Night Fire Qualification....

Every few months we have to qualify with our weapons and pretty much do a standard regulation coarse set up much like the Feds use....It starts out with 5 shots from the 25 yard line then moves closer in 5 yard steps. You have to shoot a 78 I believe to pass.

Every other year we have to do a nightime qualification for those of us on night shift and this weekend is my turn. I finally have a chance to showcase all my new incandescents from Wolf-Eyes however they say it is best to qualify with what you carry so that is my 9D Raider......I was considering using my 13 volt set up and the R123 cells in my Raider body to really light up the coarse.

I am still debating however have never really ran down my 13 volt set up all the way so I really have no idea of runtime. If the coarse lasts a few hours of maybe 4 minutes of use per round. It would probably see about 30 minutes of total use and can anyone guess about how much I will get from the 3 R123 set up and the 13 volt lamp.? I am using non-protected 800mAh R123 cells from Lighthound and the D36 13 volt lamp.

I know the standard 9D Raider will be plenty as I carry it nightly and the runtime is great. What it comes down to is I am simply really wanting to blow everyones socks off with the 13 volt just for kicks however I cant afford for it to go weak on me halfway through my qualification. They do not allow a re-shoot for user error and having a light not able to handle say maybe 30 minutes of use would be user error.....should I try it?


Thanks for the help and it is rare that I get a valid reason to play with all my lights. Maybe I could carry 2 of the 150 cells and spare 9V head in my pocket however I do not remember if they allow swapping in the middle of qualification.

A quick look at the FLR review of the M90-13v gives a runtime of 58 min to 50% (protected cell shutdown).

Since this is running on 3x150A cells (nominal 1400mAh capacity) you might speculate that your 800mAh cells ought to give you half that runtime easily

BUT

These quoted capacities are "nominal" and the real ones are usually somewhat lower
PLUS
Your smaller cells will be getting driven somewhat harder in terms of discharge rate (current/capacity) than the 150As - which I gather tends to decrease the capacity that you'll see out of them.

So I think that you'd be taking a big gamble on this setup lasting the course, unless you can take spare cells and change them at some point.

Do they allow you to carry a backup light in case your main one fails? (not a good option I know, but it might give you a bit of breathing space)

I'd go with the comfortable option of using kit that you're sure will last the course, and then show off your "monster" light when you've qualified (you do get a few minutes to "play" afterwards, don't you?)

So you have your light on a majority of the time when shooting? I've always trained to light the target, ID, shoot if nessesary, and move. Total time with the light on? 2 seconds per round.

When we night fired last spring the light saw maybe 5 minutes of on time total. Of course the bulb on my 20 minute old 9P blew anyway but I was able to use my back up Nuwai 5W. There'll be plenty of time to swap batteries between courses after reloading mags if you're really worried about it....SO I say bring the 13V and some spare batt's and blow em away. I know I'm bringin' my m90-13v out on the 13th.




RIP M.S.

Robocop just curious as to what you carry for a sidearm & what's the cal.? I think the raider is an ideal law enforcement light, very compact and lots of blinding light (gives you a tactical advantage)!

I shoot lots of pistol matches @ night where a good compact light really helps & I've been quite pleased with the WE's so far! Does your DEPT. allow you to qualify with a rail mounted light (like the streamlight M3) that would most certainly improve your scores!

BUZ said:

Does your DEPT. allow you to qualify with a rail mounted light (like the streamlight M3) that would most certainly improve your scores!

Click to expand...

I work the same Dept and if your level II or up pistol holster will accept the mounted light then you're good to go. Otherwise no tac-lite for you. Lasers are on the unapproved list too.



RIP M.S.

BUZ, he might not see this for 7 or 8 hours, so...HK USP40.

I had an incandescant blow on my last nightfire course.
Pulled out Scorpion 500 and put TOOO much light down range.
Lit up everything for everybody.
The more I learn, a good LED would be the best thing for night fire.
Dosn't have to be too bright because you should be using it at moderate ranges at most. My converted 3 cell Mag D's would do a great job but they are big.
Of couse, my Magchargers are not little either. That is what I carried for many years until I retired a year ago.
It gets interesting since I still train officers and private security and they don't have a clue about low light shooting. Flashlight training still has a long way to go and a lot of people have good ideas to share. I like the new Mag 3 AA. Specs look good for an every night carry. The best light is still the one you have with you.
Any realistic runtime of 60 minutes should cover any situation. Yes I know there are exceptions. That's why I alway had more than one option.

VWTim said:

So you have your light on a majority of the time when shooting? I've always trained to light the target, ID, shoot if nessesary, and move. Total time with the light on? 2 seconds per round.

Click to expand...

Speaking of which, how's that Gladius working for ya?

greenLED said:

Speaking of which, how's that Gladius working for ya?

Click to expand...

I still haven't shot with it, been meaning to get ahold of you.

The one bad thing I've found about LED's is they don't cut through fog or bad weather if you live in one of those climates. I also tried doing a nightfire course with my Mag85, that was borderline useless. While it lit up my target, my neighbor's target, the berm, pretty much everything. Any remaining night vision I had was gone and due to the contrast different the whole slide of my 1911 pretty much dissapeared. I couldn't see the night sights at all.
Just my $.02,

Robocop...I have the (2) 18500 set up in Wolf Eyes 9v....just as bright as 3 primaries...and a longer run time ( sorry...didn't make a full run time)....

VWTim said:

I still haven't shot with it, been meaning to get ahold of you.

Click to expand...

No worries; I don't need it back anytime soon (or if I do, I'll let you know).

Maybe as always I am simply over analyzing everything and my Raider will be just fine on the standard 9V D36. I did want to use some of my newer toys simply for the fun factor of it however knowing very little about the runtimes of the 13 Volt and R123 set up I did not want to risk it.

In the past I shot 90s using my tired old 3.7 Volt Commander and did just fine so again most likely my Raider 9D will be just fine. On a side not I miss that old Commander at times....we went through alot together.

Thanks for the input and I will take all of my new Wolf-Eyes toys and just see if they will let me play around a little extra to get a feel for how the different lamps do in a nightime combat scenario.

On a side not my current back up light is the wonderful TW4 I traded from Owen....great light for searching medium sized buildings in a pinch however do not know how well it would do at the 25 yard line.....but it is small and packs a punch with the R123.

Buz as Owen said I carry an H&K USP-40 and it has NEVER failed me. It has seen probably close to 8000 rounds in my career and never had a mis-feed as of yet. Most of those rounds were from practice and personal shooting on off days. Many weekends friends and myself would head to the rock quarry for a few hundred practice rounds....nothing like blasting a few tin cans to improve your shooting....hehe Plus on duty with qualifications we usually shoot a few hundred rounds yearly for certification....over time it surely has added up to at least 8000 rounds......love this weapon and trust it with my life.

Robocop said:

Buz as Owen said I carry an H&K USP-40 and it has NEVER failed me. It has seen probably close to 8000 rounds in my career and never had a mis-feed as of yet. Most of those rounds were from practice and personal shooting on off days. Many weekends friends and myself would head to the rock quarry for a few hundred practice rounds....nothing like blasting a few tin cans to improve your shooting....hehe Plus on duty with qualifications we usually shoot a few hundred rounds yearly for certification....over time it surely has added up to at least 8000 rounds......love this weapon and trust it with my life.

Click to expand...

The H&K usp 40 is a fine piece, various people have done extensive testing on the usp's and they are damn tough + they go bang every time you pull the trigger! http://www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html

I'm a big fan of glocks myself, they may be ugly however there reliability is unsurpassed! http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90&Item

BUZ said:

....I'm a big fan of glocks myself, they may be ugly however there reliability is unsurpassed!

Click to expand...

I must be the only one who has had a glock (a 17) fail. Maybe it's me, after all I had that near new 9P bulb blow on me too. In any event the trigger pull on mine went from the 8lb spec (using the 8lb connector not one of the NY springs) to around 40 or 50 lbs during one string of fire. Could never figure out what was wrong - the armorer at the range ended up replacing everything in the trigger group including the trigger housing ejector and it has been fine ever since. It happened during pre-qualifying practice so no harm done but it was freaky. Didn't keep me from buying a glock 22 though. Even the best parts can break. You know that my duty bag has a bunch of spare parts in it now. I dunno why, not like I am gonna be able to get them out and replace parts when I need the gun but they are in there!

I've actually heard of people having issues with G36's. Although on a whole, Glocks have great reliability. Issues are few and far between. This coming from a 1911 shooter

My notes from testing various wolfeyes combos.

WE 3.7v D26 LA with 1x17670 AW 1600mAh new protected, in SF G2
50 mins till protection, only noticibly dimming in final minutes.

WE 9v D26 LA with 2xrcr123a lighthound 800mAh unprotected in SF G2
30 mins dims fast at end then cuts out abrubtly, not as bright or white as with 2x17500 AW in 9T body

WE 13v D36 LA with 3xrcr123a lighthound 800mAh unprotected in 9dx
25 mins dims fast at end, great usefull beam, spot in the middle then fades out to a wall

WE 9v d26 LA with 2x17500 AW 1100mAh new protected in 9T
55 minutes, dims slightly in the last minute or 2, then shuts off abruptly


I haven't timed the 9v D36, but I would assume it would be comparable in runtime to the 9v d26. I need to update my notes with times from the new 18500 cells later.

B'hamFAL said:

I must be the only one who has had a glock (a 17) fail. Maybe it's me, after all I had that near new 9P bulb blow on me too. In any event the trigger pull on mine went from the 8lb spec (using the 8lb connector not one of the NY springs) to around 40 or 50 lbs during one string of fire. Could never figure out what was wrong - the armorer at the range ended up replacing everything in the trigger group including the trigger housing ejector and it has been fine ever since. It happened during pre-qualifying practice so no harm done but it was freaky. Didn't keep me from buying a glock 22 though. Even the best parts can break. You know that my duty bag has a bunch of spare parts in it now. I dunno why, not like I am gonna be able to get them out and replace parts when I need the gun but they are in there!

Click to expand...

There's gonna be failures but with glocks they are rare very rare! I shoot around 250-300rds a week just through my glocks and have never had a single jam, add that up over ten + years and well yeah thats quite a few rounds!

For a number of years I carried a 1911 however after a while the weight and size were just a bit much for everyday carry, the 1911 was a ed brown custom and was so reliable I could fill the eight round mag up with empty cases and cycle them with no jams! I have never had or seen another pistol that would do that! I shoot matches with quite a few local sheriff's deputys and a good majority of them carry kimbers which a fine pistols too!


B'hamFAL do you carry any kind of backup?

Majr thats is just what I needed and thanks for the help......I have pretty much decided to qualify with what I carry nightly and that is the 9V D36 Raider combo.....I can always wow my friends afterwards with the other set ups.

Buz I actually owned a Glock 22 for some time and yes they are indeed a fine weapon. My old partner carried the full size 45 Cal with full porting, attatched lighting to the rails and all the other add ons. It was a hefty size weapon however did feel so good in my hands. It shot very well also and never failed him either.

I sold my Glock simply because I wanted a side safety switch and honestly I liked the way the H&K looked and it seemd to shoot better for me. It was easier for me to keep it on target during fast shooting drills.....If I had known just how much high cap. mags cost as well as other items for the H&K I may have kept my trusty Glock. Man they are proud of their accessories for the H&K but it is well worth the cost for me as I trust it with my life nightly.

BUZ said:

B'hamFAL do you carry any kind of backup?

Click to expand...

When it happened I was all about getting a backup but then realized that this police thing is still new to me and awareness of my duty weapon's position in relation to the suspects was enough of a chore. I've got lots of task loading as it is and keeping track of a backup at this point might just be too much.

Sooooo I bought me an SOG Flash II with a tanto tip and a G&P tactical/strike bezel for my 9P instead.