Re: Tubular Kevlar for lanyards where heat may be an issue.

John N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
2,201
Location
Seattle
High tech cords/ropes (Spectra, Technora, Kevlar, Amsteel Blue, etc.)

[Title renamed. Was originally: "Re: Tubular Kevlar for lanyards where heat may be an issue."]

McGizmo on the SF board said:
I posted a note on this over on DarksBane as well.

Hotfoot pointed out the potential melting problem of nylon lanyards on the head of some of the SureFire Lights when a HOLA is used for extended periods of time.

Since then, I have been planing on making a removable, soft kevlar, lanyard ring for my M6. I found a good source for the
material at wirecare.com .

The material I used is the 1/4" TechFlex and it splices well. To be very anal about this, one could use PTFE thread such as Gore's Tenara if the whipping will be near a heat source.

More info on splicing can be found on my Spectra Splicing page. When time permits, I hope to make a titanium/ Kevlar holster for the M6.

- Don
Don, I'm curious if you could make boot laces with this stuff?

How would you keep the ends from unraveling?

Thanks,

-john
 
Last edited:

Darell

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
18,644
Location
LOCO is more like it.
You walk through fire a lot do you, John?
smile.gif


I'll bet heat-shink tube would terminate them pretty well. I've had good luck with adding a drop of super glue just before shrinking. Nothing will get that tube off after that!
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
John,

It would probably make great boot laces! To cap the ends, Shrink Tube with hot glue might work. I think I would slide a section of shrink tube up the lace, put a short section of wax on the lace, near the end and then dip the end in epoxy and make sure the kevlar got wetted out well. I'd then slide the shrink tube down over the epoxy and heat it up to shring the end and get it round. Let the excess epoxy drip out. After the epoxy set, You could cut the end back. The wax is just to keep the epoxy from wicking beyond where you want it.

That's one boot lace you won't be breaking!

EDIT: [ I see Darell beat me to it :) ]
 

John N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
2,201
Location
Seattle
From reading the quick blurp in the comparison, it doesn't sound like Kevlar would be optimal for this application as it seems to indicate that the fiber abraid one another. So while strong Kevlar isn't optimal for chronicaly dynamic situations.

However, since the context appears to be climbing, perhaps they mean it can't handle many falls which are very seriously dynamic events. After all, bullet proof vests get a bit of flexing as the person wearing the garmet moves.

On the other hand, boot laces probably put a bit of stress on parts of the cord.I also read something at one time that bullet kevlar vests don't do well when wet, but I'm not sure why.

Have any of your lanyards ever failed?

Hmmm.

-john
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Hi John,
I haven't had any lanyards fail yet but that really doesn't mean much. My experience with the high strength fibers has been in tthe marine industry; primarily sailing. Kevlar was the first of the new strong fibers and it had serious problems and failures. Due to it's extremly low stretch and elasticity, there were stories of hearing a kevlar rope breaking when bent on a small sheave, one strand at a time! Ping Ping Ping......

Technora has better properties and then there's vectran and some other new fibers out there now. Spectra has had wide spread success and its two weakness are creep under load as well as lower melting point (compared to aramids)

Kevlar is hydrophillic and that may be why you'fe heard that the vests don't do as well when wet. I don't know what is going on there.

For high temperature/ high strength fibers there aren't many choices. If high temperature isn't an issue for your boot laces, I think spectra would hold up better in the long run. I really don't think you will be breaking any of them. The kevlar is a nice flat tubular web, similar to the shoe strings. The 7/64" single braid spectra that I have used is a tighter round cord.

If anything, a caution should be considered in using these materials in so far that they are very strong and the "weak" link in a tether or lanyard system will likely be elsewhere and perhaps not weak enough.

I'm not sure if you want me to address boot laces or lanyards here but in either case, I suspect that the loads on the fibers will typically be well below the rated strengths of the materials and other considerations such as abrasion may have more bearing on the ultimate failure.

Rambling mode - off

Don
 

John N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
2,201
Location
Seattle
Thanks for your thoughts Don.

I wasn't particularly looking for a high heat application, but rather, your use made me think that there are probably new technologies out there (vs. nylon) for high strength, "bulletproof" if you will, utility cord.

Realizing that this is the case, I'm trying to see what the best materials are.

-john
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Hi John,

If that's the case, I think you will really like the spectra or dyneema (different trade names). Great on abrasion, light, floats in water, as strong as steel wire rope of the same diameter, doesn't stretch.

- Don
 

John N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
2,201
Location
Seattle
Yah, I saw the Spectra cord on Berkeley Point and might pick some up to play with.

Any idea how strong this stuff is? Could I support my weight if I needed?

Thanks,

-john
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Hello John,

The 7/64" Spectra has a break strength of 1200 pounds so under a controlled circumstance, I believe it would support your weight. I don't know how much you weigh or what kind of shock load you would incurr.
Some more info on the line can be found HERE.

The 1/8" is good for 1800 lbs. If you anticipate taking these lines to their limit, make sure you have some good splices. The Samson site has some splice recomendations. The simple splice I have shown would actually work in all likely hood but you would want to bury about 6" of the tail into the cover and stitch as well as whip the splice.

I keep about 30' of the stuff in my van for emergency tie down and lashing material. Spectra is slippery stuff so good knots are manditory!!

- Don
 

Darell

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 14, 2001
Messages
18,644
Location
LOCO is more like it.
Busbar writes:

Shot from the hip—material suggestion. Maybe 'compatible' heatshrink tubing—may approach temp and chemical resistance of kevlar... possibly worth investigation/field testing.



Irradiated Polyvinylidene Fluoride (PVDF) heatshrink tubing


http://www.google.com/search?q=polyvinylidene+fluoride+heat+shrink&btnG=Google+Search&num=20&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
http://www.raychemrpg.com/interconnect/tubing.htm "Kynar" Thermofit ('Fluoride') Tubing – exampli gratia, Raychem RW-175 or possibly RT-850 CLEAR
http://map3.msfc.nasa.gov/MAPWEB/tr/tr2_vcm_00367.html
http://www.morcofab.com/ams.html "3632B"


--scott
 

John N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
2,201
Location
Seattle
Yah, I was thinking in a non shock load situation.

Thanks for all the info!

-john
 

John N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
2,201
Location
Seattle
This stuff looks pretty cool for emergency use. It uses Technora for a 5000lb tensile strength in a 5mm package.

http://www.karstsports.com/newenteccor5.html

-john

[edit- When I had tried to order from Karst Sports they were out and didn't know when they would have stock. Here is where I ended up getting it at]

gearshop.com
 
Last edited:

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
John,
New England, Samson, Yale and Marlow all make some really nice cordage with the high tech fibers. A double braid has the advantage of using a cover of different fiber than the core. The dissadvantage is splicing double braid is much more complicated and in some cases, especially the smaler lines, not possible....... There is some cool stuff out there! Steel wire rope is being displaced more and more with synthetics.

- Don
 

dat2zip

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
3,420
Location
Bay Area
Don,

Got your two packages today.

Thanks
grin.gif
grin.gif
grin.gif
Thanks!!!

I followed your web site and made a short cord for one of my flashlights. Took a while, but, it came out great. A little uneven in some places and not the nicest looking job.

When I get a chance I'll send you some pics of my work.

Thanks again. You da man!
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
John,
That is a handy resource. I bought some spectra thread from them. Talk about a confusing industry! Thread sizes and needle sizes and numbers; totally confusing!

Wayne, glad you got the stuff and hope to see results :)

If you want a smooth transisition in the splice, you need to taper the ends.

- Don
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Hi John, On the issue of the strength of spectra (HDPE), see following photo:
Beam-rope.jpg


- Don
grin.gif
 

John N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
2,201
Location
Seattle
More cool rope/cord:

New England Tech Cord in 3mm (3100lbs), 5mm (5000lbs):
[haven't found a source for 3mm New England Rope Tech cord lately. 5mm is widely available]

Amsteel Blue rope in 1/4" (9200lb), 5/16" (13700lb), 3/8" (20400lb), 7/16" (23925lb), 1/2" (36250lb):
http://www.rockstomper.com/catalog/recovery/ropes.htm

-john
 
Last edited:
Top