D
**DONOTDELETE**
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****KT\'s Corner Table****
McGizmo PR-917 w/Surefire E2 1st Impressions
I will refer to this custom-built flashlight as the PR-917*E2.
Don "McGizmo" McLeish graciously offered to provide me this light in another post where we had disccused the merits of the Surefire L4 Lumamax. I was provided a L4 for eval by an underling. I tested it briefly but, because I had several other incandescent lights that I promised to give my attention, I deferred my review. However, I responded to the L4 thread prematurely by describing how it lacked throw.
I don't ordinarily comment on a flashlight's performance until I had opportunities to actually use it in conjunction with tasks related to tactical engagements. I opted to comment on the L4 because it is the first regularly mass-produced LED flashlight that even approaches a level of light output suitable for tasks where a firearm may be deployed.
My primary reservation with the Surefire L4 Lumamax is that its output is not adequately concentrated enough to provide a projected spot small enough to place it on the center mass (the torso of an average human) of the target at distances typically between 21 to 30 feet. This criteria immediately demarkates the usage of handguns with barrels of 2 to 5 inches. This barrel length range is that typical of handguns ordinarily carried on-body for defensive purposes through those provided as primary duty sidearms for those in uniform.
For this evaluation, I will be using my defacto standard ASP Taclite; a flashlight that I have been carrying and using for almost six continuous years. The Taclite replaced my previous standard; the old style Surefire 6P with the 65-lumen, P60 lamp assembly. I began using the 6P in 1989 because it had the best combination of high output AND small physical size.
I switched to the ASP Taclite in 1997 because it had the capability of adjustment to a very narrow spot. I prefer this output because of the criteria in the next paragraph. In 2001, I discovered the "tear-drop" shape of the next generation, externally-focused tactical lights called the Triad offered by the same maker. In the Triad, the new bulb is underwhelming. However, when placed in the internally-focusable Taclite, its output is capable of being concentrated to such a small projected spot that it rivals those flashlight products equipped with a turbo lamp assembly.
I began evaluating this category flashlights in 1998; providing written results of my findings. One criteria that I use and have found to be a practical standard measurement is what I call the DSR . This unit of measure is the Distance to Spot Ratio. Is is the ratio of the distance (feet) between the lens of the flashlight and the torso of the target to the diameter of the light product projected spot as displayed on the torso of the average (defined as a 5' 9", 160 lb.) male.
The DSR does not account for such technical measures as lumen and/or peak beam candlepower. In over 40 years of using a portable, handheld flashlight in conjunction with a firearm, I never heard anyone say "...ooh, I was successful at stopping the perpetrator with the assistance of 35 peak beam candlepower estimated at 142.5 lumens." I have, however, heard "...yeah I painted his chest with d'light before I dropped his sorry *** with a .45 Corbon" (unofficially, of course).
Among other publications, I believe that credit goes to the FBI's annual Uniform Crime Report (UCR) for establishing that the typical defensive civilian handgun firefight occur at an average (i.e. mode; for you statistically-inclined) distance of 21 feet. The average (median) width of an adult male torso is about 2 feet. If the distance when the flashlight was used was 21 feet and diameter of the projected spot on the torso is 2 feet, the DSR is 10.5:1.
Flashlights with DSRs of greater than 15 risk not providing enough spill or area lighting that establishing field of fire is more difficult without ambient, parasitic lighting. DSRs of less than 6 entails that throw is inadequate and places the operator too close to the target. Remember that what remains constant is that the desired hotspot is 2 feet or less in diameter at a minimum fighting distance of 21 feet.
Have I obfuscated the topic enough? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
I am a member of several other internat BBs that regularly discuss fighting methods and techniques. I have only posted to this BB in the last 18 months. I am certain that a few CPF members whom are also members of those BBs will refer to this post with much amusement.
Folks, DSR is nothing fancy. It is not something that I regularly think about; certainly not if I find myself in a circumstance when I have to use a firearm. It is a concept that has allowed me to choose the performance from a flashlight that I feel that I will eventually need in order to survive an altercation involving the use of a firearm. It is a performance criteria that I have already determined and have trained with so that if and when that unfortunate scenario occurs, I feel that I already have the tools to help me survive.
To those technical types on this BB that will dissect the DSR info, please keep in mind that the operator will have about 1.5 seconds to decide when to pull the trigger. Is your flashlight's performance suitable to the task?
Anyway, on to frst impressions...
The PR head is much smaller than the existing CPF photos depict it to be mainly because the Surefire E2 boby is tiny. The length of the entire light is about 5 inches. The width of the palms of my hands is 5 inches. I can wrap my hands completey around the entire light so that in certain angles, it cannot be seen by the casual observer. This is an advantage to some and a disadvantage to a few like me. I can "palm" a basketball. There is not much to hold on to with the PR917*E2.
The color of the PR head is flat and almost appears to be a really dark OD as compared to the E2 body's shiny black annodizing. LED looks a little out of place sitting deep within the modified stochactic Pelican reflector; looking almost like the base of a burned-out bulb. The shiny collar and tab are striking in color next to the all that black annodizing. My preference is black (surprise, surprise) for these parts.
The belt clip, also in black is of the highest quality that I have used. I have carried many cell phones and 2 way radios with with various clips of questionable performance. The lithmus test is is to clip a light, radio, or phone and determine if the clip will stay on your belt when you first sit in your automobile seat. I tried this one and it never failed to dislodge from my heavy 1.25-inch width double-lined sharskin belt.
The fit and finish of the PR head is flawless; attesting to the maker's deft touch with a lathe. The maker is in the same league as custom craftsmen such as Reeve & Mayo (blades), Rosen & Sparks (leather), & Baer & Brown (1911s) [just to name a select whom I have had the pleasure of sampling their work].
The DSR measurement will take place as night falls.
The maiden field test will occur when I visit with a friend at a large metropolitan airport tonight.
All this for a flashlight, you say. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
So far, I like what has been provided to me. The true test is when the PR917*E2 dukes it out with the ASP Taclite tonight.
To paraphrase Charlie's (MrBulk) quote; "...none of this will matter in a..." week. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
***********************************************
Older posts in this thread were archived by KT.
_______________________________________________
<img src="http://www.pelican.com/product/m6.jpg" alt=" - " />
According to the Pelican website.
"The M6 is packaged with a free Cordura® holster and 2 CR123 Lithium batteries. Colors: Black and Silver. Catalog #2320. AVAILABLE JANUARY 2003" Cost should be about $65.00 according to customer service.
Pelican M6 webpage
"I don't know if I can trust a companys first attempt at a 123 lithium light."
This technology is not new by any means, and it certainly is not 'rocket science.' Short aluminum tube, light bulb, batteries, and switch.
Prudence dictates a thorough evaluation of similar existing products. Pelican has likely dissected the half-dozen or so 2-CR123 powered, xenon-bulbed flashlights currently available for purchase to the general public. Operating system-wise, it will likely not differ substantially (if at all) from those similar products.
Aesthetically, looks like Pelican has decided to keep the familiar octagonal (or is it hexagonal) lines. It appears to be not as prominent as the hex bezel profile found on Surefire products. (I've discussed my dislike for the hex bezel from a 'function first' standpoint).
I will necessarily look for a reliable switch. Flashlights designed to be sold to the market at which this product is aimed better be, first and foremost, reliable; functioning each and every time I depress the switch. If not, Pelican engineers have not done their job.
I'm curious about the reflector. Will it have a mirrored one in the same 'vein' as its bretheren such as the Super Mytilite, or faceted such as those on Surefire products? My guess is the mirrored variety that will provide a narrower beam, smaller and more intense hotspot, and greater throw.
Al, does the photograph in the first post resemble the prototype you saw in Vegas?
MSRP is $65.00; wise choice by Pelican. That means it can be purchased for a lower priice by the time it hits retailer's shelves. Why?, because it would be in Pelican's best interest to also offer it to the general public at that reasonable price in today's soft economy. The Pelican gubmint sales rep can then have modicum assurance that the product will be supported if overall sales is good. I suspect that sales for the Black Knight product line is still marginal. This is a bold move by Pelican.
Returning to aesthetics, I suspect that Pelican have not spent too much time on looks judging from the MSRP. Fine with me. Function first in my book.
Where does this product fit in my battery of lights? It won't likely replace the ASP Taclite. It might supplant the Surefire M2. But then again I haven't used either one very consistently since May of this year. Will I buy one? If I had a need that the Taclite or M2 does not currently fill, probably. Will I evaluate it? Likely. Except for the last couple of days because I've been writing other stuff, I don't have the time but have had three requests to do so already.
McGizmo PR-917 w/Surefire E2 1st Impressions
I will refer to this custom-built flashlight as the PR-917*E2.
Don "McGizmo" McLeish graciously offered to provide me this light in another post where we had disccused the merits of the Surefire L4 Lumamax. I was provided a L4 for eval by an underling. I tested it briefly but, because I had several other incandescent lights that I promised to give my attention, I deferred my review. However, I responded to the L4 thread prematurely by describing how it lacked throw.
I don't ordinarily comment on a flashlight's performance until I had opportunities to actually use it in conjunction with tasks related to tactical engagements. I opted to comment on the L4 because it is the first regularly mass-produced LED flashlight that even approaches a level of light output suitable for tasks where a firearm may be deployed.
My primary reservation with the Surefire L4 Lumamax is that its output is not adequately concentrated enough to provide a projected spot small enough to place it on the center mass (the torso of an average human) of the target at distances typically between 21 to 30 feet. This criteria immediately demarkates the usage of handguns with barrels of 2 to 5 inches. This barrel length range is that typical of handguns ordinarily carried on-body for defensive purposes through those provided as primary duty sidearms for those in uniform.
For this evaluation, I will be using my defacto standard ASP Taclite; a flashlight that I have been carrying and using for almost six continuous years. The Taclite replaced my previous standard; the old style Surefire 6P with the 65-lumen, P60 lamp assembly. I began using the 6P in 1989 because it had the best combination of high output AND small physical size.
I switched to the ASP Taclite in 1997 because it had the capability of adjustment to a very narrow spot. I prefer this output because of the criteria in the next paragraph. In 2001, I discovered the "tear-drop" shape of the next generation, externally-focused tactical lights called the Triad offered by the same maker. In the Triad, the new bulb is underwhelming. However, when placed in the internally-focusable Taclite, its output is capable of being concentrated to such a small projected spot that it rivals those flashlight products equipped with a turbo lamp assembly.
I began evaluating this category flashlights in 1998; providing written results of my findings. One criteria that I use and have found to be a practical standard measurement is what I call the DSR . This unit of measure is the Distance to Spot Ratio. Is is the ratio of the distance (feet) between the lens of the flashlight and the torso of the target to the diameter of the light product projected spot as displayed on the torso of the average (defined as a 5' 9", 160 lb.) male.
The DSR does not account for such technical measures as lumen and/or peak beam candlepower. In over 40 years of using a portable, handheld flashlight in conjunction with a firearm, I never heard anyone say "...ooh, I was successful at stopping the perpetrator with the assistance of 35 peak beam candlepower estimated at 142.5 lumens." I have, however, heard "...yeah I painted his chest with d'light before I dropped his sorry *** with a .45 Corbon" (unofficially, of course).
Among other publications, I believe that credit goes to the FBI's annual Uniform Crime Report (UCR) for establishing that the typical defensive civilian handgun firefight occur at an average (i.e. mode; for you statistically-inclined) distance of 21 feet. The average (median) width of an adult male torso is about 2 feet. If the distance when the flashlight was used was 21 feet and diameter of the projected spot on the torso is 2 feet, the DSR is 10.5:1.
Flashlights with DSRs of greater than 15 risk not providing enough spill or area lighting that establishing field of fire is more difficult without ambient, parasitic lighting. DSRs of less than 6 entails that throw is inadequate and places the operator too close to the target. Remember that what remains constant is that the desired hotspot is 2 feet or less in diameter at a minimum fighting distance of 21 feet.
Have I obfuscated the topic enough? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
I am a member of several other internat BBs that regularly discuss fighting methods and techniques. I have only posted to this BB in the last 18 months. I am certain that a few CPF members whom are also members of those BBs will refer to this post with much amusement.
Folks, DSR is nothing fancy. It is not something that I regularly think about; certainly not if I find myself in a circumstance when I have to use a firearm. It is a concept that has allowed me to choose the performance from a flashlight that I feel that I will eventually need in order to survive an altercation involving the use of a firearm. It is a performance criteria that I have already determined and have trained with so that if and when that unfortunate scenario occurs, I feel that I already have the tools to help me survive.
To those technical types on this BB that will dissect the DSR info, please keep in mind that the operator will have about 1.5 seconds to decide when to pull the trigger. Is your flashlight's performance suitable to the task?
Anyway, on to frst impressions...
The PR head is much smaller than the existing CPF photos depict it to be mainly because the Surefire E2 boby is tiny. The length of the entire light is about 5 inches. The width of the palms of my hands is 5 inches. I can wrap my hands completey around the entire light so that in certain angles, it cannot be seen by the casual observer. This is an advantage to some and a disadvantage to a few like me. I can "palm" a basketball. There is not much to hold on to with the PR917*E2.
The color of the PR head is flat and almost appears to be a really dark OD as compared to the E2 body's shiny black annodizing. LED looks a little out of place sitting deep within the modified stochactic Pelican reflector; looking almost like the base of a burned-out bulb. The shiny collar and tab are striking in color next to the all that black annodizing. My preference is black (surprise, surprise) for these parts.
The belt clip, also in black is of the highest quality that I have used. I have carried many cell phones and 2 way radios with with various clips of questionable performance. The lithmus test is is to clip a light, radio, or phone and determine if the clip will stay on your belt when you first sit in your automobile seat. I tried this one and it never failed to dislodge from my heavy 1.25-inch width double-lined sharskin belt.
The fit and finish of the PR head is flawless; attesting to the maker's deft touch with a lathe. The maker is in the same league as custom craftsmen such as Reeve & Mayo (blades), Rosen & Sparks (leather), & Baer & Brown (1911s) [just to name a select whom I have had the pleasure of sampling their work].
The DSR measurement will take place as night falls.
The maiden field test will occur when I visit with a friend at a large metropolitan airport tonight.
All this for a flashlight, you say. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
So far, I like what has been provided to me. The true test is when the PR917*E2 dukes it out with the ASP Taclite tonight.
To paraphrase Charlie's (MrBulk) quote; "...none of this will matter in a..." week. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif
***********************************************
Older posts in this thread were archived by KT.
_______________________________________________
<img src="http://www.pelican.com/product/m6.jpg" alt=" - " />
According to the Pelican website.
"The M6 is packaged with a free Cordura® holster and 2 CR123 Lithium batteries. Colors: Black and Silver. Catalog #2320. AVAILABLE JANUARY 2003" Cost should be about $65.00 according to customer service.
Pelican M6 webpage
"I don't know if I can trust a companys first attempt at a 123 lithium light."
This technology is not new by any means, and it certainly is not 'rocket science.' Short aluminum tube, light bulb, batteries, and switch.
Prudence dictates a thorough evaluation of similar existing products. Pelican has likely dissected the half-dozen or so 2-CR123 powered, xenon-bulbed flashlights currently available for purchase to the general public. Operating system-wise, it will likely not differ substantially (if at all) from those similar products.
Aesthetically, looks like Pelican has decided to keep the familiar octagonal (or is it hexagonal) lines. It appears to be not as prominent as the hex bezel profile found on Surefire products. (I've discussed my dislike for the hex bezel from a 'function first' standpoint).
I will necessarily look for a reliable switch. Flashlights designed to be sold to the market at which this product is aimed better be, first and foremost, reliable; functioning each and every time I depress the switch. If not, Pelican engineers have not done their job.
I'm curious about the reflector. Will it have a mirrored one in the same 'vein' as its bretheren such as the Super Mytilite, or faceted such as those on Surefire products? My guess is the mirrored variety that will provide a narrower beam, smaller and more intense hotspot, and greater throw.
Al, does the photograph in the first post resemble the prototype you saw in Vegas?
MSRP is $65.00; wise choice by Pelican. That means it can be purchased for a lower priice by the time it hits retailer's shelves. Why?, because it would be in Pelican's best interest to also offer it to the general public at that reasonable price in today's soft economy. The Pelican gubmint sales rep can then have modicum assurance that the product will be supported if overall sales is good. I suspect that sales for the Black Knight product line is still marginal. This is a bold move by Pelican.
Returning to aesthetics, I suspect that Pelican have not spent too much time on looks judging from the MSRP. Fine with me. Function first in my book.
Where does this product fit in my battery of lights? It won't likely replace the ASP Taclite. It might supplant the Surefire M2. But then again I haven't used either one very consistently since May of this year. Will I buy one? If I had a need that the Taclite or M2 does not currently fill, probably. Will I evaluate it? Likely. Except for the last couple of days because I've been writing other stuff, I don't have the time but have had three requests to do so already.
