question for darell (EV-1)

Hey Darell, I noticed you said you have an EV. What is it? Did you build it? I have been looking in to this for quite a while. We are on "Time of Use" here for power. I work about 12 miles from here and it is all 40mph to and from work. I also have a some solar panels and 2 SW2412 inverters, with 8 Trojan T125's.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:<BR><STRONG>Hey Darell, I noticed you said you have an EV. What is it? Did you build it? I have been looking in to this for quite a while. We are on "Time of Use" here for power. I work about 12 miles from here and it is all 40mph to and from work. I also have a some solar panels and 2 SW2412 inverters, with 8 Trojan T125's.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> - <A HREF="http://darelldd.com/ev" TARGET=_blank>Darell's EV1 Page</A> -<BR>Hey Brock -<P>This is the first time I've ever looked down here, and what do I find? A thread addressed to me! Yay.<P>You're on TOU? Wow. Where do you live? Here in CA, you need to have an EV to be on TOU currently. I think we could solve many of our state's (and country's) electricity problems if we made everybody move to TOU - but nobody asked me, of course.<P>Mine is an EV1 (actually not delivered until 11/27 since I'll be on vacation until then). It is the first ground-up EV production vehicle ever made, and is still the hightest-performance by far. In 1997 it held the EV land speed record at 183mph - with just two differences over mine - six more batteries and taller gearing. Mine will be limited to 80mph, but its acceleration is great: 0-60 in under 8 seconds. You get max torque from 0-80, and no shifting!<P>You are the PERFECT candidate for an EV. I just wish there were more options out there. More and more are coming, but due to the nasty politics, they are coming slower than they should.<P>One note of interest: NiMH batteries were invented specifically for my car. They were to be the answer to lead-acid's short comings. They hold more amp-hours, certainly, but they had serious heat prolems when they scaled them up. Turns out they work great in consumer electronics, and not quite so great in huge arrays like in an EV.<P>Feel free to email me at any time if you have questions!<P>Here's the car and color I'll have soon:<BR> <IMG SRC="http://darelldd.com/ev1/ev1silver.jpg"> <P>And here's the charger I just had installed in my garage yesterday:<BR> <IMG SRC="http://darelldd.com/ev1/chargersmall.jpg">

Yes, we have a choice out here; it is twice the price "on-peak" and half "off peak". So it works out well for us. You know I always wondered why they don't build a 15A 120 charger in to the car. I understand it might take a day or so to charge at that rate, but would it make it more convenient? We can't get the EV's up here yet, but I did look in to the Toyota and Honda hybrids. Although after looking at them the VW diesel Jetta is looking pretty good. You will have to let us know what you think of your EV, can you buy them or still just lease? What does the charger station for the EV pull? I am full of questions today

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
Yes, we have a choice out here; it is twice the price "on-peak" and half "off peak".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here we pay about 3x on peak and 1/3x off peak. So it REALLY pays to shut stuff off in the afternoons. In the winter there is no "peak" so the price is "partial peak" (about the same price as everybody else's juice) or off peak. The summer is gonna kill me though with the AC.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
You know I always wondered why they don't build a 15A 120 charger in to the car. I understand it might take a day or so to charge at that rate, but would it make it more convenient?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, but they do, grasshopper. They put the "convenience" charger in the trunk. If you park at somebody's house overnight, you can charge from 110. Takes about 16hr from totally empty to totally full (but you just about never do that). The same process takes 5.5 hours at 220V.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
We can't get the EV's up here yet, but I did look in to the Toyota and Honda hybrids.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The hybrids are great in that they get extra-good gas mileage - but the problem remains: they still burn gasoline. Now you have an internal combustion engine (along with all it's maintenance needs) riding shotgun in your electric car (with its expensive and heavy batteries). You have to gas the thing, change the oil, start it cold and pollute. But of course you get EXCELLENT range. Don't mean to put you off of hybrids since they're the next best thing for our environment - but while an EV is about 98% cleaner than an ICE (internal combustion engine), a hybrid is only about 15% cleaner. But anything that removes us from dependence on foreign oil has my big YES vote.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
can you buy them or still just lease?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For the EV1 it is lease only - which is FINE by me. The batteries run about $10k still. (makes the 123's look cheap, huh?)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
What does the charger station for the EV pull? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The charger has a 40 amp breaker, and it nominally pulls 30 amps. There are some public chargers that pull 70 amps and can charge the car in just about half the time.

Here are a couple of good links if you want more info on the EV1:

This shows cut-away views of the car - http://ev1-club.power.net/evpics.htm

This is the official GM site for the car - http://www.gmev.com/

And here are various mpegs - http://www.ev1.pair.com/charge_across_america/charge_html/goodies.html

I completly agree, I wish I could go straight EV. An issue up here would be heat, since it is regularly 0 F here. Although I would rough it if I had an EV.

That is some cool looking "Machine of the Future".

lightlover

Yeah - "machine of the future" all right. Designed in 1990, built in 1997, leased to me in late 2001. Sad that it is still the most advanced and highest-tech option out there.

The thing looks and especially sounds like a space ship. Accelerating hard to nothing but the sound of gear noise is a wierd feeling.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
An issue up here would be heat, since it is regularly 0 F here. Although I would rough it if I had an EV.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heating the cabin is not a problem. The main heat for the EV1 is a heat-pump, but that doesn't work in your kind of temps. They then augment the heatpump with an electric heater for the serious cold days. The problem with those low temps is battery life. The lead-acid batteries that I'll have can lose 50% of their capacity in the serious cold. This is one of the big issues facing EVs today. Their ranges are always calculated using CA's weather. Ironically, the problem with big NiMH batteries is that they produce too much heat, and keeping them cool is a big problem. an NiMH pack would probably be the answer for colder climates.

The car comes tomorrow (Tuesday) afternoon! I'm so excited - I'll soon have the biggest rechargeable flashlight around! Tough to fit on the keychain though.

Looking forward to pics and first thoughts

They outa put a propane tank in there too for car cabin heat and warming the batteries! I heard those EV-1's cost over a $100,000 each to build, GM takes a big loss on each sale -- well, they used to sell them, didn't they? No mass market for them like conventional gas cars...I love the idea of being able to 'fill your tank' at any electric outlet -- you could drive for ever for free with all the 'hidden outlets' you could sip juice from out there -- even street lamps, in a pinch. (I've seen more than one homeless person who has tapped into the bases of those things when I was in NYC..but I didn't look inside the plastic covered refridgerator box to see what was being powered up...cappucino machine? Computer? Electric blanket?

Pics will come Brock. Count on it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
I heard those EV-1's cost over a $100,000 each to build.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Over $100,000" is a gross understatement. There were fewer than 1000 made, and when taking the cost of development and production into account, they came out costing between $1 and $1.5 million each. You'll be pround to tell your friends that you know somebody driving a million dollar car!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> GM takes a big loss on each sale -- well, they used to sell them, didn't they?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, they've never been sold. Only leased.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>No mass market for them like conventional gas cars
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There would have been by now if the manufacturers weren't spending $billions to fight the mandate that will require them. Instead of developing newer, better designs with all that cash, they've been feeding it to lobbyists.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
...I love the idea of being able to 'fill your tank' at any electric outlet -- you could drive for ever for free with all the 'hidden outlets' you could sip juice from out there

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In CA, you don't even have to steal the juice. There are currently about 1100 FREE 220V public chargers throughout CA. In a pinch, you can plug into 110 at grandma's though.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>but I didn't look inside the plastic covered refridgerator box to see what was being powered up...cappucino machine? Computer? Electric blanket?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe his $million EV.

Well, hot-damn. What fun this thing is. Drove home conservatively in the dark last night. But this morning took all my neighbors for test-rides. The thing has more low-end grunt than anything I've driven recently (this side of a 'Vette). It has a couple of rattles in the doors, but otherwise, it is tough to tell it from new (this is a 1997 with 11,000 miles - leased once before for a year). It is such a blast to drive. Nobody ever hears you coming, but they sure turn to look after you've gone by.

If you're a CPF member, with an autocar like that, maybe you should add some undercar lighting, or a few HID's or LED's to it.

And some Science-Fiction sound effects to broadcast as you approach people would be sooo nice.

What about the theme from Close Encounters as a hooter noise ?

That is some ve-hickle Darell ......

lightlover

Don't want to do anything to decrease my range! This weather is terrible lately. I need to use the heat, the defrost, the wipers and the headlights. It's a wonder I can move the car at all!

The car already comes with the cutest little horn warble to warn pedestrians that can't hear the car coming. You pull the left steering wheel stalk toward you and it "bluuuups."

I know quite a bit about lead acid batteries, but how does the car let you know state of charge? Is it a voltmeter, or does it count amp hours like a Trimetric or ???

So how far can you run on a charge driving normally? I would guess you are only supposed to take the batteries to 1/2 full?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
I know quite a bit about lead acid batteries, but how does the car let you know state of charge? Is it a voltmeter, or does it count amp hours like a Trimetric or ???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The "fuel gage" takes voltage AND Ah into account to come up with a good guess.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
So how far can you run on a charge driving normally? I would guess you are only supposed to take the batteries to 1/2 full?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With my batteries, in warm weather, my range is about 80-100 miles. In cold, rainy weather where I'm displacing water, using the lights, wipers and heat, the range is closer to 60 miles. You are supposed to take the batteries down quite low, actually. You can even kill them if you want, but you need to suffer through three stages of warning. The last one being "permanent battery damage." After the second warning, you go into "reduced preformance" mode. You have about 10 miles of slow driving to get your butt off the road while praying for a power outlet before it lets you destroy the batteries. Remember that this whole time you not only have a fuel gage, but a distance estimator as well. So you pretty well know well before you get in trouble. Doesn't just sneak up on you. These batteries are the epitome of "deep cycle." Purpose-built for this application (like the NiMh batteries that follwed - which by the way are much more delicate and less forgiving less instantaneously powerfull).

The charger is very sophisticated, and depending on the state of the batteries when recharging begines, chooses from several algorithms. Ballancing all the batteries is a biggie that it does when it thinks it is necessary.

What's that? You want to see pictures? Of the EV AND my daughter. Well.... OK.

********
To help save bandwidth, I've replaced the pictures with a link to my Ugly EV1 page, that should get better as I have more time
******

Darell's Ugly EV1 page

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
What's that? You want to see pictures? Of the EV AND my daughter. Well.... OK.
......
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, she's a really cute kid !! How old is she ?

That car is just SMOOTH looking. Just look at that rear window line ...
I do believe it's an instant classic. It just looks like a stylists example of a futuristic automobile , with both 50's and Japanese car influences. (Those rear wheel covers ! )

More photos please. And this time round, include the proud owner ?

(Also, you've got an enviably well-organised garage. )

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Here I'm teahing Kyra to use the mirrors when backing into the garage<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Y'know, I'm definitely slowing down. As the picture gradually downloaded, I was looking at it open-mouthed, thinking "Those US guys sure do take driving tuition seriously" ......


Darell, you posted today elsewheres that this topic had faded somewhat. And yesterday, I posted an aside in another topic that "it [was] about time for an update on your EV"

(Shucks, the guy is too busy writing to read replies in a topic he's posted in ...... )

More please, and just update every time you got something to say - this subject is ongoing, I think.
What attention was paid to (road) safety considerations in the design ?

lightlover