Network/LAN suggestions

Ok, looks like the new computer is working well (only two crashes; neither one were fatal to the OS) and I've gotten most of my apps migrated. So now comes the next step: setting up the LAN, and I need some advice on which system would be best to use as a server, and which ones would be best as clients. Initially, I'm planning on connecting three computers. The following is how I typically use these systems:

Computer #1: The new Dell. P4/1.8GHz. Primary usage is for all things Web-related (browzing, writing web pages, etc.), for all graphics work, and for playing music in the background whilst I toil away. This computer is by far the most frequently-used machine; actively used up to 16 hours a day. Runs Win XP.

Computer #2: The Gateway 2000. PII/350MHz. Primary usage is for the ProMetric system. Hardware dongles are in place, eliminating the EPP port. There is also a security device in one of the PCI slots, and a video capture board in another. Little else is done on this machine except an occasional game of Wolfenstein 3-D. Typical usage is approximately 1-2 hours a day. Runs Win 98; may upgrade it to Win 2000 if the ProMetric doesn't object.

Computer #3: The Toshiba. PII/233MHz. Machine is currently unused (until I buy a hub for the monitor to share same with the Gateway), but I'm planning to use it with a spectrometer (connected to EPP port) and a recording DMM (connected to a COM port). I may also use this one to connect to a local, dial-up BBS on occasion (1-2x a week). Runs Win NT.

So the question is, when talking about a LAN hookup, which machine should serve which role? I just received the LAN hub (Thanks Lambda, non-sarcastically of course ) and I think I have enough Cat-5 to get at least the server and one client going right away without having to make a run to Office Depo in the pouring rain for more cable.

Suggestions?
Ideas?

From the sound of your individual computer OS loads, simple peer to peer networking will probably be your best bet. Rev-ing computer #2 to Win2K will help. Rev-ing both computer #2 and #3 will help more.

You will have to set up "shares" on your drives and establish access permissions so that you can gain access from the other machines.

When you install your NIC's you will probably need to add a networking protocol (like tcp/ip) and network client in addition to the NIC drivers.

what, exactly, is the server going to serv?

most home users you don't really need a 'server' per say, perhaps just for an internet gateway and these are better served by a router hub generally. what's your internet connection?

Craig,

Unless you want to run a server, or have internet available on all machines, you should be able to just plug the machines into the hub and talk machine to machine for file transfers, etc.

I believe there is a network wizard in Windows that will walk you through the process; but I don't have XP or 2000......

-Windows XP Interactive Training- Icon/ program, usually is with a Win XP system, already installed.

It was helpful for me to find out more about connection possibilities.

Not that I understand it all now, but it should be there on the computer.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by papasan:
most home users you don't really need a 'server' per say, perhaps just for an internet gateway and these are better served by a router hub generally. what's your internet connection?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I ran LANtastic years ago, you had to designate "server" and "client" machines, even if all you wanted to do was access the HD on a second computer or tell that computer to run some application. This is the limit of my knowledge on network operations.

All I want to do here is be able to suck data off the HDs on the other machines so I don't have to use floppies and to be able to move files larger than 1.44 megs.
For example, moving a 3-5 meg ProMetric chart now requires I zip it, copy it to floppy, transfer the physical diskette, copy it back off floppy, and unzip it before I can do a single thing with it. All of these steps could be eliminated if I can simply suck the file right off the ProMetric's HD and drop it onto this one.
The spectrometer is expected to produce similar files, and would require similar steps and more piles of floppies if it is installed on a non-networked PC.

Internet connection is via 56K dial-up, and is only needed on this one machine.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lambda:
...you should be able to just plug the machines into the hub and talk machine to machine for file transfers, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is *exactly* what I want to do. Nothing more. So this sounds like the best way to go, and probably the most hassle-free as well.

Craig

You should be able to us MS Client for Networking, which allows you to talk, machine to machine. In fact, you will not even have to "save" on one machine, and transfer to the second; you'll be able to save directly on to your Dell's hard drive

Craig, check out this article on how to set up your network:

network

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr Ted Bear:
Craig

You should be able to us MS Client for Networking, which allows you to talk, machine to machine. In fact, you will not even have to "save" on one machine, and transfer to the second; you'll be able to save directly on to your Dell's hard drive<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh-huh,.. This what "peer to peer networking" is... Not that I have any clue as to what I'm talking about tho...

basically, you just need to link the computers via coax with terminators or cat5 and a hub. then you add ipx with netbios or tcpip as a protocol (ipx w/ netbios is prolly easier for you, no ip addresses to worry about and it's a little faster (you need tcpip on the internet machine regardless of your lan protocol)) and add windows network client and file and printer sharing. name all the computers and put them in the same workgroup name. then you set up some shares on your computers (right click on a folder or drive and click 'sharing'). easy as pie.

note that sometimes it takes windows networks a little while to 'discover' one another. after you boot it may be 5-10 minutes before other computers show up.

Craig - Your prior experiences with LANtastic still apply to installations of Microsoft NT-2K-XP SERVER products (for Domains). When a machine is being set up with one of those opertating systems, its role has to be designated as Primary Domain Controller, Backup Domain Controller, or stand alone server. All "lesser" machines using MS Workstation, Professional or Home versions can only join a Domain as "clients".

Everything everyone said about a peer-to-peer (workgroup) based network being the most logical, versitile and trouble free approach to accomplish what you are trying to do is true. You can still informally "designate" and use a machine as a "server", but your other machines won't have to get permission from it to do even simple things such as boot and logon, like they have to in a Domain. You can control access permissions on each machine as you see fit.

It would be a good idea to designate a common workgroup name for all of your networked machines and put them all into it (MS changed the default name with XP, your other machines will probably be put into a workgroup called Workgroup by default when MS networking support is added). Keep the name as short as possible and don't use spaces (underscores are OK).

It might make life a little easier in terms of being able to get to things (particularly from Win9x machines) if you enable the Guest account on any NT4-2K-XP machines (it is disabled by default), but that raises potential security issues.

Up until now, the only machine that was vulnerable while you were online was the one you were using, but once all your machines are networked, scumbags will be trying to get to them as well. The XP machine can function as a gateway/firewall. Some say you should only bind TCP/IP to your dialup connections, and bind the ethernet adapters on your "intranet" (congratulations, you have one now!) via NetBeui since it's non routable, but there are flaws in that approach, particularly if drives are permanantly mapped. Incidentally, contrary to what some say, NetBeui can be installed on XP and does work (it's on MS distribution media in \VALUEADD\MSFT\NET\NETBEUI, but I'm not sure about a Dell CD-ROM).

Your machines will get set up by default with "Share Level Access" enabled when MS networking support is installed. "User level Access" can be used to limit access, but it can get messy and supposedly isn't that hard to hack.

Since you will have multiple NT technology based machines, make sure you either log onto all of them with the Same Username/Password, or with completely differnet usernames/passwords (i.e., don't try to to get from an NT4 machine that you are logged onto as Administrator/(no password) to an XP Pro machine where you are logged onto as Administrator/(with a password).

This stuff just goes on, and on, and on... Sounds like you're making good decisions and working hard at it, so you'll do fine because it is obvious that your momma didn't raise no fool. XP should prove more stable (regarding those 2 crashes) once you get everything installed, migrated and tweaked.

John

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MC:
-Windows XP Interactive Training- Icon/ program, usually is with a Win XP system, already installed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been fussing with the wizard for the last hour, and no matter what I do, it keeps insisting that the network cable is unplugged, when I know for a fact it isn't.

Right now, I'm only trying to get the Gateway (win 98 machine) connected to the Dell. I'll need to buy another outlet strip before I start messing with the hub and the third computer, simply because there's nowhere to plug the hub's power supply or the third computer in. I should not need the hub to link TWO computers together, right?

I believe you will need a crossover CAT5 cable if your only connecting two computers without the hub.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aso:
I believe you will need a crossover CAT5 cable if your only connecting two computers without the hub.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, Craig, to connect two machines without the hub requires a special cable that has two pins reversed at one end. Probably easier to just get that hub powered up and complete your own network........

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lambda:
Yes, Craig, to connect two machines without the hub requires a special cable that has two pins reversed at one end. Probably easier to just get that hub powered up and complete your own network........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I checked around this morning and found I do have a crossover cable - but that's not the one I used. No wonder it didn't work.

Finding AC power is going to be the biggest problem now. Two computers, and half a dozen instruments & power supplies plus digital cameras, rechargeable batteries, and the occasional set of LED Christmas lights eat up a lot of outlets. Five outlet strips going to 2 outlets (the only two in the house that are this close together), and they're all full. I'm already playing "musical outlets" with the oscilloscope, a computer, the ProMetric, and some battery chargers. Can't do that with a network hub. :-/

I have a distinct feeling I'll have part of the network up and running long before I have a power solution, unless I sh*tcan the Boogie Lights thingie and banish it to a remote part of the house. If I do that, I'll have a place to plug in the hub.

(Edit): About two minutes later. The "dying network" icon went away as soon as I had the crossover cable in place. Now I should be able to finish the setup as directed by the website given earlier in this thread.

(Edit again): Half an hour after that, success. But there's still no AC power available for anything else, so my suspicion was absolutely correct; that I'd have success with the network before having success with the power source. This will do just fine until I get the third computer and hub installed, and I'm so backlogged with the website, I'm honestly in no hurry to get that done.

Its nice to see this place back, thanks David W.

If you go for the multi outlets into the multioutlets type power distribution, try anfd make sure one furthest back in tree is surge protected or mains filtered in the one supplying the computers.But you arent the only one having lack of mains problems frojm the BBC`s site:

>>>In a church in Milan a seemingly devout couple spent hours bowed before a statue of the Virgin Mary, apparently deep in prayer.
But priests later found that the couple were in fact waiting for their mobile phone to charge from the socket used to power the statue's lights. The priests, however, offered forgiveness saying that "letting them charge their mobile was a bit like giving them a glass of water."<<<

Adam