ARC AAA P issue.

Hi,
I've read numerous opinions about Arc AAA-P. Good reviews, test done (switching on and off thousands time) etc, etc etc.
Got convinced, and got one for myself, even used it for something like a year.

I still find it marvelous, that nobody has ever mentioned that this little critter physically damages batteries. To be exact it works like an vise:
1. twisty switch creates the force
2. hard/unelastic contact on the head can be viewed as jaw nr.1
3. hard/unelastic contact area in the battery tube can be viewed as jaw nr.2
4. small pin on the bottom of battery tume - now this speeds the damaging process greately.

So, when ARC is turned on the battery is getting squeezed and shortened (unelastic contacts), and after some time, the battery is so short that it is unable to touch both contacts at the same time.

That's a major flaw that makes ARC AAA-P unreliable.

Of course the solution is not to twist the switch to much, but this is no reasonable solution because my hands are not equipped with a built in torque spanner, and "too much" is very hard to measure.

Esthan said:

I still find it marvelous, that nobody has ever mentioned that this little critter physically damages batteries.

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It's a well known and documented issue, actually. I am yet to hear reports of the flashlight's circuit being damaged by it; the battery is a consumable.

No torque wrench needed; just twist the head until it turns on - not more, not less.

Personally I just turn the switch until the light comes on, then stop. I don't worry about pressure or anything--when it's on, it's on -- kinda like a light switch. No need to tighten any more than that.

I've carried mine almost a year and have never had the issue you mentioned--batteries always fit, light always works. It's probably the most reliable light I own--and that says a lot.

I've never heard of damage to the arc from this either, but have heard rumors that you could overtighten and damage the board. As greenLED says, batteries are consumable, therefore irrelevant.

Esthan said:

Hi,nobody has ever mentioned that this little critter physically damages batteries.

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I guess I'm NOBODY :laughing:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1619586

I've had friends who held mine on my keys when they needed light, then took it upon themselves to try and figure out how to turn it off instead of handing it back to me. Instead of unscrewing it like you'd think would turn it off, they twist clockwise, and when it doesn't turn off they don't try the other way, instead, they twist HARDER! Then I look and see them bending over and really torquing down on it like they are trying to unseal a jar of pickles!!! EEEEK.. I quickly tell them to stop and take it away. They look at me like "whats your problem?" I wonder if they would of tried stomping on it next to make it go out?

I'm amazed the circuit board hasn't cracked...

But yeah I threw out a battery once after they did that because it smashed a dent in there. It worked fine but didn't want a leak. Plus the battery was at around 1.0 volts anyways!!


But normal use, I never have any dents on it when I'm using it.

IsaacHayes said:

I'm amazed the circuit board hasn't cracked...

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The potting resing provides loads of crush resistance.

IsaacHayes said:

But yeah I threw out a battery once after they did that because it smashed a dent in there.

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Whenever my wife crushes the batt in her ArcAAA, I roll a small ball of tin foil and put it in the middle of the foam - problem fixed and I can continue to use the batt.

Yeah stock potting really helps with gforces, crushing, water proofing/etc. dented batteries might leak though... Mine always lit up no matter how dented the battery was. But mine is an older body and screws down a lot farther than some. Also my oring is hidden even with like 1 full unscrew from off!! I sure do like it. Thanks TiN for selling it to me back in the day! lol

prof said:

Personally I just turn the switch until the light comes on, then stop. I don't worry about pressure or anything--when it's on, it's on -- kinda like a light switch. No need to tighten any more than that.

I've carried mine almost a year and have never had the issue you mentioned--batteries always fit, light always works. It's probably the most reliable light I own--and that says a lot.

I've never heard of damage to the arc from this either, but have heard rumors that you could overtighten and damage the board. As greenLED says, batteries are consumable, therefore irrelevant.

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This issue does not happen in a second when the switch is "overtwisted", it's something like drops drilling the stone.
The batteries in my ARC were exchanged after 3-4 months or so (light has been used ca. 20 times a day). So each time i turned it on, the battery was getting an extremly tiny bit shortened, and after a while it is simply too much for the battery.

Esthan said:

So each time i turned it on, the battery was getting an extremly tiny bit shortened, and after a while it is simply too much for the battery.

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Me thinks you're overtightening to turn on.

I've had an ArcAAA in my keychain since early on after I joined CPF and not once I've had to replace a dented battery in my light. My wife, on the other hand, consistenly dents the batteries in her ArcAAA.

I put a tiny split ring in the barrel of my old Arc. Seems to help the battery make contact. Also, make sure to keep those theads wiped clean. It always seems to help.

Geoff

It happened to my wife before: The head contact needed cleaning and she twisted hard and harder but it wouldn't light up.

By the way, the Fenix E1 solves this nicely. Still, credit to the ARC, it has saved me trouble not just once, years before there was any Fenix.

The ARC AAA is a product for folks who appreciate it. It's not for everyone. I love mine, I'm careful with it, I give it any care it needs. And I love the one on my wife's keychain, will always do..

I don't see moderate battery dimpling/denting as a big problem with the Arc.

It's just a design consideration that needs to be accomodated by the user. However, this consideration DOES need to be understood by a casual user (i.e., non-flashlight person).

Another aspect of this "problem" is that AAA batteries vary in overall length. A previous thread pointed out that the nifty Energizer L92 lithium battery tended to be approx. 1 mm longer than most alkalines. This extra length, in turn, may well subject an L92 to more denting pressure in a new/tight Arc-P.

My new Arc-P is on its second Energizer L92 battery. Both have had minor dimpling on the (-) end. No problemo, though.

If your Arc is seriously biting into your batteries, consider trying different brands or carefully measuring them before installation. Arc's tolerances are pretty tight, so "tolerance stacking" aggravated by battery size-variations is a reality. OTOH, as the Arc's (+) solder blob and foam spacer "wear in'" Arcs tend to become more battery-friendly.

By the way, my battery-spring-system Fenix EO flickers. My battery-dimpling Arcs don't.

TonkinWarrior said:

Another aspect of this "problem" is that AAA batteries vary in overall length.
...consider trying different brands or carefully measuring them before installation.

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Industry standard tip to tail for the AAA is 43.3mm to 44.5 mm, a 1.2mm range of tolerance. I do not feel I need to sort my batteries for which ones will or will not work in the ARC.

Nor do I feel I should have to be especially judicious about how I turn the flashlight on or off, and who I lend the flashlight to.

This is an interestingly unique device. One that you can run a vehicle over distoring it externally, yet to make everyday use of it causes damage internally.

EngrPaul, I can't disagree with your good point about the Arc-P maybe being too battery-sensitive. For a flashlight whose main selling strengths are its reliability and durability, this battery issue is a concern.

The points I was trying to make are (a) this problem is related to the Arc's slight manufacturing variances -- with a design that may not allow such o.a.l. variances, and (b) the problem tends to go away as the Arc wears-in.

For many users (me included) this issue is tolerable given the light's overall features/benefits package. As consumers, we also have some attractive alternatives in this product niche, such as the Peak Matterhorn and Fenix EO/E1.

However, those alternatives also have their "issues" (i.e., Peak: mediocre regulation; Fenix EO: fussy spring/flickering; E1: horrible beam). After using all of 'em, I prefer the Arc. It's not perfect, but it just seems to get better with age.