Fenix L0P "real" brightness

I've actually had my L0P for many months, and while I think it has the usual great fenix combination of build quality/looks/price, I have to say that I'm a bit underwhelmed by its brightness. I don't have a lightmeter, but I do have a torch whose output levels I actually trust - my HDSEDC B42. In a direct comparison of the 2, the L0P has a beam approximately as bright as the 10 lumen primary mode of the B42. And that's with the L0P running on an Energiser lithium! On an NiMH it's probably 5-8 lumen.

So to work out whether I have a dud or just a nice illustration of the somewhat extravagant brightness claims that fenix (and others) make, I did a few more comparisons. Using my admittedly less than perfectly quantitative B42 comparison, here's my estimates

P1 (CR123) - 30 lumen
P1 (fresh RCR123) - 45 lumen
L2P (2xNiMH) - 35 lumen
L1T (3V lithium AA) high - 40 lumen
L1T (NiMH) high - 25 lumen
L1T (NiMH) low - 10 lumen
L0P (Lithium AAA) - 10 lumen
L0P (NiMH) - 5-8 lumen


I guess there's a few possibilities...

1 - All my fenix torches are duds
2 - All my batteries are duds
3 - I have the worlds brightest B42 and the comparisons are all duds
4 - Eyeball based comparisons are useless because they concentrate on the hotspot and not total output.
5 - Fenix output claims are overinflated. I might not have conducted these tests rigorously but P1/RCR123 70+ lumens seems pretty unlikely to me.

Has anyone with a real lightmeter done these kind of comparisons properly? I'd be interested to know what you think.

PS This is not a fenix bash - I really like their torches and think they represent brilliant value for money!

fenix's claims for most of their earlier lights were mostly taken straight off the spec sheets for the LuxIIIs, and don't account for any loss of light from reflector & lens, how hard the LED is driven and all that sort of thing. in that sense the claims are unrealistically high, although to say that's an inflation, maybe to "flashaholics" but the average joe may not know nor care.

that said, Fenix seems to be listening, and are getting better to quoting the actual output (torch lumens) of the light that comes out the front end, as shown in their E0 quotes.

The HDS of course is calibrated to have the actual torch lumens of the level be what it should be.

as to eyeballing things, it is impractical because our senses (or at the very least, sight hearing and taste) detect changes logarithimically. so in order to notice a small change in brightness for example, it could require a doubling in the actual amount of light. that's why things like decibels are on a log scale.

Thanks Somy Nex

I'm aware of the logarithmic brightness scale, that's why it was at least partly useful to use the B42, where each level is basically 4 times the light output / 2 times the apparent brightness of the previous one.

Of course this doesn't help with the subjective nature of things like beam colour, hotspot size etc etc.

Looking at my L2T on low vs L0P...the hot spot is larger on the L0P but the brightness appears more~less equal. But the spill beam on the L0P is wider and brighter...more like a "wall of light". The tint on my L0P is a creamy white...my L2T, even on low, is white...making it hard to compare. I really love the beam from the L0P...it`s just big...short range, but big. I wish my Civictor had a beam just like it...with the longer run time of course

Gadgetnerd -

Your numbers above are in line with what my Mk I calibrated eyeballs see from my L2T and my B42XRGT with both set to high - same total amount of light, but tighter hotspot from the L2T. Unfortunately, the L2T low setting is quite a bit brighter than the B42's 10 lumen primary setting.

Rowrbazzle

gadgetnerd said:

4 - Eyeball based comparisons are useless because they concentrate on the hotspot and not total output.

Click to expand...

I vote for this one.

A while back I helped Peter test some lights at Lighting Science Inc in Scottsdale AZ, the two L0Ps that we tested in an Integrated Sphere test at 15 and 17 lumens with fresh batteries. I just checked the Fenix website and they are still claiming 30 lumens which is a major stretch. Test

I do wish Fenix would use realistic numbers because I do like there lights but I also like to have reasonable expectation before buying. I bought a L0P expecting what they advertised and was pissed when I got it in. I guess I knew deep down that Fenix was stretching it but there is a hugh difference between 17 and 30 lumens. As a manufacture they should know what there products are capable of.


Premium Model Features: linked on Sept 29 06


Uses a 1-watt R-binned Luxeon LED with a life of 100,000 hours(premium model)
Maximum brightness: 30 Lumens
Uses one 1.5V AAA ( Alkaline, Ni-MH, Lithium ) battery , inexpensive and widely available
1.6-hour working time (1-hour peak brightness)
7.25cm (L) x 1.4cm (D)
Made of aircraft grade aluminum
Hard anodized finish, highly durable
14.5-gram weight
Waterproof
Toughened ultra clear glass lens with AR coating
Twist switch
Capable of standing up securely on a flat surface to serve as a candle
Colour: Black

I vote to ban all Eyeball evaluations that leads to somebody writing down a Lumen number!!!!!
Somebody who dosn't know any better might might take it as factual.

frisco

I just ordered 2 of the Fenic light for my wife and son because of what the web site says. My wife saw it on the web site and said the light is small and bright. They were going to use it for Halloween. It is our first Fenic. Oh man, they better not see it. The reviewers say the lights are the best ever made. We thought it was bright. They have our money so there is nothing we can do now. They got us.

frisco said:

I vote to ban all Eyeball evaluations that leads to somebody writing down a Lumen number!!!!! Somebody who dosn't know any better might might take it as factual. frisco

Click to expand...

No worries, let's just leave people to take the fenix figures as factual then

Lebkuecher those lumen tables are really interesting, I'd love to see them extended to include all fenix lights!

.
We had a lot of fun that day testing lights, we had flashlight from all over and every kind imaginable. I was there for about 8 1/2 hours and the day just flew by and we could only test about 2/3 of the lights. I would love to works for LSI. Below are some pictures of some of the equipment and the L0P being tested

www.lightingsciences.com

The L0P being tested





(Below) The guy from LSI setting up the testing equipment, each time a light is tested the equipment has to be recalibrated to account for the body of the flashlight. Different size bodies absorb different amounts of light so to be accurate you have to put the light into the sphere and recalibrate (So I was told)

Wow great pix. Now this is what I should have used instead of my eyes!

I hadn't seen those photos yet, thanks!

gadgetnerd said:

4 - Eyeball based comparisons are useless because they concentrate on the hotspot and not total output.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that. Especially since it's your eyeballs that utilize the light for navigation to begin with. If it's not working for you personally, no readings on a lightbox is gonna change that.

Speaking of eyeballs, it is good to remember that twice the lumens does not make the light twice as bright. Or eye response is more logrithmic, and you need a good amount more to appear twice as bright. Unless you set two lights side by side and on at the same time, that are 20% different, you will be very hard pressed to determine which one is actually brighter. I've done the test with a batch of test subjects. As it stood, there was nearly a 50% chance that the subjects could pick out the brighter one. Thats just chance at 50/50. Though, further testing showed that two of the group (20 people) could routinely pick out the brighter one, when and only when they were side by side and on at the same time.

NewBie said:

Speaking of eyeballs, it is good to remember that twice the lumens does not make the light twice as bright. Or eye response is more logrithmic, and you need a good amount more to appear twice as bright. Unless you set two lights side by side and on at the same time, that are 20% different, you will be very hard pressed to determine which one is actually brighter. I've done the test with a batch of test subjects. As it stood, there was nearly a 50% chance that the subjects could pick out the brighter one. Thats just chance at 50/50. Though, further testing showed that two of the group (20 people) could routinely pick out the brighter one, when and only when they were side by side and on at the same time.

Click to expand...

True. There are many variances.