CPForums, the 11th Sept. Tragedies, and Homophobia

lightlover

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X-CalBR8,
my response to the tragic events of 11th sept is in Topic: America is under attack @ http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=22&t=000044

I have cried over the events and the aftermath.

I read your post on Topic: Terrorist Attack @ http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000869&p=2

Which I have selectively edited here: (full text at the link given above)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by X-CalBR8:
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
the evil part of America.
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
look at how far we have sunk in this country from the point of rightfully calling homosexuality a mental perversion in psychology textbooks less than a decade ago to the point that people now days are actually celebrating the aberration! What next, a celebration of Pedophilia, rapist and of those that practice incest or bestiality!? There have really been times in the last decade that I was so ashamed of the wickedness and immorality flowing out of this country
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
that we were just headed toward becoming nothing more than an evil cesspool, but
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
there are still many many good hearted people in this country.
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
And Americans are making that very clear
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
they still can come together in times of tragedy and support one another both physically and emotionally.
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
Americans are still one of the most kind-hearted, sympathetic and caring people on earth
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure how a savage attack on a soft target resulting in a death toll as yet unknown, but somewhere in the high 1,000's (Twenty Thousand ?) leads to an essay on the *evil* of the Gay way of life.

I'm a rootin' tootin' Straight myself, but I don't care how people LOVE each other, or how they seek "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" while respecting / tolerating the choices of others.
(Yes, within reason ...... of course ...... of course ! )

To me, your homophobic views as expressed are inappropriate in that topic, insulting and cheapening the memory of the dead.

I imagine that some of those innocents ("kind-hearted, sympathetic and caring people" ?) who died were quite possibly gay, Civilians and Lawmen, Firemen, Paramedics, whatever.

Jahn Projects,
lightlover, member #260 CPForums.
 

X-CalBR8

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Something that I forgot to mention in my previous post. I believe that it was being implied that I was a homophobe and I would just like to set the record straight on that also. The word homophobe literally means a fear of homosexuals. I would like to state for the record that I am not afraid of homosexuals nor do I hate them. I do hate the sin of homosexuality however and I also hate the fact that Hollywood has brainwashed the general public into thinking that it is no more than an "alternative lifestyle".

Well, if you wish to call it an "alternative lifestyle" then you also have to concede that any lifestyle that differs from the norm is also an alternative lifestyle. Pedophiliacs have an alternative lifestyle and so do those that practice incest and bestiality, but do you see them getting good press? Well, my answer to that is that I believe that you will see them get good press in the media before the second coming because it has already been prophesied that all manner of wickedness will be adopted by the peoples of the world at the last days before the coming of Christ. The Lord compared the kinds of wickedness that would be in the later days to the kind of wickedness that was found in Sodom and Gomorrah and homosexuality was but one of the mentioned sins of those two cities and I believe that we all know what happened to them. Just because something has a nice label attached to it such as "alternative lifestyle" and has good press from the media, we shouldn't be willing to look any less harshly against the sin.

As many have said before, I'm not against the sinner, but I am against the sin. Just remember, if you aren't willing to stand up for God, and the commandments that he has given for our benefit, in your daily lives, then how quick do you think God will be to stand up for you on the day of judgement and you are begging him for mercy from the just punishment of your sins? Just something else to ponder.
 

vcal

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by X-CalBR8:
Videocal: Well, sometimes we all have need of a sermon in order to remind us that God is Lord and King and not HollyWood!
smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I already get plenty of sermons and preachments from lots of places, -talk radio and TV is already just Flooded with this talk as it IS...(we've got a major Surplus of it out here on the W. coast)-I just didn't expect to hear even more of it yet on a forum like CPF.
shocked.gif


p.s.-This of course, does NOT mean you don't have a full right to express your philosophy though..
p.p.s. What we have here is an emotional reaction (and certainly understandable) to a tremendous loss...Almost everyone is grieving over this situation, but some of us do it in different ways.......

Best regards from a Buddhist,
 

X-CalBR8

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Well, Videocal, we are really alike in one fundamental way at least. I would never seek to oppress free speech no matter how much I agree or disagree with it, but at the same time I will never cease to stand up for righteousness and to stand against wickedness. Even though I have made a decision in my life to stand against evil, I would never try to oppress free speech in the process, not even free speech of the most wicked sort. It is my belief that we must all be free and able to choose who or what we will worship and that we can never be free so long as this is not the case. I only wish that the government could come back to this simple ideal that this country and constitution was originally founded upon. That ideal being free speech.
 

X-CalBR8

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Also to those that may be thinking that I'm not grieving for the people that lost their lives in this tragedy because there were many wicked people among them, I would like to say that I have and that I am. No matter what sort of people they were (or are, depending on how you look at it) they are still children of our Father in Heaven and they still lost their lives in this tragedy and I can't help but to be grieved by this. In fact I'm even more grieved for the people that never chose to repent of their sins while they were in this world. I am even more grieved for the people that didn't find salvation in this life. I really have no reason to feel sorry for the people that did die in Christ; however, I do grieve for their loved ones left behind that will miss them dearly. I lost my father to cancer recently and I know what it means to grieve, but my father was truly repentant before he passed away and I'm sure that his sins were forgiven him. So I don't grieve for my father's sake, but for my own. Because I will miss him dearly for the rest of my life.
 

vcal

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by X-CalBR8:
I only wish that the government could come back to this simple ideal that this country and constitution was originally founded upon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Governments have historically been very feeble in either encouraging or suppressing free speech over any appreciable length of time, (even in Iraq for example-I've got friends there) and they tell me that Saddam lives just like a fugitive
smile.gif
,
Popular BLAB not withstanding, we still have a vast majority of people in this country that will be quick to support your 1st Amendment rights, -I think that's a big PLUS for us!
smile.gif
 

X-CalBR8

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Videocal: I truly hope you are right, but I've seen a lot of things that make me think otherwise of late. For one thing almost no web host on the internet will allow you to have free speech on your web site. Almost everyone that I've checked out so far has a provision that you aren't allowed to talk about religion, sex, politics or race. Basically anything controversial. My question is this: If we truly do still have free speech in this country, then why are all web host scared to death to allow you to post your views on anything controversial? This worries me greatly because it says something about where this country is headed. It looks as though I'm going to have to host my personal web site on a server in a foreign country, as though it were a porno site, just to find a web host that still allows free speech. This fact troubles me deeply.
 

vcal

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by X-CalBR8:
Videocal: I truly hope you are right, but I've seen a lot of things that make me think otherwise of late. For one thing almost no web host on the internet will allow you to have free speech on your web site. Almost everyone that I've checked out so far has a provision that you aren't allowed to talk about religion, sex, politics or race. Basically anything controversial. My question is this: If we truly do still have free speech in this country, then why are all web host scared to death to allow you to post your views on anything controversial? This worries me greatly because it says something about where this country is headed. It looks as though I'm going to have to host my personal web site on a server in a foreign country, as though it were a porno site, just to find a web host that still allows free speech. This fact troubles me deeply.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not from the many chat rooms I've visited, (and there are jillions), but I also think that a lot of web hosts are just trying to avoid any possible legal liabilities. -Personally, I don't think they otherwise care, one way or the other...the internet is of course, primarily a commercial enterprise.
 

X-CalBR8

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I did try to avoid turning this into a discussion of religion, but it seems you have forced me to do such. All I have to say in response to your post is that you are foolish to believe that the level of wickedness in this country does not directly correspond to the degree of punishments that God will pour out on this country before the second coming of Christ. It is all throughout the scriptures the things we will have to suffer in the Last Days before the coming of Christ because of our wickedness. We have examples all throughout the scriptures of where people were living in wickedness and the Lord poured out judgement upon them. The scriptures say that the Lord's hand is in all things. These terrorists weren't allowed to do so much damage by accident. The Lord allowed it to happen as a wake up call to the country and from the looks of things that is indeed what it was. From this terrible tragedy many people are turning their hearts from things of wickedness back to the things of God!

And it is also strange to me how all the hypocrites in this country can support wicked lifestyles and all manner of sexual (and non-sexual) perversions and then turn their faces to God and pray for help! The Lord says John 14:15 "If you love me keep my commandments" and he also says Mathew 7:21-23 21: "Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven." 22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? 23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Does everyone here believe it merely to be a coincidence that the Lord allowed this tragedy to happen in one of the most wicked cities in this country? In a building that symbolized worldly greed itself?

And if it was only my comments on the wickedness of Homosexuality (not the person, the sin) that triggered such a response from you, then I could continue to list scripture after scripture in both the Old Testament and New Testament that condemn Homosexuality (The Lord even puts forth a death penalty concerning it) and other sexual aversions to the core, but I'm sure that you wouldn't even take the time to read them and take them seriously if I did. The Lord also says in Mathew 7:6 "neither cast your Pearls before swine lest they trample them under their feet," so I will refrain from speaking any more of it unless someone truly desires more information, not just for the sake of causing contention over it. I would however call on everyone that reads this to repent of their sins whatever they may be (because we all have them, myself included) and come closer to God during this time of trials and tribulation so that when you do have need to cry Lord, Lord, that the Lord will be more inclined to hear your prayers because you will have proved that you Love God by keeping his commandments. John 14:15.
 

Spork

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well actually he makes some good points. all these countries are looking to make perfect laws and wondering why they can't get it right. God already made 10 very good and SIMPLE laws that people and governments choose to ignore.I'm very patriotic but why doesn't a "Nation under God" have to follow God's rules?
 

X-CalBR8

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mrchri5: I just wanted to say thank you for your kind words. Also I wanted to ask, why does our money say "In God We Trust"? If it isn't still a true statement then why is it still printed on our money? Just something else to think about.
smile.gif
 

X-CalBR8

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Videocal: Well, sometimes we all have need of a sermon in order to remind us that God is Lord and King and not HollyWood!
smile.gif
 

lightlover

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videocal, mrchri5, I salute you !

X-CalBR8,
I will forgive your hurtful personal attacks, just as I'm sure you will forgive me my opinions.
It is plain that you have strongly held beliefs. I do have some respect for that, but am at a loss to rationalise the same.
I accept the spiritual belief systems that I recognise as Humane, but not necessarily the interpretations of their practitioners .

The God you believe in has very complex, strange, very indirect ways of giving His messages.
(Over the last 25 years, I have been in hearing distance of 7 Urban bomb attacks, once actually well within the blast range. So far, I've been badly shaken, but unharmed.)

I hope the dead people of the recent attacks found some comfort in consideration of His higher purpose, as they were dying, and that He will perhaps, in His wisdom, change His mind and "allow" a healing of all the people He has injured.
(You did assert that "the Lord's hand is in all things".)
Some people lost in the wreckage, and praying for rescue, may yet be saved.
Myself, I could have wished for much better news than the stories I saw and read.

How is it that you hold your Bible to be so clear, if His actions over the last 2,000 years are so difficult to understand ?

Truly, your Logic throughout your arguments is baffling to me, although I think I do understand what you intended to convey by -
Matthew 7:6 "neither cast your Pearls before swine .............. "

As to the importance of the inscription on your money: as you suggest, I'll think about that.

Regarding the Homophobia, (implied or not !) I do not think that you would describe yourself as *Gay-friendly*.
I however, am proudly so.

Even within "the norm", (a convenient label for one's own version of the *ideal* state of affairs) there are many different people, and so many different personalities, approaches and lifestyles. Are you certain that you personally represent a universally desirable lifestyle ?

Let us show respect for all the *victims*. Let us Honour them by accepting their individualities, whatever their roles or persuasions. They are now lost to us.

Shall we agree to differ, anyway ?

Jahn,
a lover of light.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, what do you think about the SureFire E2 ?
Now, that's a product which seems to have been smiled upon by the Great Spirit Herself ......
 

The_LED_Museum

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I, for one, will not be party to any kind of discrimination. Not here on CPF, not in my neighborhood, not anywhere.

Whether it's calling some NYC taxi driver a "towelhead", using the "N" word against your black neighbor, or calling someone like me a "wicked, evil faggot", I simply have no tolerance for it.
I already get enough of it from being disabled in a wheelchair.
mad.gif


Although I love this forum and respect its members, I can disappear from it as quickly as I appeared if I see this place turn into a hatemonger's hangout. There are other forums on which tolerance for this kind of discrimination is much more liberal and unfortunately, even acceptable; but I'd rather not see that happen to CPF.
And thankfully, so far I have not seen it here, though evidence of it now exists. Whatever message had been originally written was edited away before I stumbled across it.

God loves all of his children, regardless of where they come from, what color they are, what church they attend, or what they may or may not do behind the bedroom door.

And no, I do NOT appreciate people like rapists and pedophiles. IMO, those particular kinds of people can go to the same place the US terrorists will end up.
And while they're still on this planet in corporeal form, they belong locked away where they can never hurt anyone again.

$0.02
My opinion only.
Your mileage may vary.
 

mikep

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I never understand when people focus on homosexuality as just about the most important 'wickedness' that they have to talk about. If you're into the bible, why aren't you more upset about widespread fornication, or even the very common using the Lords name in vain- i.e. 'Oh my God' ?
 

Mike

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Sin is sin, whatever form it comes in.

God hates sin, but loves the sinner (that's all of us).

Why don't we get back to the flashlights.
smile.gif
 

vcal

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mikep:
If you're into the bible, why aren't you more upset about widespread fornication, or even the very common using the Lords name in vain- i.e. 'Oh my God' ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That same exclamatory phrase was the first thing yelled by eyewitnesses to the first crash into the WTC, and only indicated amazement, I think...
 

X-CalBR8

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Stingmon: "And no, I do NOT appreciate people like rapists and pedophiles."

How ironic. And you say that YOU do not discriminate based upon someone else's behavior and condemn Christians for doing the same.

Mikep: You couldn't be more correct, there are many many different serious sins in the world. I did not wish to appear that I was focusing on any particular one. Fornication adultery and all other sexual sin is an abomination in the site of God as well as homosexuality. I only made mention of that particular sin because New York is one of the largest proponents of that particular sin on earth.

To all: I never proposed to hate homosexuals nor did I encourage anyone else here to hate homosexuals and if you had truly read my previous post then that fact would have been made abundantly clear. I don't hate any of Gods children, but there are many people in the world that choose to partake in the most grievous of sins and I am very much against those sins. And like I mentioned in previous post, what someone else does that angers God against my home country does affect me (indirectly at the very least) and I have a right to ask, plead and beg of my fellow countrymen to forsake those sins that are abominable in the sight of God. Anyone that has actually read the Bible cover to cover, as I have, can hold no illusions that the Lord will not allow a nation living in sin to continue to prosper.
 

X-CalBR8

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*something ridiculous: I would like to say that I have absolutely no qualms with you expressing your views. I am one of the biggest proponents of free speech that you will probably ever meet. And unlike other people that claim to be for free speech until someone else says something that they don't agree with, I am for protecting free speech all the more for those things that I don't personally agree with. Laws to protect free speech are there to protect unpopular speech not "politically correct" speech. If a person says all things that are "politically correct" then they have no need for law to protect their speech because everyone already agrees with it already. I try to respect and learn from everyone, most especially those people that I don't personally agree with.

So far as "The God I believe in," I believe in the God of the Old and New Testaments. I also believe the Book of Mormon the true word of God that was given through the prophets of the American continent during the time of Christ. Jesus made reference to these people when he said in John 10:16 "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." There are many many other scriptures that speak of the people that were upon the American continent during the time of Christ also and if anyone is interested just email me and I will be happy to discus them. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Why would God see to the spiritual welfare of one part of the world and leave the rest to perish in unbelief? Also when the Spanish Conquistadors conquered South America, they were absolutely amazed that the native people had knowledge passed down through legend of the events accounted of in the Old Testament such as the great flood and the tower of Babel. They chalked it up to "the work of the Devil", as they did most things they didn't understand during those dark times. The Book of Mormon is another testament of Christ and affirms those things taught in the Bible. Mathew 18:16 [That in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established]. The Book of Mormon is a second witness of Christ.

My belief is based both on faith and fact. There are things that have happened in my life that prove to me that God lives and has power and authority in our lives, but that is something that everyone has to learn for themselves through study and much prayer and faith. There are many that have seen and spoken with Angels because of their faith, my father included. Even though I personally have never spoken with an Angel (knowingly at least), I have felt the power of the Holy Ghost and know that God lives.

If there are any religious points that I've made that seem strange or mysterious, I can easily prove each and every point directly from the scriptures, if anyone is interested. I would like to say that I did not just wake up one morning and say to myself that "this is what I'm going to believe because it's what I want to be true." This is the fallacy that most people that "choose" a religion fall into. You can not just "choose" a religion that fits what you want to be true. You have to find THE true religion and change your believes to match those of God because he is the source of all truth. Ephesians 4:5 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism." The things that I believe come directly from the scriptures and the scriptures were inspired directly by the power of God, of this I can testify, but to gain this testimony for yourself it will require you to study and to pray. It is not anything that someone can just explain to someone else, but once you have truly felt the power of the Holy Ghost, then you will know the truth for yourself.
 
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