The great changeover of 2002...

Looks like this is it. Time for the changing of the guard, so to speak. It can't be postponed any longer. The current computer is being changed out with the Toshiba that Artie Choke so graciously provided; and which several others provided software and hardware for.

The workload/backlog on my website shows no signs of being reduced, so it doesn't make sense to wait any longer. No matter when I do it, the downtime will be pretty much the same.

So with some luck, this will be my last post from this tired old computer; my next will be from a sparkling, shiny new Windows 2000 system.

Looks like it's gonna go something like this:
o Make a backup folder on C: and copy all e-mail & bookmarks into it.
o Check drives D: and E: for frequently-used programs; make identical folders on C: and copy.
o Physically dismantle the current setup without knocking over a lamp or kicking over a full cup of coffee.
o Connect and fire up the Toshiba, and be sure its BIOS can take a 13GB drive. If so, install it. If not, time to formulate a "plan b".
o Install network card in Toshiba if needed (the new modem already went in).
o Install Windows 2000.
o Reinstall everything that was lost to the now-unrecoverable Win 98 desktop. This would include such items as HTML editors, Netscape, FTP, Photoshop, Irfanview, Sidplayer, and MAME.
o Hopefully, at this time I can go back online via the Internet Connection Wizard, retrieve my AT&T account info, reinstall the dial-out program, and make sure email, FTP, & browsers all work.
o Finally, as time permits, install networking on the ProMetric system (this is hosted by the Gateway 2000) and link it with the Toshiba.

Optimistially, I'll be back in a few hours. If I hit snags, I might be gone for a few days.

Wouldn't it be great if somebody could come up with a truly simple way to migrate everything to a new machine? Oh, how I dread upgrade time....

Godspeed, Craig. I hope we hear from you again before the end of summer.

You dread upgrade time? I do that stuff for a living, buddy.

Mind you, I have the luxury of telling my users things like "Sorry, can't have that. It'll have to go." if an app or something looks too messy to transfer to a new system.

Good luck, Craig. Let us know how it goes, and if you need any help fine-tuning the finished prodcut. Win2000 is great once you get used to it, but its quite a leap from Win98, and has its own quirks.

Graham

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
Wouldn't it be great if somebody could come up with a truly simple way to migrate everything to a new machine?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

norton ghost.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
Wouldn't it be great if somebody could come up with a truly simple way to migrate ....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aloha Bob PC Relocator - slow, but safe and simple

It's quarter after four. I'm back, but after taking two steps forward, I took a hundred steps back.

Windows 2000 did *not* successfully install on the Toshiba. It got as far as shitcanning the previous OS, modifying the boot record, copying some files off the CD, and then rebooting - after that, the CD-ROM support vanished, so it could no longer load its files off the CD-ROM and therefore, could not continue the installation. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Manually booting off a CD-enabled Win 98 boot disk and attempting the install that way gave the same results. It progresses apparently normally up until it needs to perfrom its first reboot, then that's it. Same thing if I manually add CD-ROM support to CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT.
So that was the end of that. Let's try to put Windows 98 in there instead. Guess what? Windows 98 says "This machine is not qualified for installation of this software". Back to NT you go Toshiba, I guess you're gonna be a server now. The Toshiba is back in the same configuration it was when I got it - no harm done.

So it's back to my old machine. Only now, I'm still stuck at 640x480 with 16 colors, and none of my SiS mainboard drivers will install anymore. And it took two tries to put Windows back in. At least dial-up networking still works, so I guess it's a start. But I can't read any of the messages in 16 color mode because of the dithering. So I'll be back when I can figure out how to get my video drivers abck.

I sure wish the guy that did my puter could help you, I have a 3 year old trouble free Athlon 700mhz 40 gig HD, 256mgb RAM all plus more in a custom case with a 19" monitor, I could have gone to 1200mhz with my motherboard but slowere is safer, and I still run Windows 98 and a FULL Norton install for safety and a firewall program (main reason why it keeps going).

First I found its memory that allows you to sail along peacefully, even 128 may not be enough nowadys and its cheap, also the AMD chips seem more stable than the Pentiums.

#1 first priority is a good motherboard like an ASUS, try Tiger Direct for some good prices, if I was less involved with work I would have built you a PC, I did that over 4 years ago and used it for 2 years until I went to my current system.

An hour and 15 minutes later, and I'm hopelessly stumped at why I can't get out of 640x480 16 color mode. The monitor's right, the driver's installed, but it absolutely, positively refuses to let me change color depth or screen size. So now I can't even process or handle pictures or read web pages on this piece of garbage enemabag worthless urinal of a toilet bowl PC anymore. And CPF is unreadable on a 16 color screen because of the dithering.

Only thing I can think of is to swap monitors again and let Windows (yet again) re-do the drivers. But I need to get to bed, I have to be up at 8:30.

Hopefully I'll be able to read all the messages that have been left for me here by the time I return. :-/

Craig,

Did you try to install Win2k to a clean partition? It is not a good idea to try and install it over an existing OS.
From what was originally said, the hard disk originally in the Toshiba had an unused partition - did you try installing to this?

Also, CDROM support files are among the first files win2k copies during setup, so it seems strange that it couldn't see the CDROM.

The win2k install should go something like this:
Boot CD, select "run setup from CD" or something like that.
Win2k copies various files, then asks for some initial setup info (what partition, do you want to upgrade etc etc)
After telling it to do a new install to the partition you want, it should then go ahead copying *all* win2k setup files to the hard disk. after that you should get a message to take the CD out and reboot.
Then it will restart and go into the Windows part of the setup. After that it is just the usual plug and play type stuff.

If you can give me some more info on what went wrong, I should be able to help you.
Alternatively, give me your phone number and a good time to call, and I'll talk you throuhgh it.

Graham

Craig, I feel your pain. On my new laptop, I am trying to have dual boot between XP and 2000 (I like 2000 but not so much for XP), but neither me, or my dad (a computer programmer) know much about dual booting. My install of 2000 was sucessful, but guess what. On my 15 inch monitor, it uses about 10 inches or less, the screen is tiny. And guess what else. I don't have a CLUE how to fix it and neither does my dad. Plus, partition magic is being a pain in the arse and is not finishing my partitions, so it looks like I may ALREADY be formatting and using the recovery CD.

Spud

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
Did you try to install Win2k to a clean partition?

Also, CDROM support files are among the first files win2k copies during setup, so it seems strange that it couldn't see the CDROM.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Finally, after 12 hours (I started 13 hours ago, but I took an hour off to watch the season finale of digimon), I can see what the heck I'm reading. I ended up deleting all the display-related junk, purposefully installing a noncompliant driver, and then forcing Windows to install the correct one before it finally "took hold", but I'm still on the old, pissy, crashy computer.

As for installing Win 2000 on the Toshiba, I actually tried installing it on another hard disk, so as to not destroy the original NT install in case things went horribly wrong as they ended up doing. :-/
At least that part of my backup plan worked. The Toshiba is no worse for wear, and is back in the same condition it was the day I received it, and should do fine when set up as a server when I dive into the monster known as networking.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
The win2k install should go something like this (initial steps omitted)...
...it should then go ahead copying *all* win2k setup files to the hard disk. after that you should get a message to take the CD out and reboot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And this is where things take a turn for the worse. After this first reboot, it starts doing something with the files it just copied (as it should). A minute later, it needs a file off the CD-ROM to continue (cdrom0\i386\nt5inf.cat), and since the CD-ROM is no longer visible to the install program at this point, the installation is halted in a non-recoverable state. I say "non recoverable" not to indicate the install has to be re-run, but that it cannot continue past that point. Every time the system is restarted from this point on, the installation TRIES to take up where it left off, but it dies when it looks for that .cat file because it cannot access the CD-ROM.

Creating startup files (config.sys and autoexec.bat) with the CD-ROM driver in place doesn't do any good at this point, since the Windows 2000 installation routine bypasses them. And by this time, it's already destroyed any previous OS and its drivers that might have helped.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
If you can give me some more info on what went wrong, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's pretty much it right there. It can't load the product catalogue file off the CD (presumably, this is the list of hardware it indexes the drivers from and maybe the drivers themselves) and it ends up with a fatal error and reboots. Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, ad nauseum until I get tired of clicking the damn "click OK to restart your computer" button.

I also tried a second CD-ROM drive and had identical results. And it works when you boot off the floppy after selecting "boot with CD-ROM support" so I know the device itself isn't bad.

check to be sure you have the latest bios update.
many win2k install issues are often fixed with a bios update.
got a intergraph dual p2 450 box that was given up as junk because it would just reboot each time it went to the second screen in 2k startup.
bios update fixed it right up.
just make sure you dont loose power during the flash.back up the old bios.
do not try this in windows.
MUST use a clean dos or 9x bootdisk.
penalty for failure is a dead machine that may need a new bios if it does not have a boot block or recovery mode.

Once upon a time, I had the same problem doing an XP install. Maybe my unorthodox workaround will work for you. But...since I kept my hard drives as FAT32 formatted, it wasn't a problem. If Win2000 forces a format to NTFS, you'll have to try something different.

I installed the second hard drive (the one I wanted to eventually be my primary with the OS on it) as an additional drive on my system. I then formatted it (including sys files). Since my CDROM was working on the old OS and hard drive, I copied the new OS install CD to a new directory on the hard drive (call the directory something like 2000cd). If 2000 forces a NTFS format, you might need to make a small, separate partition on the drive for the CD files.

Once I had the CD files on the hard drive, pulled the old drive and set up the new one as primary and booted up the system with the install CD. When the setup routine crapped out yet again, at the same exact spot, all I had to do was point to the directory I'd made and away it went. I ended up having to repoint to that directory many times, but the system eventually got installed and THEN, as it went through plug & play install, the @)#$* thing found the CD and all has been well since.

Craig,

There is a fairly easy way to get around the CDROM access problem after that reboot. I'm not sure why it is happening - the BIOS may be the problem, as mentioned earlier.

Anyway, you can try this:

1. Boot into NT on the Toshiba
2. make sure the partition you want to install win2k into is formatted with NTFS and empty
3. From the Win2k CD, copy the i386 directory (including all subdirectories) to the empty partition. This is quite a big directory so it may take a while
4. When finished, try doing the win2k install again
5. If it asks for files again after rebooting, point it to the i386 directory on that drive - anything it would have gotten off the CD will be in there.

I can know its frustrating - I do it for a living, but trust me - getting Windows 2000 running will save you a lot of trouble in the long run - it is a very versatile OS.

I guess as a last resort, I can do a win2k install on a similar PC here, make a disk image with Ghost, and send you a bootable CD which will copy the image to your hard disk. Although there will be some hardware differences, Win2k will detect the different hardware and automatically install it. I don't like this method though. Also, It would be difficult to do it for a drive other than C:, so you'd need a clean hard disk.

Maybe I should just send you a hard disk with it pre-installed..

Graham

Yeah ... what Graham said!

A very quick update before I have to dump off again... If anybody emailed me with anything important between April 27 and last night, all of those messages have been lost. Yes, even the backups of my INBOX and SENT folders that I made just minutes before beginning the swapout were apparently consumed by the botched Windows 2000 installation - it wiped out everything on the drive labelled as a "backup", apparently thinking it was part of the previous Windows installation.

I've got a bunch more restoring to do, so I can't yet catch up on the day's CPF activity.

Craig,

I'm a bit worried about what has been happening with your attempts to install Win2K. A normal Win2k install won't delete anything outside of the directory you tell to install to (C:\winnt by default), unless you tell it to format the partition to be installed onto (even this is not the default selection - if the partition is already formatted, the default is to leave the file system intact)

I've done dozens of win2k installs, and have never had it remove any directories and data - there is certainly no reason why it would have touched a 'backup' directory on any drive, unless you selected the 'format partition' during the install process.

If you want to wait, I will setup a hard disk here with a reasonably simple Win2k install on C: and send it to you. All you would have to do is plug it into the Toshiba PC, and let it do hardware detection on startup.

No offense Craig, but it seems that Windows installations and you just don't seem to get along. Getting it preinstalled would be the best bet.

Graham

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
I'm a bit worried about what has been happening with your attempts to install Win2K. A normal Win2k install won't delete anything outside of the directory you tell to install to (C:\winnt by default), unless you tell it to format the partition to be installed onto (even this is not the default selection - if the partition is already formatted, the default is to leave the file system intact).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried to install it on a DIFFERENT drive, not the one that came with the Toshiba. I did it that way so I wouldn't f**k up the original NT installation that Artie invested his time, money, and effort into making. I don't yet know enough about drive partitions to feel comfortable in hazardous situations (as I've never used a partitioned drive before) so installing it on a whole, nonpartitioned drive was (supposed to be) less risky.

The drive used was the 13GB, single partition one that came out of my old system, and the only thing I instructed the Win 2000 install wizard to do was to do a completely new installation, rather than an upgrade from the original OS. I did not tell it to format anything, nor did I tell it to modify the existing file system. It said that if I continued, any previously installed Windows programs would have to be installed again, and that I could not restore the previous version of Windows if I continued, which is exactly what I expected. At this point, things were going fine.

Farther along the install (and before the first reboot), a message on the ticker at the bottom of the screen said "Deleting previous Windows installation and preparing to copy files" which is when I assume it also cleaned out my backups, and possibly when it deleted the CD-ROM drivers which live in the Windows directory.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
No offense Craig, but it seems that Windows installations and you just don't seem to get along. Getting it preinstalled would be the best bet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hate to admit it, but you may be right. Everything was just peachy until I decided it was time to leave Windows 95 in the dust. That's when the fecal matter struck the rotating air recirculator.

I guess the obvious thing to do now would be to completely reformat the drive that you are installing W2K on before attempting to reinstall it again.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
You dread upgrade time? I do that stuff for a living, buddy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Have no fear. Soon you'll dread what *I* do for a living, and we'll be on equal footing, once again.