Fa&Mi Lights & M6 Comparisons..... Pictures too!

Kenshiro

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Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
255
Hey Guys!
Sorry for the wait.
I got my M6 last week, and I've been trying out different configurations and comparisons. I've been experimenting with my digicam as well. Trying to get the best shot.....

Oh, and before I forget.....MR TED BEAR! POST HERE!

Mr Ted Bear was here and we did some comparisons together. He brought his LC100 with him. As well as a bunch of his other toys. Man, this guy has everything.....
All in all, we had a lot of fun. He took most of the shots of the lights themselves, and he should be posting soon.

As for the shots comparing the beams.....
I stayed up another 2 hours trying to get good comparison shots of the actual beams, and I must stress an important point.
I experimented with the exposure to get the shot that was close to what our actual eyes see. As you all know, you can't get it perfect. There simply isn't a lens out there that can "see" quite like our eyes can.
Because of this, one can actually "trick" someone. For instance,
1) By over-exposing an image, you can make the light threshold so low that anything above that light level will all seem white.
To put it simply, you can make a dimmer light seem almost as bright as a brighter one. So you could make an E2 seem to be as bright as a D3 or something.
2) By under-exposing, you can do the opposite. You can make a bright light seem very dim.

Anyway, though my pictures might seem a bit dark, it's the best representations of the lights and how they compared. But as I mentioned, they are not 100% accurate, so I will try to add some commentary to help. I'll also give you examples of this "trick".

Anyway, instead of posting everything at once, I will post one comparison at a time.
I will start the first tomorrow.
It'll be the "RAY vs. M6".....

In the meantime, here's a snapshot of the lights together. Since a lot of you don't have any of these lights, I've also added a 2D Mag (for size comparison), since we've all seen a 2D Mag.

Enjoy!

all1.jpg
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Kenshiro, will you be using the 2001 with the available 100 watt xenon bulb? I think this gives apx 20 minutes run time with this light? (That would be comparable run time to the M-6, wouldn't it? )
(edit) ok, I reread your earlier posts, and see you say using the 100 watt instead of the 50 watt causes thermal shut down, though you can still use it...and so would the '500 lumen' N-62 bulb shut down my SF 12pm, I'm told, though I have never run it long enough to do that...how much runtime would you get with the 100 watt xenon, I'm wondering..?
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Your new torches look awesome.What is this anticorodal anodised finsh like?Also how does the on/off switch work?What are the chargers like?
 

Mr Ted Bear

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Close up of ray

8856374-47b2-028001E0-.jpg


close up of 2001

8856382-922b-028001E0-.jpg


What is this anticorodal anodised finsh like?

While the Fa&Mi lights don't have the look and feel of the Surefires, one can tell while handeling the lights that they are first quality. As as dive light, they are built more like a humvee

Also how does the on/off switch work?

The switches are electo magnetic. The black collar is slid towards the bezel (unlock), and then, rotating the collar activates the light. Also, there is a adjustable "set" screw on the collar to adjust the tension when rotating the collar

What are the chargers like?

Not much to tell... intelligent 4 hour, auto switching to trickle charge (excellent, no worry about overcharging) Note: 220 volts so one needs a step-up transformer

Very easy to connect the charger to the torch. Removing the tailcap, exposes a female goldplated rca/phono jack

8856395-bfa4-028001E0-.jpg
 

Kenshiro

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Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
255
***RAY & M6
Alright guys,
Here's what you've been waiting for. Hope it was worth the wait.

I used the MN20 (250lm) in the M6 for this comparison.
Why? Because the run times are similar. 65 mins for the RAY, and 60 mins for the M6.
It wouldn't be a "similar" comparison if I used the MN21 (500lm). The MN21 is supposed to be used for a short period of high-intensity light (20 mins).
For the MN21, a 40W bulb for the RAY would have been the correct bulb for a "proper" comparison. Unfortunately, I don't have one.

BUT.....
I figure you'd still be interested in how the RAY fared against the MN21 anyway, so I will post a pic and comment on that as well.

So here goes.....

A) RAY vs. M6 w/MN20 (RAY02.jpg)
The RAY
Bulb: 20 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 65mins. Rated lumens: 480
The M6 (MN20)
Bulb: 15 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 60mins. Rated lumens: 250
First, the verdict:
1) The M6 has a brighter hot spot.
2) The RAY has more light output.

Sorry, but I only have a underexposed picture of this comparo. But as you can see, the above holds true.

RAY-M6-01.jpg


B) RAY vs. M6 w/MN21 (RAY01.jpg, RAY03.jpg)
The RAY
Bulb: 20 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 65mins. Rated lumens: 480
The M6 (MN21)
Bulb: 30 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 20mins. Rated lumens: 500
The verdict:
1) The M6 has a brighter hot spot.
2) The light output is close, but the M6 still has more.

The first picture shows an overexposed photo of the two lights. This picture is closer to how bright these lights actually illuminate the room (they are REALLY bright!). However, the center beams are a bit exaggerated.
Judging just from this picture, you would think the RAY is clearly brighter (this is the "trick" I was talking about). But that's not entirely accurate.

RAY-M6-03.jpg


That's why I need to show you the next picture, which is an underexposed photo of the same scene. The underexposed photo is quite dark, but it does portray the center beam brightness a bit more accurately.

RAY-M6-02.jpg


Oh, and here's some interesting photos. Both are overexposed.
One is a photo of the LC100 and the M6 (MN21). The second is the RAY and the M6 (MN21). Same angle.
Remember, the LC100 is rated at 450lm..... But it seems to be WAY dimmer than the 500lm M6, right?
But the RAY, which is rated at 480lm, seems pretty close, doesn't it?
So, I guess the Fa&Mi lights are quite close to their advertised lumen rating.

LCM6.jpg


RAYM6.jpg


Tomorrow, the 2001 vs. M6!
And yes, I will be making comparisons with the 100W bulb as well.
 

JB

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Joined
Mar 27, 2001
Messages
298
Finally, a review of the FA&MI lights!! I've read about them before and they look way cool. Really keen on getting one but couldn't find any user reviews in the past. So thanks a lot to kenshiro and Ted for posting this.

Okay, a few questions about the Ray:

1. Does the light have a thermal shutdown? Can you run it continuously for the full 65 mins if needed?

2. Standard bulb is 20W right? Any upgrades to a higher power bulb? How much are the bulbs? Any idea about bulb life?

3. Is the focus adjustable or fixed?

4. Where can you buy the Ray from?

Thanks!
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Kenshiro,Mr Ted Bear

Great review!!!
You have really found a gem.
Can hardly wait for tomorrows review.
 

Kenshiro

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Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
255
JB,

There was a long discussion about these lights in the thread called "What is the best dive light on the market?"

I posted some long commentaries on these lights.

You will find all of your answers there.

Enjoy!
 

Kenshiro

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
255
***2001 & M6

I used both the MN20 and MN21 this comparison. Because I have corresponding bulbs for the 2001 as well.

So here goes.....

A) 2001 (50W) & M6 (MN20)
The 2001
Bulb: 50 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 60mins. Rated lumens: 1600
The M6 (MN20)
Bulb: 15 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 60mins. Rated lumens: 250
First, the verdict:
1) The hot spots are close in brightness, but the M6 hot spot is more pronounced, probably because the ambient light of the M6 is much less than that of the 2001. Also, the hot spot size is larger on the 2001.
2) The 2001 clearly has more light output.

Again, I don't have any overexposed photos, but believe me, they REALLY light up the room.
Here's the underexposed picture to show the center beams.

2001-M6-01.jpg


B) 2001 (50W) & M6 (MN21)
The 2001
Bulb: 50 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 60mins. Rated lumens: 1600
The M6 (MN21)
Bulb: 30 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 20mins. Rated lumens: 500
The verdict:
1) The hotspots are close in brightness. But you can see the M6 hotspot has grown to a similar size as the 2001 (compared to when it was using the MN20).
The M6 has a bright hot spot, then a small "corona", then the ambient light.
The 2001 has a similar hot spot, then a larger "corona, then a much larger "ambient 1", a slightly less "ambient 2", and then the "normal ambient light.
2) The 2001 clearly still has more light output.

2001-M6-02.jpg


C) 2001 (100W) & M6 (MN21)
The 2001
Bulb: 100 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 25mins. Rated lumens: 3600
The M6 (MN21)
Bulb: 30 W Xenon-Halogen, Run time: 20mins. Rated lumens: 500
The verdict:
1) Again, the hotspots are close in brightness. But you can clearly see that the 2001 is giving off a very large amount of light. REMEMBER, THIS IS THE M6 NEXT TO IT! It's hard to imagine once you really put that into your mind. I mean, I remember seeing photos on the CPF of the M6 making other lights look so small and dim. But this time..... wow.....
2) light output? Come on..... do I really need to tell you this one?

To give you a better idea of how much light the 2001 with the 100W bulb gives out, I've added a second photo below of a overexposed shot.

Low exposure

2001-M6-03.jpg


High exposure

2001-M6-04.jpg


Alright now!
Hope you enjoyed the comparisons.....
Let the comments begin!!!!!
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
kenshiro,

The 2001 is the most incredible dive light I
have ever seen.I scuba dive often at night.
One of my favorite dive sites is Kona,where I dive with giant mantarays.A very powerful dive light is important due to the fact,that the light atracks plankton in which mantarays feed.Hence more plankton more mantarays.

I can definitly see myself on my next trip to Kona this year with the 2001.

Is it possible to separate the light assembly from the battery housing.So that perhaps a HID assembly could be put on.
Looking at the FA@MI catalog http://www.fa-mi.com/catalogo/catalogo2002.html looks like this may be possible.This could be a very modular system.What do you think?

Could you elaborate on the light cannon
comparison.The light cannon looked very anemic.Thanks again for an outstanding evaluation!!!
 

Kenshiro

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Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
255
Mantamet,

Unfortunately, the 2001 is not modular.
The Ray, Spitlight, and the 2001 are the only non-modular lights of the Fa&Mi line.

The confusion about the 2001's modularity comes from the fact that the 2001's battery can be used seperately. This is sort of misleading because you can think you can take the battery off of the 2001. You can't.
What they mean by the "2001 battery" is the actual battery, without the casing.
Let me elaborate a bit further.....
The "2001 battery" is a 12V, 4.3Ah Hydrogen-NiMH battery unit. This can be bought as a seperate unit to be used with a modular system (This is what they call the "2001 BAT+"). Two of these units can even be joined together to give you twice the capacity.
If you buy the "2001 light", you get the same battery, but the head unit and body are one. You can, however, connect a seperate "2001 battery" unit to the back of this light as well, to give you twice the capacity.

If you want a modular light system with an HID option (Solar 12, 30, or 66), you must get a 12V battery and a head unit.

The head unit should be simple. You just get the amount of light you want. Of course, the 66 would be the easy choice, but if you dive for very long durations, the 30 might be the better choice.

As for the battery, you've basically got three choices:
1) The 2001 battery: 12V, Hydrogen-NiMH, 4.3 Ah, ~1.4kg, 4h recharge
2) The 2000 battery: 12V, Pb-Acid, 7.2Ah, ~4.2kg, 12h recharge
3) Slim Video battery: 12V, Hydrogen-NiMH, 8.6Ah, ~3.5kg, 4h recharge

If you check out the new 2002 catalog, which I'm sure you did, your choices are narrowed down to something on page 5, 6, or 9. The run times for each head unit with each battery is well described, so I'll skip it here.

later.
 

Kenshiro

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
255
Oops, almost forgot to answer your last question.

To be honest, the light cannon simply did not have the light output of either the RAY or the M6 (I won't even mention the 2001). After all, even though it has an HID, it's only a 10W HID. You can't expect too much from this little bulb. Kind of like the automotive saying "there's no substitute for cubic inches".

Also, the light from the LC100 was very diffuse compared to the other lights. The M6 was clearly very focused, the RAY and the 2001 had a relatively tight center, with more ambient light than the M6. The LC100 was quite even all-around. This is not a bad thing, however. In fact, if your diving, you'll probably prefer the even light pattern of LC100. The Fa&Mi comes with a choice of reflectors that will make the light very diffuse or very focused (except for the RAY and Spitlight -- they only have one choice). When I bought mine (last year), I only got the 15 and 110 degree reflector. They didn't have the 5 degree reflector like they do now (darn!). So the pictures you see are from the 15 degree.

However, the light cannon DOES have a whiter light. As was metioned in the dive light thread, this will play a part in your eye's "perception of brightness".

So, the LC100 is also a great light. It's diffuse and even beam, high color temp, and long run time make it a great dive light. For a tactical light, however, no way. It takes the LC100 at least 30 seconds just to warm up to full brightness! So, comparing lights is fun, but to compare the LC100 to the M6 in a "direct" comparison is kind of misleading. I mean, the M6 would be a lousy dive light, right? But it's not a dive light! It's a tactical light. And a super one at that.

They both do their job well.

As for the Fa&Mi's, I think they're great. like Mr Ted Bear said, they are built like HUMVEEs.
Judging from what is given on the spec sheets, the 12W HID with a diffuse reflector should be similar to the LC100. But the Fa&Mi looks a lot cooler, I think.

As for the Solar 30, or better yet, the 66, all I can say is.....WOW..... you will have one heck of a light! I mean the 66 will be even brighter than the 100W bulb, with almost twice the run time! And a whiter beam!
WOW.....
Double WOW.....

Let us know what you decide to do!
 

JB

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Joined
Mar 27, 2001
Messages
298
kenshiro...

Thanks for pointing me to the other thread. Yup, got most of the answers there. Boy, I'm drooling for the 35W bulb (that should be a real night blaster!).

Anyway, I don't remember seeing anything about Q1 on thermal shutdown (maybe it's my vision). What's the longest time you have turned the Ray on? Did the torch feel very warm to the touch?

Would you say the Ray has a long range beam? I know it's not as tight as the M6 but I hope it can light up targets far away. I'm using the UltraStinger now, which reaches far but I still want more light!
smile.gif


You're lucky to have the Ray and 2001.
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Just got word from Bruno that the 2001 runs for 20-25 minutes with the 100 watt xenon/halogen bulb, without any thermal shut down...
(...so let's see it !
shocked.gif
cool.gif
)
 

lightlover

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Messages
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Location
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kenshiro:
... But the Fa&Mi looks a lot cooler, I think.

As for the Solar 30, or better yet, the 66, all I can say is.....WOW..... you will have one heck of a light! I mean the 66 will be even brighter than the 100W bulb, with almost twice the run time! And a whiter beam!
WOW.....
Double WOW.....

...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kenshiro, I can't find any reference to the Solar's on the website - where are they please ?

lightlover
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
kenshiro...

What is the color temp on your the ray and 2001?
In the catalog( http://www.fa-mi.com/catalogo/catalogo2002.html )they show a 2001 with a color temp of 4100 degrees
do you know what type of bulb this is?
4100 is about as white as most of the automotive HID headlights you've seen.

I have desided to get a 2001+ pack with the
solar 30(need the extra burn time)
I have emailed Bruno, having problems getting a price.Due you think you can email
him since you are an established scubamarket
customer.Let me know.Thanks!
 

Kenshiro

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Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
255
Whoo boy.....
Lots of questions.....
I'll try to answer them in order.

First, JB.
JB, the thermal shutdown only occurs when I use the 100W bulb in the 2001 OUT OF THE WATER.
The 2001 even with the 100W bulb, should work fine UNDERWATER.
As for the RAY or the 2001 with the 50W bulb, no thermal shutdown whatsoever. Whether on land or underwater.
The lights don't seem to get any warmer than any other comparable light.
I would think that the Ultrastinger would have a farther reach. But I haven't tested that.
If you look at the beam photos, the RAY doesn't have a super hot spot like the M6 or the US.
After all, like I mentioned before, it is only a 15 degree reflector. If you use the new 5 degree reflector, I'm sure it'll reach farther and also be brighter at the same time.
Note, however, that you can't use the 5 degree on the RAY. It comes with the 15 degree reflector.
And yes, I am lucky to have them both.

Next, Joe.
Joe, check out the "What is the best dive light on the market?" thread.
I have posted the web site of the reseller (Scuba Market), and they have very good prices right now.

Next, Ted the Led.
Ted, like I mentioned above, that is only true if you use it underwater. If you use it in the air, the light will shutdown after about a minute. Then about 20 seconds later, you can turn it on again, but then another minute later it'll shut off again, and such..... It's a cycle.
1 min till shutdown, 20 seconds to cool down. Remember, I have this light! I have tried it!

Next, something ridiculous.
Something ridiculous, click on the link below your post written by Mantamet.

Next, Mantamet.
Mantamet, the color temp. that I have on my lights are as listed on the catalog.
3800K for the RAY, 3400K for the 2001.
They didn't have the 4100K HL bulb for the 2001 last year.
I'll be honest, I am not 100% sure what the bulb is, but judging from the catalog pictures of the profiles of the bulbs, my guess is that it is a H1 automotive light bulb.
PIAA's Extreme White or Osram's Silver Star series both have a color temp. of about 4100K or so.
2001+ battery pack plus the Solor 30? Great combo.
Are you sure you won't want the more than double output of the Solor 66 later on, though?
As for the price, my guess is that the catalog just came out, and Fa&Mi might not be shipping the lights yet or something.
You know, kind of like none of the Surefire dealers have prices for the E1e, E2e yet, even though the catalog is out. The only way to get the E2e right now is to order directly from Surefire. That's probably what's going on with Bruno and Mauro. They probably just don't have the prices or the merchandise yet.
Just be patient, they are very good, and wouldn't make you wait for no reason.
Why don't you ask them if that's the case?
Anyway, good luck. And let me know when you get the light.
 
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