It's time for a battery elapsed time display
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tron3
Banned
Re: It's time for a battery elapsed time dispay
Are you talking about such a thing built into the batteries? That is more trouble and more expensive than the batteries!
Stick to a regular analog battery tester to see if it is good under "load" conditions, and a cheap multi-meter if you want to know the voltage. That's what I do...loads of fun.
curtis22 said:
Are you talking about such a thing built into the batteries? That is more trouble and more expensive than the batteries!
Stick to a regular analog battery tester to see if it is good under "load" conditions, and a cheap multi-meter if you want to know the voltage. That's what I do...loads of fun.
Re: It's time for a battery elapsed time dispay
No.
The cost of the technology should not be built into each battery. There is no reason to pay for it again and again each time you buy a battery. It should be built into the flashlight. I can get a free watch at McDonalds that has the basic technology required. I think it's time to expect more from the flashlight suppliers.
tron3 said:
No.
The cost of the technology should not be built into each battery. There is no reason to pay for it again and again each time you buy a battery. It should be built into the flashlight. I can get a free watch at McDonalds that has the basic technology required. I think it's time to expect more from the flashlight suppliers.
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KWillets
Newly Enlightened
Could one of those microcontroller-type switched regulators do this? It seems like we're heading towards that level.
I was thinking that a controller like that could also manage battery charging from AC if the light is plugged in.
I was thinking that a controller like that could also manage battery charging from AC if the light is plugged in.
KDOG3
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yeah, I can see a little LED light display on the side of the flashlight to show 100/75/50/25/0 percent levels...
They exist in a few lights, I've seen some OK looking rechargeable Halogen types at Home-despot that has a 77 (dual 7-segment LCD) that shows how many minutes remain for that charge...(ahahhah, I got a SMJ-PR equiped host with a runtime in weeks...*sigh*)
I think Dorcy has one that has a Green/Yellow/Red type side indicator.
Personnaly, If its LED and efficient the runtimes are usually so long that its really only needed for high power lights. (1 Watt and above)
I think Dorcy has one that has a Green/Yellow/Red type side indicator.
Personnaly, If its LED and efficient the runtimes are usually so long that its really only needed for high power lights. (1 Watt and above)
This SOUNDS good. And, as much as I'd like that functionality, I think it will be impossible to make it impractical.
I say this because even with the load-based ZTS tester, there is an assumption of the battery discharge curve built into the test. So, fully charged (new) BatteryStation CR2 batteries show 10-20% capacity BECAUSE their discharge curve is different than whatever ZTS considers "standard". I think the ZTS standard may be Duracell - which is not a bad choice.
So I can't imagine a "remaining charge" indicator being accurate enough to be useful.
W.
I say this because even with the load-based ZTS tester, there is an assumption of the battery discharge curve built into the test. So, fully charged (new) BatteryStation CR2 batteries show 10-20% capacity BECAUSE their discharge curve is different than whatever ZTS considers "standard". I think the ZTS standard may be Duracell - which is not a bad choice.
So I can't imagine a "remaining charge" indicator being accurate enough to be useful.
W.
LightBright
Enlightened
It can be done, there are Coulomb counters (basically measures power available vs. power being used, calculates power remaining) and so forth, then you have to drive a display, plus the display has to be rugged. The feature would make the light VERY expensive $$$$.
AndyTiedye
Flashlight Enthusiast
Macintosh laptop batteries have a state-of-charge indicator built in to the battery
(in addition to what the laptop itself does to monitor battery state).
(in addition to what the laptop itself does to monitor battery state).
NewBie
*Retired*
Lots of nice chips have this function built in, an example:
The bqJUNIOR™ series are highly accurate stand-alone single-cell Li-Ion and Li-Pol battery capacity monitoring and reporting devices targeted at space-limited, portable applications. The IC monitors a voltage drop across a small current sense resistor connected in series with the battery to determine charge and discharge activity of the battery. Compensations for battery temperature, self-discharge, and discharge rate are applied to the capacity measurments to provide available time-to-empty information across a wide range of operating conditions. Battery capacity is automatically recalibrated, or learned, in the course of a discharge cycle from full to empty. Internal registers include current, capacity, time-to-empty, state-of-charge, cell temperature and voltage, status, and more.
The bqJUNIOR can operate directly from single-cell Li-Ion and Li-Pol batteries and communicates to the system over a HDQ one-wire or I2C serial interface.
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/bq27000.html
Since that one came out, years ago, the technology has advanced:
Patented Impedance Track™ Technology Accurately Measures Available Charge in Li-Ion and Li-Polymer Batteries
Better than 1% Error Over Lifetime of the Battery
Instant Accuracy — No Learning Cycle Required
Automatically adjusts for battery aging, battery self discharge and temperature inefficiencies
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/bq20z90.html
There are hundreds of more options to choose from out there.
The bqJUNIOR™ series are highly accurate stand-alone single-cell Li-Ion and Li-Pol battery capacity monitoring and reporting devices targeted at space-limited, portable applications. The IC monitors a voltage drop across a small current sense resistor connected in series with the battery to determine charge and discharge activity of the battery. Compensations for battery temperature, self-discharge, and discharge rate are applied to the capacity measurments to provide available time-to-empty information across a wide range of operating conditions. Battery capacity is automatically recalibrated, or learned, in the course of a discharge cycle from full to empty. Internal registers include current, capacity, time-to-empty, state-of-charge, cell temperature and voltage, status, and more.
The bqJUNIOR can operate directly from single-cell Li-Ion and Li-Pol batteries and communicates to the system over a HDQ one-wire or I2C serial interface.
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/bq27000.html
Since that one came out, years ago, the technology has advanced:
Patented Impedance Track™ Technology Accurately Measures Available Charge in Li-Ion and Li-Polymer Batteries
Better than 1% Error Over Lifetime of the Battery
Instant Accuracy — No Learning Cycle Required
Automatically adjusts for battery aging, battery self discharge and temperature inefficiencies
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/bq20z90.html
There are hundreds of more options to choose from out there.
jezzyp
Enlightened
A lot of rechargeable shavers now have a battery/time left LCD so they are available in a mass market goods- It wouldn't take much to put this onto a production light.
metalhed
Enlightened
NewBie is absolutely correct (of course.) I have published a number of press releases for charger ICs and battery monitor ICs. There's no doubt that the technology exists to do this in a production light, and at very little added cost to the manufacturer.
The problem is the marketplace. The vast majority of flashlights sold worldwide are commodity items...relatively inexpensive incandescent lights that you find in all sorts of retail stores. Think about the more innovative manufacturers we see talked about here on CPF. One of the reasons you don't see products on retail shelves from some of the better (in our view) manufacturers is that they simply aren't mass-market items. In most cases, the manufacturers in question would be hard-pressed to supply the inventory volumes necessary for a major retailer to carry their products...regardless of the price of the light. Now add in that the average flashlight user considers a Maglite to be the upper end of the flashlight market price-wise , and you have some serious marketplace limitations.
For instance, we own a electric toothbrush that uses inductive charging (I think that's the right term) where the unit sits on a plastic stub to charge...no physical plug or direct connection. Yet I've never seen this approach to charging on a flashlight. (It doesn't mean they don't exist, just that I've never seen or read of one.) I know of no reason the technology isn't used in flashlights...except for cost. Our toothbrush cost $70.00. Most consumers would faint if they saw a $70.00 flashlight.
When general consumers begin to lift their price expectations for things like higher-end flashlights, and we begin to see more high-quality lights in retail environments, large manufacturers will be more motivated to innovate.
Right now, unfortunately, mass market makers are content with repackaging existing technology in neat new colors and shapes. And, IMHO, it will remain that way until the general marketplace demands more, and by extension, until profit margins make real innovation worthwhile.
Someday we'll begin to see things like monitoring ICs in production lights for the general public. But I doubt it will be tomorrow.
The problem is the marketplace. The vast majority of flashlights sold worldwide are commodity items...relatively inexpensive incandescent lights that you find in all sorts of retail stores. Think about the more innovative manufacturers we see talked about here on CPF. One of the reasons you don't see products on retail shelves from some of the better (in our view) manufacturers is that they simply aren't mass-market items. In most cases, the manufacturers in question would be hard-pressed to supply the inventory volumes necessary for a major retailer to carry their products...regardless of the price of the light. Now add in that the average flashlight user considers a Maglite to be the upper end of the flashlight market price-wise , and you have some serious marketplace limitations.
For instance, we own a electric toothbrush that uses inductive charging (I think that's the right term) where the unit sits on a plastic stub to charge...no physical plug or direct connection. Yet I've never seen this approach to charging on a flashlight. (It doesn't mean they don't exist, just that I've never seen or read of one.) I know of no reason the technology isn't used in flashlights...except for cost. Our toothbrush cost $70.00. Most consumers would faint if they saw a $70.00 flashlight.
When general consumers begin to lift their price expectations for things like higher-end flashlights, and we begin to see more high-quality lights in retail environments, large manufacturers will be more motivated to innovate.
Right now, unfortunately, mass market makers are content with repackaging existing technology in neat new colors and shapes. And, IMHO, it will remain that way until the general marketplace demands more, and by extension, until profit margins make real innovation worthwhile.
Someday we'll begin to see things like monitoring ICs in production lights for the general public. But I doubt it will be tomorrow.
how about these http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2775 maybe crude but cheap.
