LED Tint

UnknownVT

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Most here know well about the Luxeon "lottery" - and how it can affect the tint of the flashlight.

There are lots of people (including me) who accept varying tints - especially on lesser LEDs (eg: 5mm) - but conversely some can become fussy over Luxeon tints (I can be one of those too....).

Luxeon bins can help - but often we do not know tint of the Luxeon in a flashlight - hence the lottery. I have also heard that even within the same tint-bin there can be noticable variations.

The recent talk of the green'ish tint of some Fenix L1T's made me go back and look at some of the tints of the "Lux" lights I've collected over the years.

Just eye-balling them and comparing side-by-side under all sorts of ambient conditions - eg: nightime with room lights on and off - and during the daytime indoors and outdoors.

I found the ambient lighting can make a difference - normal room lighting makes almost any LED look blue/cool - and surpringingly as does day/sunlight.

This comes down to the fact the eye/brain will often compensate for variations in tint - and we tend to see what "we want to see"....

Side-by-side comparisons although seems more objective - often is much, much more critical than real-life - minor differences which will often go unnoticed are sometimes over-exaggerated when compared side-by-side.

Tint does come down to personal taste - I understand there are lots who like a "pure-white" or what I call a white-white. However what appears to be pure-white to me often will look cool blue-ish when compared to day/sunlight.

LEDs that appear less blue compared to day/sunlight - often will seem warm/yellow/pink-ish (with even a hint of green sometimes) in comparison with white-white.

I find that warmer tinted LEDs which seem "neutral" and free of any other tint than being "sunny" will often exhibit some green when shone on wood or corrugated cardboard - they also seem to show this green when photographed.

After all this pre-amble - I looked at my LED/Lux lights and of all the lights my favorite tint(s) remain with the very first "Luxeon" lights I bought - the S1801 1w Luxeon 1xCR123 - I liked it enough I ended up with two - the second one I think is marginally better than the first - but I often vacillate between the two - and I don't even think the LED is a real Luxeon - it is probably an early "clone" - nevertheless I like their tints because they are by far the closest I get to day/sunlight.

For my side-by-side comparison beamshots I used a Canon PowerShot A610 set on 3Mp, ISO50, and fixed Daylight White balance - evaluation metering to "optimize" the full exposure, then one at -2 stops underexposed from that.

The lights -
FenixL1T_S1801Sz.jpg


Heads -
FenixL1T_S1801Hds.jpg


S1801 1w Luxeon 1xCR123 (1) vs. (2)
S1801.jpg
S1801U2.jpg


I also like the tint of the sample of one Fenix L1T I have it is most comapable on Low to the S1801 -
FenixL1TL_S1801_1.jpg
FenixL1TL_S1801_1U2.jpg


FenixL1TL_S1801_2.jpg
FenixL1TL_S1801_2U2.jpg


Just out of interest the Fenix L1T on High using NiMH
FenixL1TH_S1801_1.jpg
FenixL1TH_S1801_1U2.jpg


FenixL1TH_S1801_2.jpg
FenixL1TH_S1801_2U2.jpg
 

BigHonu

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In the end, I believe all that matters is if the tint is suitable for your use.

Wall hunters will be more selective because variations will be easier to see. Indoor users may like a cooler tints for more percieved brightness, while outdoor users may like warmer tints for better color rendition.

Without a doubt, ambient lighting is a big factor and is a good point to bring up. Under most circumstances where there is some form of ambient light, all LEDs look 'white' in comparison. Add another LED light to those same conditions and only then can comparisons between tints be made.
 

UnknownVT

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I found this a very good reference on Luxeon bin-codes and color tints -

Luxeon Bin Codes Explained at Yamaguchi
look about 1/3 way down that page for the tint coding.

This chart is from that page -
luxeonbinningstructureonciediagramyo6.jpg


X0 and W0 are usually considered "premium" - with W0 the warmer tint - they both can go green'ish if underdriven - but perhaps not as much as X1 or V1.
But if green is a problem when underdriven one might even try WA to mitigate this......

I probably lean toward W0 or even V0.........
 
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NutSAK

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Thanks for the info and beamshots Vincent! I agree with your observations--especially about "perceived" tints.

I'm not normally that picky about tints, but I can say that my L1T is the worst tint of any lux I own and bothers me at times. It is obviously green, even when not comparing to another light source. It works very well outdoors for color rendition, but I tend to use it often indoors with the CR123 body.
 

UnknownVT

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NutSAK wrote: "I'm not normally that picky about tints, but I can say that my L1T is the worst tint of any lux I own and bothers me at times. It is obviously green, even when not comparing to another light source. It works very well outdoors for color rendition, but I tend to use it often indoors with the CR123 body."

When you use the L1T with CR123A body - is the tint better/less green?

Sounds like you may have an X1 tint that's toward the upper (green) end of the bin.

4sevens (http://fenix-store.com) says the latest batch of L1T's have much better tints.
 

NutSAK

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It is definitely better with the 3.0V of the CR123 powering it in "high" mode, but it's still obviously green. Likewise, it is still green when run on 2AA. The tint is most apparent in the "low" mode, which is regulated to the same level regardless of supplied voltage. Therefore, it does seem to be a binning issue and not just that fact that it's underdriven with the 1AA.

I would concur with what 4sevens has recently said about the latest batch of LxT lights. I just recently bought an L2T from him, and it's very white. It's just a hair warmer than my L2P.
 
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4sevens

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NutSAK said:
Thanks for the info and beamshots Vincent! I agree with your observations--especially about "perceived" tints.

I'm not normally that picky about tints, but I can say that my L1T is the worst tint of any lux I own and bothers me at times. It is obviously green, even when not comparing to another light source. It works very well outdoors for color rendition, but I tend to use it often indoors with the CR123 body.

hey sack man,

Send that L1T head back and I'll send you another. Email me. As of Sept.
Fenix told me that the LxT series will now use select tints. They mentioned
X0, X1, WO and WA but still not guaranteed which one, but you shouldn't
any nasties. To date I have yet to find one that is really bad like the old
days. I'd like to see yours :)

Naturally on low, you will see a shift toward the warmer side and
on high a shift toward cold.

The economical LxS will still be susceptable to the luxeon lottery.
 

NutSAK

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:) Thanks 4sevens. I will shoot you an email this evening.

BTW, I doubt it's quite as warm-green as the beamshots of that S1801 above. Yuck!
 

UnknownVT

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NutSAK wrote: "I would concur with what 4sevens has recently said about the latest batch of LxT lights. I just recently bought an L2T from him, and it's very white. It's just a hair warmer than my L2P."

From his reply to you - 4sevens (http://fenix-store.com) would seem like a very honorable (and even generous) person who stands behind the products he sells.

Just so people don't think ALL earlier L1T's suffer from this, my early L1T (circa June/2006 - and admittedly sample of one) has a tint that I am very happy with - as amply shown by the beamshots above - in fact I know that many would probably much prefer it over my favorite tints on the S1801.

Hint to others with both the L1T and L2T who may feel their L1T leans toward green - swap the heads around between the L1T and L2T (they are the same/interchangeable), and see if you're happier.......
 
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4sevens

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It's funny, one of my first luxeon lights is also one of those s1801's.
For the first few months I thought it was the whitest light I'd
ever seen. I just turned mine on and it is definitely puke green.
Seems lumileds are improving.

I think lots of the complaints are due to white wall comparisons.
If they were used by themselves, the tint would not be noticed.

The truth is, it's all relative. Here is a shocking picture for you...
Left is the treasured bin WO that so many people RAVE about.
To the right is a X0, which I really hate because it reduces your
night time visibility due to how blue it is.

73725209-M.jpg


The WO almost looks puke green, but it is not. It's very nice.
It's all relative.
 

UnknownVT

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4sevens wrote: "It's funny, one of my first luxeon lights is also one of those s1801's.
For the first few months I thought it was the whitest light I'd
ever seen. I just turned mine on and it is definitely puke green.
Seems lumileds are improving.
(beamshot)
The WO almost looks puke green, but it is not. It's very nice.
It's all relative."

It certainly is and also very much depends on personal taste and tolerance.

Here's a series of beamshots concentrating just on the hotspots between the Fenix L1T on low and my current favorite tint the S1801 (2) - at varying exposures to help emphasize the tints (don't forget there's an overlap of the beams when set up this way, so there is considerable mixing of the two beams....) -
L1TL_S1801_2HotSp.jpg
L1TL_S1801_2HotSp1U.jpg

L1TL_S1801_2HotSp2U.jpg


In real-life my S1801's give the tint that's closest to midday sunlight.
The beamshots seem to show more green than it really is -
if anything there may be a tendency toward pink'ish rather than green.

However the Fenix L1T is one of the most neutral tints I have come across (as seen by the steadily decreasing exposure only shows the hotspot as going more grey ) - ie: white-white - which I know lots of people prefer........
 

NutSAK

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4sevens said:
hey sack man,

Send that L1T head back and I'll send you another.

4sevens-

Indeed, that is a very kind offer, and it only reinforces what I already knew--that your service is second to none. However, I decided to do a test of sorts....

The L1T that I've mentioned is the first luxeon flashlight I bought. At the time, I fell in love with it (OK, well not literally). I would read many comments (complaints?) here about the tint being green, and I would just shrug my shoulders and think, "who cares, it's a great light." I have since bought several luxeon lights, and I've compared them often. That activity, as you and Vincent have suggested, has made me tint-picky.

So, when Vincent posted this topic, I decided to put down all my luxeons other than the L1T and see what my thoughts were after a few days of using it exclusively, with the CR123 body.

The conclusion is that I agree with what you both have stated here. In daily use, I don't notice any negative tint to the light at all. OK, it is a bit green on low, but I don't think the slight tint really affects color rendition at all, especially outdoors where there are no white walls. I'm thankful that it's not tinted toward the blue or purple area of the spectrum, as I think that would have more of a negative effect on color rendition.

So, considering the fact that I've already modified this head for the nekomane L2P CR123 body, and my discoveries over the past couple of days, I've decided to turn down your kind offer.

Thanks anyway! :twothumbs

I will do my best to take some beamshots soon of this light compared to my "very white" L2T that I bought from Fenix-store last month. In the meantime, here is a beam comparison of my L2P vs. my L2T, both on freshly charged NiMh 2400MAh. These picture are very representative of what these lights look like in person, and although the L2T appears to have a more "yellow" tint, I would consider it a "whiter" light than the L2P. The L2P has a bit of a "reddish" tinge around the hotspot as the first picture shows:

L2P left, L2T right
ISO 200, F4.5, shutter 1/4
189685248.jpg


L2P left, L2T right
ISO 200, F7.0, shutter 1/4
189685249.jpg
 
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UnknownVT

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NutSAK wrote: "The conclusion is that I agree with what you both have stated here. In daily use, I don't notice any negative tint to the light at all. OK, it is a bit green on low, but I don't think the slight tint really affects color rendition at all, especially outdoors where there are no white walls. I'm thankful that it's not tinted toward the blue or purple area of the spectrum, as I think that would have more of a negative effect on color rendition.
So, considering the fact that I've already modified this head for the nekomane L2P CR123 body, and my discoveries over the past couple of days, I've decided to turn down your kind offer."

It's all relative - sometimes we become too critical on side-by-side comparisons - whereas in practice what appears to be an inferior tint may actually have some advantages.

However, depending which you use more -
for me, I'd simply swap the heads between the L1T and L2T -
so that even on low there would not be a green'ish tint for the L1T,
whereas on a L2T body, with 3V, the likelihood of green should be much less -
so both flashlights would now be pretty pleasing.
 

NutSAK

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That's a good tip Vincent.

I've thought of that too, but decided against it. I'm running CR123 on the L1T so the voltage/tint consideration is not a factor, since they're both running 3V. I don't even own the original L1T AA body anymore. Also, since I've already modified my L1T head for the L2P CR123 body it's just easier leaving it the way it is.

When the CR123 bodies become available for the LxT series from 4sevens, I will most likely buy one of those and undo the modification to my L1T head. Then this will be something to consider, as I do tend to use the L2T outdoors more, where the tint isn't as noticeable.
 
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yekim

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I am a bit confused as to how the binning is done. Initially I thought that LEDS were tested and then given a bin, but from what i have seen, they make batches of all one bin, which leaves room for lot of variance within a bin.

Anyhow, the L2T is an ucky green color that I think sucks the contrast out of whatever you are looking at. Still hasn't stopped me from owning several, because it's other salient features make up for it's poor tint. Some have said that the greenish tine is good for outdoors, but I have not noticed anything about the tint outside other than that it is not as noticeable outdoors. I'd still prefer something whiter.

I have found that a slightly blue/purple light adds a great deal of contrast and definition to what you are looking at. My Super 1 watt was really annoyingly purple when pointed at the ceiling, but when looking around a room, the colors of objects really "popped" and lettering was easier to read.

Still, it is amazing the differences a slight variation of tint can make to the usefulness of a light, and despite my pondering, it is all waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than it was back in the day of cheap incans.
 

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I had the luxury of trying out several different 4D MagLite LEDs and I was surprised. 3 were very white, nice tint but the 4th one had a distinctive yellow tone to it. I was surprised. It was really obvious.

Now it doesn't bother me, as the brightness seems the same and it doesn't really detract from its usefulness IMO. Still, the Luxeon Lottery is applicable to 3W MagLites. FYI.
 
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