Flashlights and airport INsecurity

brightnorm

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Oct 13, 2001
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7,160
.

I just returned from a trip that left me feeling even less secure about flying than I was before.

I was belt-carrying the Asp Taclite (Triad), Inova X5 and two Surefire batteries taped end to end, all in the same holster. I had a Photon Microlite and Arc AAA Le on my keyring, and a UK 2L in my jacket pocket. In my carryon I had a Surefire 9P and an extra P91 lamp module. I'm sure that not one person in 10,000 has seen some of these lights.

For the outward bound flight, I placed all the belt-carry items, plus the contents of my pockets in the basket which went through the conveyor belt X-ray machine, along with my jacket containing the UK 2L and the carryon containing the 9P and P91.

The result? Nothing. I was passed through along with my luggage. No questions, no inspection, no nothing. After claiming my things I went up to a woman guard and told her I was disappointed with security, that I carried several items that certainly looked unconventional, and that I was surprised I wasn't even searched. She said (with a smile): "You want me to search you?" I said "yes". So she did, gave me a clean bill of health, patted me on the back and told me not to worry. A well-armed, tough-looking Guardsman (or reg army soldier?) turned grimly toward me and smiled a little. I couldn't believe it. God forbid if someone with murderous intent had a ticket on that flight. I'm sure he would have gotten on. I will say that a very few people were having their baggage searched; much less than the supposed random "one in five" that we've all heard about.

The trip back was pretty much the same, with two exceptions: No random searches at all, and a very tall rather odd-looking blond man wearing brown loafers and no socks was asked to remove his shoes, which were almost immediately returned. No one seemed the least bit interested in my lights.

While it's true that some precautions are better than none, I still feel that airport security as represented by those two very recent flights is a joke. I don't believe we can adopt the Israeli method because we have so many thousands if flights; the logistics would be overwhelming.

I suspect the answer lies with the super-detector machines that are around the corner, and with highly sophisticated face matching technology.

The final question that lingers in my mind: why didn't they at least ask about some of those lights? Was it because they didn't have that "take no prisoners" look of some of the combat Surefires? Was it possible that most airport personnel are familiar with these lights? Whatever the answer, I'm definitely NOT Loooking forward to my next flight.

Best regards,
Brightnorm


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Lux Luthor

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With all those lights, I'm surprised they didn't plummet you to the ground and search for plastic explosives.
shocked.gif
I can only think of one possible explanation - maybe you don't look arab. Actually, I can think of another explanation - they're all FU#@*#G INCOMPETENT!!!
mad.gif
With this kind of security, you could probably waltz onboard with the Beast in your hand, and maybe even play with it in the cockpit.
rolleyes.gif
So much for my signature. They're forgetting already.
 

papasan

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Mar 25, 2001
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Northern Virginia
just yesterday a guy told me how, last time he flew out of dallas, he and all his luggage were searched on five seperate occasions...because of airline screw-ups he had to change terminals and because of a desicion to step outside for a cigerette he was all but strip searched...because it was an extended stay he had two large 50 pound bags, one full of clothes and one of electronics and tools...plus his carry-on wheich had a mixture of both...everything was neatly packed and wrapped and packaged until he got to the airport =)...

anyhow, from his long and involved story i was thinking just the opposite, that airport security was at the other end of the spectrum...

as a side story, i was down in new orleans last weekend driving a big truck around the heart of town...not once the whole time i was there (about 5 days) did any LEOs look at me funny, much less ask to search my truck or person...i didn't actually go to the game, perhaps security was as tight as they said, but around the game sure as hell wasn't very secure...it's mostly just talk i think, sticking up their tail-feathers in order to look big and bad...there's no way in hell there's enough LEOs to search *everything*...
 

dougmccoy

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UK
Hi Guys,

Although I have been a paramedic for over 17 years I previously worked in security and I think i can give you an explanation why you got through Airport Security.

1) The memories of September the 11th are growing dimmer by the day.

2) The volume of people traffic will induce a subconscious feeling of apathy towards false alerts.(This is otherewise know as being complacent!)

3) As already noted after a time the enexpected becomes the expected. ie, if you dont look weird or foreign you aint a threat!

4) Security should have considerd any metal object a threat until proven otherwise.
(Obviously the security in this case was a joke!)

5) Human nature. Human nature being what it is will always return to the state of mind of (It cant happen to me!!!)

If this sounds depressing, it is. No one can prevent determined people carrying out terrible acts but we can and must always adopt the 'hat if principle'. Clearly in your case at the Airport in question the term security is being used as a front to hide inexcuseable apathy and incompetence.

Doug
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
so you placed all items on the xray machine and walked through the scanner as you are supposed to. what do you know about security? if you are a auto mechanic and i don't know squat, i'm not going to question your findings after i watched you do a diagnostic on my car and found nothing wrong, when i knew there was nothing wrong! you were hoping to get searched before you even got to the airport, and if you did, you'd be here bitc!!!! about that. a flashlight is just that. it's no more menacing than most utility items, and i'm sure security identified it as it went through. to be asked to be searched... well that's absolutely comical to me. you either needed the attention or needed to feel safe from yourself. i gotta tell you, if i was being delayed at the security check in because of your dramatics, i'd be more than a little pissed. i've been in the security field for 17 years and understand your personality type. apparently so did the soldier? who gave you the little smile. i know he was thinking the same thing i'm saying. i've got a surefire c-3 and g-2. even if i took an m-2 or other tactical light through security, i would not expect any special attention, nor would i want any. want to know the ironic part? you were probably tagged for special attention due to your weird behavior before boarding, when that attention would be better spent elsewhere. hope i never fly with you!
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daniel Ramsey:
I thought it was the use of profiling that everybody hates.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Publicly people DO "hate" profiling. But secretly, poeple think it makes sense. Does it?
 

Terrapin Flyer

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I recently flew to/from Chicago and left my M2 in my backpack on the way there. It went thru Xray review w/out a problem or comment, but I was randomly sampled for wanding & "shoe check". My buddy on the other hand lost his very small grooming scissors from his bathroom kit. I only bring this fwd to share a similar flashlight related security experience.

I'm not sure I would want to bring attn. to myself at airport security these days. Most assuredly databases are being built of individuals that are potential risks. I personally would not want to be included in it.

As well, why busy out security and distract them from finding real baddies because you, a good guy, feels security is not doing their job and you want more of their attention. Your distraction could be just what a bad guy needs to get thru unscathed. Voicing security concerns to the front line is like complaining to the fry cook at McD's (or any similar scenario) - always go for the superiors if you want something done and a behavior or practice changed. You really have no power over the front line folks, but their superiors do!
 

brightnorm

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Messages
7,160
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rmw:
hope i never fly with you!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

rmw,

I respect your 17 years in the security field, but your angry rant (the first such "flame" I've ever seen on CPF), is full of assumptions and pop-psych analysis. You have completely overlooked at least two key factors.

I don't think that this forum is an appropriate vehicle for your rage. If you have something to say that you feel strongly about, there are ways of saying it that are more in keeping with the tone of our normally civilised group.

.
 

brightnorm

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Oct 13, 2001
Messages
7,160
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:

I'm not sure I would want to bring attn. to myself at airport security these days. Most assuredly databases are being built of individuals that are potential risks. I personally would not want to be included in it.

As well, why busy out security and distract them from finding real baddies because you, a good guy, feels security is not doing their job and you want more of their attention. Your distraction could be just what a bad guy needs to get thru unscathed. Voicing security concerns to the front line is like complaining to the fry cook at McD's (or any similar scenario) - always go for the superiors if you want something done and a behavior or practice changed. You really have no power over the front line folks, but their superiors do!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JackStraw,

I think your points are extremely well-taken and have made me review my behavior.

Thanks.

Best regards,
Brightnorm
 

BuddTX

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Houston, TX
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>After claiming my things I went up to a woman guard and told her I was disappointed with security, that I carried several items that certainly looked unconventional, and that I was surprised I wasn't even searched. She said (with a smile): "You want me to search you?" I said "yes". So she did, gave me a clean bill of health, patted me on the back and told me not to worry. A well-armed, tough-looking Guardsman (or reg army soldier?) turned grimly toward me and smiled a little. I couldn't believe it..[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brightnorm,

Just FYI, it has been my experience to NEVER say anything referenceing security when going through the security at airports. This is WAY before 9/11/01.

Yes, we all know that a lot of the security is a joke, and some of the people are poorly trained and incompentent. BUT they also have the right to detain or arrest you if you give ANY indication of EVEN THE POTENTIAL (like making a stupid joke, "yea, I got a couple of m-16's under my t-shirt") of being a threat. Instead of just patting you down, they had the right to detain you for a long while (I don't know how long) while they thoroughly searched and questioned and researched you.

There was a guy, after 9/11 who got throught security with a pocketknife, and when he realised what happened, he went up to an officer and showed him what happened, presumably to show the officer that this was missed and the security should be doing a better job, but was arrested instead.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. I get to fly in March, and am "anxious" for that experience!
 

brightnorm

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuddTX:
Brightnorm,

Just FYI, it has been my experience to NEVER say anything referenceing security when going through the security at airports. This is WAY before 9/11/01.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


BuddTX

Thanks for that good advice.

Best regards,
Brightnorm

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Terrapin Flyer

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Traverse City, MI
Thanks Brightnorm, I appreciate that. By the way, my buddy who lost his grooming scissors was randomly checked at the gate as well. He needed a heart-to-heart chat over some suds to get him calmed. I too used to question authority, and still do from time to time, just not at the airport. Too much to lose, too little to gain. Words & phrases like detained, cavity search, arrested, security risk, database entry, and many others make me nervous and potentially disrupt my travel plans, arrival times and frequent flyer miles.

Perhaps our security forces should start everyday with a mandatory review of video footage from 9-11. They of all folks must never forget.
 

mikep

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IL
Shortly after 9/11/01, many news outlets sent reporters through airport security with forbidden items, knives, etc. Every network did some sort of "How secure are we?" report. The point that they all seemed to miss is that you can never prevent all potential weapons (you could stab someone with a wooden pencil) from making it on the plane. Heck, someone made the point that a trained martial artist is probably more deadly unarmed than I am with my biggest knife.
I don't know what the best approach to airplane safety is: background checks & screening maybe? Armed air marshalls?
I just feel that the supposed increased security at the metal detectors is more to give a false sense of security.

My point is, I don't feel any more or less secure because of your experience.
 

brightnorm

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Oct 13, 2001
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mikep:
My point is, I don't feel any more or less secure because of your experience.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mikep,

Unfortunately, I think your attitude is probably pretty realistic.


Best regards,
Brightnorm
 

lightlover

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rmw:
........................................................................................................................<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

rmw, that's pretty uncool by the standards of this Forum.


lightlover
Member # 260 CPF
 

WaltH

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Oct 30, 2001
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I recently traveled with my M3 in a carry-on and did not get a second look from security. I did not want any attention, just wanted to have my M3 with me. And was very disappointed that security did not catch it.
To the person who slammed brightnorm for this...you don't know what you're talking about. If you're the same caliber security I've encountered at the airport I'm surprised you could read this forum and understand it. If security is going to blindly let "flashlights" go through then that's the perfect method for someone to do something horrific. Load up an M3 with C4 and let 'er rip. Less than 50% of the security force at Orlando International has a high school diploma. And they're the ones protecting us? I feel better knowing I'm responsible for protecting myself and keeping a wary eye on people around me.
 

Gman

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The Ford Galaxy.
Don't get me started on this, I have to deal with it everyday.

Everytime we go through we have to remove our shoes, caps, ect. They take our pocket knives and nail clippers yet there is a crash axe in every cockpit. Besides, if we wanted to do something we have the airplane anyway.

In fact, a Captain with another line recently made this remark at a checkpoint and he was promptly arrested. I understand the need for security but this is an example of government stupidity and arrogance at its finest.

We are searched like everyone else. In the days of yore we just walked past. This ended many years ago when an employee (not crew) used his ID to board a flight armed, executed the supervisor he was angry with and then the crew, in flight.
 

brightnorm

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gman:
Don't get me started on this, I have to deal with it everyday.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gman,

It seems ironic that the people who are least likely to be a threat (you and your colleagues), are treated more severely than most passengers.It must be frustrating and even infuriating, not to mention demeaning.

Perhaps when those hi-tech scanners and detecters are finally in place hazardous object ID can be more efficient and less burdensome.

BTW,In that horrific incident you described, did the plane crash or was someone able to land it?

Best regards,
Brightnorm
 
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