Is there still a need for 15min charger?

With low self-discharge batteries like Sanyo Eneloop, Titanium Enduro, etc arriving at the scene, is there really a need for 15min quick charger?

I meant.....in the past, whenever we want to use our rechargeables NiMH, they are usually half depleted or almost flat due to self discharge after a few months. And then we had to really rely on our 15min chargers to bring them back to life in the quickest time (assuming we need them fast).

But now with new battery technology like Eneloop, we could just charge a whole bunch of these batteries using a normal 3~5hr cool charger during free time and store them for months or even a year and not worry about them losing power. When we need to use them, they still hold ~85% charge.

Hello Flame,

Interesting topic...

I will have to think about this for awhile.

Tom

If you don't need cells charged in 15 minutes, I guess not! The eneloop cell capacity is lower right now than the newer high capacity cells, so if you add that into the mix, how does that weight in??

With a 15 minute charger you could get a set of cells charged before a run-time test is completed!

But seriously, it depends on your needs. Digital cameras can suck batteries dry quite quickly (as well as some flashlights!). 15 min chargers can be handy for the high load, high use folks.

If you're using NiMH in a device used often enough to require frequent charging, then it would seem the lower capacity Eneloop would be the wrong choice of cell.

The advantage of low self-discharge rate is of no significance in applications that require a frequent recharge. The wait-time on those cells would justify the use of fifteen minute chargers.

Hi there,

I guess if you get into the situation where you forgot to charge some cells
and you need them right away then it would be nice to have the 15 min charger.
That's sort of what happened to me once, but then also i wanted to make sure
i went out the door with freshly charged cells.

The eneloops sound nice, and i dont mind the slightly lower capacity as i use
2200's now and dont seem to mind. A little less would be ok too, as long as
they are REALLY 2000 and not say one is really 1500.
I havent had any to test yet so i dont know how good the rating system is
for these cells. A local Circuit City wanted $15 USD for a four pack and i thought
that was too much and also i still have many other cells with cycles to use up yet.

Wal-Mart has the the Ray-O-Vac Hybrid cells, which purport to maintain 80% capacity after a year. I picked up some 2100 mAh AA cells and 800 mAh AAA cells for $8.97 per four pack. Thats quite a bit cheaper than the Eneloops, for something that seems to be almost their equal.

I strongly believe in Sanyo Eneloop technology and this thread is positive. 2-5hours cool chargers are indeed very healthy for Sanyo Eneloop(also normal NiMH). Charge them up and store them in the fridge or freezer to even lower the self discharge rate and also slows down chemical deterioration. This means, less charge cycle, longer service life!

I am a Eneloop fanboy(but I have too much normal NiMH so I didn't buy any yet...).

Hey that's me too ha ha, too many regular NiMH to use up first .

wasBlinded said:

Wal-Mart has the the Ray-O-Vac Hybrid cells, which purport to maintain 80% capacity after a year. I picked up some 2100 mAh AA cells and 800 mAh AAA cells for $8.97 per four pack. Thats quite a bit cheaper than the Eneloops, for something that seems to be almost their equal.

Click to expand...

It may be that RayOvac is simply reporting more realistic numbers. In SilverFox's Eneloop test they're already around 90% at 90 days. So maybe the RayOvacs are as good or better, for a cheaper price. Or maybe their numbers are equally hyped and they actually aren't quite as good. We'll have to wait until someone tests those. The problem is that testing self-discharge rate takes such a long time.

Here's a link to SilverFox's Eneloop test graph, it's in post #5:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1664622#post1664622

I always use a little 2.7" TV to bring with me into the kitchen during commercial breaks, so I know when the break is over and don't miss any of my shows. Before my Sanyo 30-minute charger, if the batteries wore out, I'd have to wait until the next day to have the luxury of worry free snacking and bathroom breaking during my shows, now I just have to wait a half an hour, which usually means I'll be ready for the next show! I know, it may sound silly, but there are so many good shows on these days and I hate to miss any important parts! Sure, I could have some Eneloop back ups, but that's just more money spent unnecessarily.

I had thoughts of getting a 15min charger initially, but after Eneloop, Enduro, etc arrived, I drop it. I already have a 2hr Sanyo charger, so instead of a 15min charger, I got a few packs of Eneloop, ready-to-use and long shelf life.They cost ~$11.60/4pc, but consider that they can be used ~1000 cycle.

I'm hoping Sanyo will introduce higher capacity Eneloop (maybe 2300mAh) in a year time. As usual, manufacturers always start with a lower capacity and move up slowly! Prices will probably come down with more battery manufacturers going into these low discharge batteries.:naughty:

With Eneloop, I see myself purchasing less E2 lithium AA. Lithium have long runtime and long shelf life, but they're so freaking expensive, ~$8.70/4pc for one-time-use.

It all depends on the use of the cells. I have friends, photographers who swear by these 15-30 min. chargers. The guys use powerful flashguns. On a busy working day they may go through a dosen sets of AA cells. Instead of dragging something like 48 cells they take 12 and one of these chargers.
In normal use I don't feel the need of a 15 minutes chargers. I have enough cells, and always have a spare set with a reasonable amount of charge in it. Even if I don't, placing the cells in an 1 hour charger for 15 minutes will give enough charge to power virtually any device I have for 1 hour, i.e. until another set is being fully charged

If a long Power outage and you used up all your batteries, you can use the 15min charger to charge your batteries using your car and 12v inverter.

Hi there,

glockboy, good point. It's a little bit of an advantage to be able to charge from
the car too.

I dont see how the cells can be tested for sd capacity because you have to charge
and discharge them a number of times to get a base reading on the cells, then
charge and let sit for three months and discharge and compare readings.
This sounds kind of difficult.

Keep in mind Eneloop and similar batteries are new, not yet prevelant on the market. Your statement may be correct in 1-2 years, not now, too soon. In fact Eneloops at least are much more expensive in many places.

That being said, indeed 15 min chargers will become a niche for high drain applications:
- (as mentioned) photography flash lights
- RC (racing cars and such)
- power tools
etc.

For the general purpose electronics you are correct. I am guessing 1-2 hour chargers will return. However, that is based on one significant assumption:
Production/retail cost of low drain Eneloop type batteries will be similar to the current types!!!!

Otherwise if they remain more expensive then .... it will be hard to tell.

Moreover, 15 min chargers and standard NiMH high self-dis rate batts may remain because:
1) people are clumsy and loose them well before they are dead (kids loose them, pets eat them,....
2) people have no patience and cannot be bothered with trying to keep track of SOC, so easier to insert into 15min charger before a use and know they are full
3) cheaper

In particular, #2 is a problem. Again, kids may use them without your knowledge. You think they are full, turns out they are half empty. So even with Eneloop type that have low self discharge rate, the other issue is kids, spouse,.... who lack your discipline and once again you are stuck with empty batteries.

I suppose the market will fragment into 2 segments:

#1 15min charger for the current type high capacity 3+ Ah
These will be cheaper, general purpose and high draw apps

#2 more sophisticated (like BC900) 1-2 hour chargers for lower capacity low self discharge types (like Eneloop)
These will be more expensive for more informed users (such as us)

I just don't think that the general public will care and/or be informed enough to pay extra for #2, hence they'll stick with the convenience and simplicity of #1

bob_ninja said:

I suppose the market will fragment into 2 segments:

#1 15min charger for the current type high capacity 3+ Ah
These will be cheaper, general purpose and high draw apps

#2 more sophisticated (like BC900) 1-2 hour chargers for lower capacity low self discharge types (like Eneloop)
These will be more expensive for more informed users (such as us)

I just don't think that the general public will care and/or be informed enough to pay extra for #2, hence they'll stick with the convenience and simplicity of #1

Click to expand...

I guess it is difficult to predict the market, but we should consider yet another possibility, i.e. that the Enellop-technology will slowly displace the old technology NiMH cells, something similar to NiMH vs NiCd (although NiCd still have their applications). If the low self-discharge cells could match the capacity of the usual ones in the future, it is not unreasonable to believe that the old technology NiMH will slowly be phased out. It is all to early to say providing that the new cells are not even available in many European countries yet.

One of My other hobbies is Metal Detecting & a 15 min. charger is a must for me. Also handy in power outages with a power inverter.