am I (a flashoholic, but NOT a Law Inforcement Professional) going to tell him that he should give up his Streamlight, that he trusts his very life with, to use a SureFire? NO! That is his decision.

My point is that you can't fault people for using a quality product that has a proven track record and they have years of personal experience that it is reliable. He depends on his Streamlight with his very life. He has been using it for years. Is it the right tool for him? YES.

You know, there are lots of organizations that STILL use mainframes. You know, the IBM 3090's and 3270's and VAXes using RS232 (serial port!) connections with dumb terminals etc. Now we all know, that a 100 MHz 486 with an EISA bus could blow away a Mainframe (not to even mention a Fastwide SCSI RAID 5 7200 rpm hard disk drive array with Dual P4s running at 2 gig with 2 gig of RDRAM and PCI 2.1 slots with Ethernet cards running 1 GIG ethernet!). So why do organizations still use Mainframes? Because they have a proven track record, and they spent years fine tuning the applications!

Don't be too hard on somebody for sticking with what works!

I got a "lecture" from a friend who is a LEO, about what gun to purchase. I basicly asked him what gun should I buy for home protection. He gave me a 45 minute speech about guns, revolvers vs automatics, different calibers, the fact that you should continusly practice with your gun, keep it clean (not just clean it and forget it, but break it down on a regular basis and re-clean it, even if it was not shot), how a high power gun has a recoil effect whereas a low power gun does not. He asked me if I was going to practice shooting on a regular basis, are you going to clean your gun regularly. He had lots of suggestions. I told him that he should teach a course on gun ownership for home owners. He did not want to tell me what to get, but I infered from his lecture that for me, a 22 revolver might be a good gun to get. No recoil, (you can get a second shot in faster, and more accurately), more reliable than an automtic, easy to shoot if you have not shot for a long time etc. Who would think that a lowly 22 revolver would be "better" than a 9 mm GLOCK auto?

Now, any good LEO should be "on top" of his field, and should do research. A LEO should be at least AWARE of SureFire's.

I know that a lot of SureFire users "trust their lives" with SureFire also.

edited after original post:
-----------------------------
I am not implying that Streamlight is better than SureFire, or that SureFire is better than Streamlight. I am saying that if someone has years of experience with a product, and likes the product, why change?

Please tell anyone that has EVER* had a problem with the 10X to contact SureFire.

I am not talking about the bulbs that were a problem. This has been resolved.

The 10X physically is made from mostly Nitrolon and HA Aluminium. Both these materials have been proven tough, resistant to abuse, use, and in some cases, children as young as three (under supervision)

The Switch and battery have been designed to be used for years, and the build quality throughout the 10X is SureFire to the detail.

Please show the forum proof of the 10X's "fagile" nature or stop calling it that.

Sure, I had doubts - it's big, it's strange, but from all my research, from my experience of carrying a 10X, from talking to an LEO that has tested the 10X for a year, discussing it with PK, and Ken, I can only conclude the 10X just as tough as other flashlights, and worthy to be a SureFire.

Al

I work for SureFire so there is an inherent perceived bias (and there probably is!) and I endeavor to always keep that in mind.

That being said, I had dinner here at the Shot Show 2002 with one of the SureFire Institute's adjunct instructors, Bill Murphy.

The following quoted by permission.

Bill has years of experience with Huntington Beach PD in patrol and SWAT operations.
He has been a Gunsite instructor for quite sometime, has his own quite successful firearms training business and has multiple shootings under his belt. Bill studies several martial arts and is well respected in the Southern California region.

Last year we gave Bill a 10X dominator for field-testing. It is our 2-stage, 60-500 lumen duty flashlight. He used to carry an SL-20.

He told me that for years he had an average of 15-20 reportable uses of force annually.
Bill is proactive to say the least. He is mild mannered, friendly, but will be there for fellow officers in a heartbeat.

Anyway, I was absolutely surprised when he told me that last year he had ZERO reportable uses of force…ZERO.

He said he had been in just as many similar situations, but EVERYTIME he illuminated with the higher output light, the situation moved in the lower use of force direction.
He absolutely attributed this zero number to the proper use of the 10X.

He stated the he has used his SL-20 many times as a defensive impact weapon, and was wondering how the 10X would fare in the same capacity. He said never perceived a situation that would justify using the 10X in that role, so he could not provide data.

Now there are many contributing factors to any given situation and use of force, but this is notable in my opinion.

I am going to give 10, 10X's to him to distribute to his more active officers. In return, I am asking them to give me a month-by-month report of use of force activity. It will be easy to corrolate data and compare in to previous years.

I have also started a nation-wide study with a pool of officers to evaluate results.

Finally, I would like to say that I am always a bit amazed that an officer will skimp on a good light. That is, X officer knows that this light is better than that one, but will not step up to the plate to protect his own life or someone elses because it costs more. A good light can save your life period. Not seeing something, or misindentifying a person can lead to a tragic result.

Why by a parachute based on price?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous ?:
Yeah, I keep seeing posts which allege that the 10X is, or at least looks fragile, but I haven't yet seen anyone actually post a real-life *problem* about it's durability.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is exactly what I want to say. I think the first post was from a well respected member that 10X gives him a fragile look and I don't blame him. I have the same feelings too due to its big head . However, this fragile *looks* eventually comes to *it is fragile* after other readers misinterpreted his original post.

That's why I would like to see if any reasonable evidence to prove its fragileness. After having used 10x for a few months, I found that it's as solid as any Sure Fire I have. The only complain about the 10x is its lack of holster (I have one now ).

Alan

Unicorn,

Excellent point and I think that Streamlight is better addressing the issue than SF, at least this year.

Wherever the SF v. SL debate takes people, I don't recall ever seeing a post that DID NOT like SL's convenient charging method. If one looks at the SL site, they are now offering their Piggyback charging system. This charges the light and a spare battery at the same time which, for now, seemingly settles the charging issue, leaving the beam quality v. price issue to rage on!

As always ken, sound advice. I'm a UK paramedic and use a my G2 now most of the time when on night duty. Having used the service issue 3D Maglite which is OK for years I respect its build quality but in reality it is big cumbersome and heavy.

When I am on duty and need a light to go places without any illumination or when I enter a building where things are a 'bit iffy' I know that I can reach for the G2 and it will do the job.
The fact is that because SF developed tactical lights which are so small compared to others means that I now have on me at all times a reliable light. The cost of bulbs and 123's is expensive (and I have to buy them myself) but I now wouldn't trust my safety at nights to anything else.
If I were working as a LEO in the States I would have to say that my safety would be a secondary consideration to cost! Accordingly it is very interesting to hear about the use of the 10x to diffuse the need for lethal force and I think it will make an interesting study over the next year.

Respectfully

Doug

I know of atleast one 10X being used by a Police Officer in the MET - I've heard only positive reports about it.

From what I can gather about LEOs is that the most important thing is for them and their partners to return safely to their families at the end of the shift.

With the 10X, Bill told me that he can take control of situations, or better; stop incidents before they happen.

Al