Flashers last Stand :)

I have been very civil throughout this whole thing I was only trying to make a point. I am if you could not figure it out a long-standing member with hundreds of post. This is only to keep me from being cencered (looks like it was the right thing to do) to me it looks like the Moderator/administrators are the one's out of control and losing their heads. Everyone had better read this quick and make copies I am sure it will be censored as well. (Not that DW doesn't have the right to do so it is his board) Lets answer Sasha first you want us to prove something that can't be proven, so ya you must have fallen off something. Prove to me that a sixty thousand-dollar BMW is better than my thirty thousand dollar Chevy Blazer. You can't they are very different with very different uses, end of discussion. As far as having a problem with someone's preferences I do not, just the fact that all they ever do is badmouth every other product. If you want to defend someone do it on the facts, not the fact that he is a moderate and you feel you need to.

For those who are interested here it is the lost post.

From the Mag thread
First this was not a personal attack, I used no bad language are even a name, Yet you all seemed to know who it was about (weird Hmm?). Next Arc enthusiast have they're own Forum and stay there to talk about their lights. I am merely saying that there is a place to just talk about Surefire lights so why not use it. It took about five minutes to look up some of your post so lets take a look.

Size15s
Administrator
Member # 24

posted 07-15-2002 03:48

Does the scratch impact on the Beam Quality in a way that will either hinder your use, or niggle you?
If not, why worry? The UltraStinger will get scratched and worn soon enough. Some consider this personalization, giving a flashlight character. It shows that you use your tools, and that they get used lots.
On the other hand, why should you have to make do with a flashlight that gets scratched and worn so easily? Surely a tool designed to be used should be able to withstand general use?
I assume you got an UltraStinger because it produces a bright tight beam, and is a little bit smaller then a hulking MagCharger or SL35X. Oh, and it's cheap.
Al

Posts: 1503 | From: WGC, England | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP:

Size15s
Administrator
Member # 24

posted 07-16-2002 05:36 PM Anyone who gets close enough to see the scratched lens could be either blinded by your UltraStinger or hit with it
Of course, you could contact Streamlight and ask them to replace you scratched lens.
I am interested in how your UltraStinger compares to the MagCharger in terms out beam output and runtime. Have you gone head-to-head with a direct comparison?
I meant that when you buy cheap, you usually pay for it. Using a Polycarb lens is an example. Giving you only one battery is another example. Not using Hard Anodised finishes is another example.
My first impression of the UltraStinger was that it lacked refinement and quality. But it didn't impress me with brutish output or tough features. I visited the Streamlight stand with as open a mind as I could muster. I was hoping that I could go back to PK and demand he made a SureFire like the UltraStinger, but I walked away with a feeling of "Is that all Streamlight had to offer?"
But then I'm known for my love of Streamlights... They are better then many other brands includiong Maglite. The UltraStinger seems to be a popular model, but then people like McDonalds. I'm a BK fan myself and happy to pay for it. People say BK is expensive. I say it's good value, and you get what you pay for.
Al

Posts: 1503 | From: WGC, England | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged

Please be aware that we are straying off topic.

At this point, I must note that the LX hurt my hand when using it for about 10 minutes, and the Scorpion didn't give me a good impression to say the least when I tried it out. The ASP Triad switch hurt me too. I think that I must either be so used to SureFires that to use something different hurts, or that SureFire have to the balance right, and other pressure switches just aren't that user friendly. I think it's a bit of both.

The Scorpion's bulbs don't last long enough.
I use my flashlight, and spending on bulbs stings after having to spend on batteries.

There are many reasons why the E2e is considered far better then the Scorpion. For me, my G2 blew the Scorpion away (with fresh batteries in the Scorpion) Beam, build, and accessories.

Size15s
Administrator
Member # 24

The size difference between the LX and the E2 is significant.
The LX with it's huge Bezel is in the same size bracket as the SureFire M2, but lacks all the features that the M2 has. My view is that the M2 more than justifies it's size.
The E2 makes a perfect EDC flashlight with it's thin, light-weight, compact body, and it's PocketClip.
Unlike the M2, the LX lacks a Pocket/BeltClip. Therefore I find it very difficult to carry, I don't trust it carried in a bag in case it activates and melts it's pathetic lens (and damages whatever it's close to)
The huge size of the LX and it's complete lack of justifying features, as well as the dreadful pressure-click switch, and the difficulty it is to carry make it a toy rather then a tool.
My LX was $20 wasted that should have gone towards getting a G2Z.
Al

Posts: 1503 | From: WGC, England | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged

Some very nice things said about other lights. If I had time I would look for one a remember you posting about the LX where you really tore it up. Also as you stated above it is just fine to go off subject as long as you are aware of it. Also about the US well a lot of your beloved SF's are made with Lexon (I believe that melts and scratches) and those extra B90's they give you are just great nobody ever has a problem with those.

PS. You can delete this member if you wish my point has been made I will not be back as Flasher.

Peace Out AKA Flasher!!!

Flasher,

I must say I really don't get your point. True Size 15s is very fond of Surefire. It's obviously his favorite brand. I mean we all know this just as well as we all know that Darell and Saaby love Arc (no offense guys , just seemed like a good example).

But I have never heard of him using his moderator authority to push Surefire. I mean as far as I've heard no one has ever accused him of deleting anti-Surefire posts or of deleting posts that are say other brands are better than Surefire.

So I honestly don't see the problem that you have with him, he expresses his opinions just like everyone else on the board can. A lot of people on this board have brands they love and praise; and a lot of people have brands they hate and trash. Why should he be any different?

Why should a person that only like SF be the moderator for the General board? Would we put Saaby or Peter G in charge of the LED board?

There is no reason why a moderator cannot have opinions and favorites. In fact it may be best to have someone who is very open about his biases. This way you know where he stands.

So he loves Surefires, he does actually have positive things to say about a few other lights and even if he didn't so what?

I think it would only be a problem if he started deleting pro-Maglite or Streamlight posts or deleting anti-Surefire posts and I've never heard of that.

The only reason I would think it would be a bad idea to have PG moderate the LED board is that it might take away from his flashlight building time. But maybe that's just me.

Pat

Ok I have been standing in the background for a while. I thought this was just a misunderstanding and things would work themselves out, but now knowing someone has went out of his/her way to make an alias to do this changes the whole thing.

The thing that now concerns me is why "Flasher" has apparently made an alias to make these statements? Being online for quite some time I know that is a big no-no on boards, and is just not an honest thing to do. I have to say this really bugs me and makes me loose a lot of respect for "Flasher" and to the real person who is using this alias.

Saddened...

Originally posted by Flasher:
Why should a person that only like SF be the moderator for the General board? ....

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Flasher,
Moderators aren't salesmen. We don't moderate people's purchases, or try to sell lights, ideas and opinions. Wehave our preferences, but that's not really relevant to the role.

We are supposed to moderate topics in the way that moderators do on any other board, all over the world. The idea is to meet the rules of the board - these are principles that everyone knows about CPF:

No personal attacks, be polite when disagreeing.
No Racism.
Be cautious about "bad language".
And the other ordinary things ......

PLUS - Keep people on topic !! As you well know, that's not (often) a big deal on CPF. Topics drift and grow as conversations do, naturally. Not always predictably or linearly, but usually topics stay in the spirit of discovery.

A lot of topics serve a social purpose - we are a quite close community, they have to be that way.
Members are co-entrepreneuring, working together, there are real-life friendships, cyberfriendships, all kinds of relationships. Perhaps if CPF ever becomes huge, we'll have to stay on topic more, but, at the moment, meandering is the way things often are. Mostly it works OK, but there are some gems lost in various topics with a totally different title to the important content.

It is sad and silly that you didn't feel that you could make your complaint "in person", so to speak. What were you afraid of ? I mean, seriously, did you really think that you couldn't make a point "safely", or that you'd be ignored or sidelined or "something" ? I don't think that the question of being banned could have arisen in your mind. When did you ever see that happen ?

When have you ever seen "dissent cruelly crushed" ?

Ok, in another topic, the Boss, DavidW said that two people had been banned. With 2202 members, and 1,000's of topics, billions of posts (seems like billions, anyway) only two people have been banned over 2 years.
I do know that both of those were temporary suspensions only. One member chose to walk out, another member returned to a warm welcome.

Jahn

Well, what can I say? I have an obvious bias toward Arc products, and yet I moderate the LED board. It could well be that some folks complain about this fact behind my back, but I haven't yet heard of anybody complaining about that (yeah, I DO hear the complaints about other stuff I do )

I suppose I should open that up for discussion, while we're here. If anybody has a problem with me (as moderator of the LED board) suggesting the Arc AAA to members who ask about outstanding single LED lights - I'd like to hear about it. Seriously.

I'm naive I guess but I have no idea who flasher is and I think it is only fair he/she should identify themself to their true CPF identity. You are certainly welcome to your opinions but why hide behind it?

Darell, I think you're totally biased in suggesting that the Arc AAA is the best single AAA LED keychain light available. I mean what about the competition? Oh wait, there is no competition in the single AAA LED light world. OK, I stand corrected.

Time to take my cuttin' horse and go slash me some tires!! Well, *virtual* ones anyway.

I too saw the reference to "Flasher" as being a long-time member now posing as a douchebag just to get a rise out of people. I even went so far as to do some searches for certain keywords & phrases, but found nothing to indicate who he really is. And I side with Brock on the issue of multiple accounts: that is a severe no-no, and anyone that does it *for these reasons* is probably just a big phoney. Why go through all the trouble to make and hide behind a fake account just to **** people off?!? That's immature, that's silly, and it just isn't very good BBS ettiquite.

Yawwwnnnnn! Not a very exciting debate but it looks like it's time for Cutter to throw in his opinion now also. I'm very new to the CPF...although I've been posting like a madman. And anyone who read the thread about "Welcome to Kmart...you're going to jail now", knows I love a good debate. It got shut down" cause I wouldn't "shut up". But this whole "create a phony alias" stuff just seems like a really bad soap opera.

I do agree that Flasher has a right to voice concerns. Preferably in private with those in charge....but also in public (within reasonable limits) and in the proper topic. However, I can't agree with creating an alter ego to do a ***** session and air dirty laundry.

I got pretty heated in the whole "Kmart" debate mentioned above and nobody tried to put a stop to it or really edit it until we had carried on for 5 pages and almost 200 posts (in fact, I think I created the single longest post in the history of this forum in that thread. ). And then, only because we were saying the same thing over and over and it wasn't really going anywhere did they decide that it should just be closed down. I didn't think that was censorship. It's just that we said everything that could be said and were talking in circles.

Sasha laid down the law and said the thread was over with and so....the thread was over with. I can respect that. They didn't just abruptly end it, but were very diplomatic about it. This is a forum that they created and spend time on to moderate so we can enjoy it. I live by their rules in here, not mine. When I make my own forum, then I can make the rules.

I'm not trying to suck up here, and believe me, if they had just deleted your entry Flasher, I'd be just a little pissed off myself. But, from what I've seen so far, that's not how these people operate. They saved your entry and offered to give it back to you to re-post in a more appropriate topic. As an independent, non-biased observer, that seems more than fair.

Now...as far as moderators not giving their preferences and opinions. I couldn't disagree more. I want to know what everyone thinks and what their preferences are. Moderators are people with experience and valuable opinions (just like everyone else in here is.). Does that mean I'm going to follow their recommendations like a sheep? No. I'm a "newbie" to this forum and I credit myself with a little more intelligence than that. But to say that they can't offer personal opinions I think would severely limit the great wealth of knowledge that is available in this forum. If a moderator thinks that all Arc AAA's stink to high Heaven (I doubt that will happen ), then I want to know about it. Then I'll take it to the next step and pester them until they tell me why they think that.

Flasher....please tell me what your favorite lights are (I really would like to know)....then, I'll weigh that against other opinions I see in here and finally make my own informed and educated decision.

Now...having said all that....I need to start feeling some love in here people....

Dan out

its no big deal. I come to cpf for fun and try not to let any bad posts bug me. if someone is biased towards surefires so what. I actually think they suck. for the money I dont think you get much and I would rather have a led light. I look at the moderators as just another person. DavidW is the one who pays the bills. I also think the post count is silly and the big deal people make about it on all message boards. im just here to read about flashlights and have fun. a lot of people here get so obsessed with arc or surfire they must think it will melt evil demons or if they strap it to their car it will take them to mars. those type of posts make some interesting things to read. try to have fun in cpf and in life even if things aren't just how you want them.

Chris

Originally posted by mrchri5:
I also think the post count is silly and the big deal people make about it on all message boards.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like the way you think

(Just trying to have a little fun here)

Chit. Everyone said it better than I could. Al has an opinion. And he is allowed to air it on CPF as long as I let him. End of story on that subject.

Yes, Arc has it's own forum here. And Maglite can have their own forum here if they want. SF said "thanks but no thanks". Other arrangements have been made for them and will probably need a hack to satisfy their request. There will be 1 maybe 2 more manufacturers joining CPF. Any flashlight/light related manufacturer can request a forum. They just have to agree to have a factory rep moderate the forum.

Flasher, I laid the rules for making a complaint towards administrative staff. You ignored them and thumbed your nose at them. Now your credability is zilch. And quite possibly your identity has been discovered by the staff here. Right or wrong it will remain secret to us. But you really need to contact me through email or private message as your behavior is out of line.

Just so you guys don't think he's me. I have no beefs with cpf- not no more. I know it sounds stupid to post this sort of thing but with phrases such as "generally a previously banned member does this" and ,well, other stuff- a guy can get nervouse. I know how admin. witchhunts go and don't want any part of it! I realize I have a record and thus that increases the probablity to get investigated.

Personally I wish flasher would hushup or leave. I'm tired of him poping up every where and torching the admin. To me the admin. are dieties who are not to be argued with. Flasher is totally out of control and admit that you are under an alias is just plain stupid.

In short and to ssay what everyone on cpf probebly wants to say- SHUT UP WOULDYA?!!

[ This post is agressive I admit so I grant the Admin. the right to moderate it if they see fit.]

Agreed. Flasher, everyone has opinions, we are all intelligent enough to sipher thru this info, and appreciate every bit of it. I respect the opinions of the moderators, and everyone else for that matter. Do yourself a favor, participate in the rhetoric, a great board for info, or shut up.

Originally posted by lightlover:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Flasher:
Why should a person that only like SF be the moderator for the General board? ....

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Flasher,
Moderators aren't salesmen. We don't moderate people's purchases, or try to sell lights, ideas and opinions. Wehave our preferences, but that's not really relevant to the role.

Jahn</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">one moderator is a salesman (for surefire), moderates people's purchase (constrains members to buy/use sf), and is disrespectful to other flashlight manufacturers!

in his opinion, every flashlight manufacturer should build small alumunium lights with TYpe III HA, high output high pressure xenon bulbs, powered by 123 lithium cells. Every flashlight manufacturer has to measure the light output in lumens and not in candlepowers.

why is the "General Flashlight and Headlamp Discussion" not moderated by someone who has knowledge and experience with all types of flashlights and not only surefire ???

Originally posted by Aragorn:
[QB]Just so you guys don't think he's me. I have no beefs with cpf- not no more. I know it sounds stupid to post this sort of thing but with phrases such as "generally a previously banned member does this" and ,well, other stuff- a guy can get nervouse...[QB]

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For what it's worth- I wasn't thinking of you when I said that, this attack on Al is not your style.

I guess I'm a little surprised that the person now posting as Flasher admitted to the cowardly act of making a new alias.

In the past I have bad mouthed Surefire mainly about their QC on the exploding bulb issue at that time. I was never at any time warned, moved, deleted or a victim of attack. I know I PO'd said moderator as he would not responed to any of my questions or posts at that time. We have both moved on from that issue as I bought an E2e and have a much greater respect for SF and have seen actual recomends of other then SF lights from said moderator.
As an aside, at one time I was waffleing about getting a M3 with a turbohead on the side for $159 and he said I would be crazy not to get both. Well, the price soon after went through the roof. I shouda listened. Sigh!!!!

artar,
I really don't understand your point.

No moderator is a salesman. No moderator has ever forced anyone to buy a particular light.
[Now Rreviewers - that's different. (JOKE.) ] But, - everyone has their preferences. Naming no names, I know moderators who are Arc fanatics, and one is even very approving of Streamlights.
Naming one name - the mighty Brock is a LED-hearted fellow through and through.
You can't really complain about an openly expressed preference. I'm sure you yourself have favoured lights.

Al is evangelistic about SureFires. He doesn't think much of Mag-Lites. (The rest of what you said previously is a little exaggerated.) That represents a point of view which he genuinely holds. (Many others hold those opinions too.)
I don't recall him being inconsistent or manipulative.
To paraphrase you, he:
"has knowledge and experience with all types of flashlights and [prefers nonetheless] SureFire".
His opinion is his, just as your dissent is yours.

Most people agree that Lumens are more appropriate than Candlepower for light measurements - that argument of yours is way off.

You are free to think what you want - You don't have to agree with or even believe any other member - You don't have to like any other member.

Just be polite and reasoned - treat others as you would like to be treated.

If you have a favourite light, then recommend it. If you hate a light, then say so.
What you've written is clearly just an attack on another member's personality.

I personally tend to agree that SF lights are better than most - I appreciate the integrity and passion with which the company designs and engineers it's lights. I really do believe that overall, SF lights are the best there are.

It seems like you've been thinking over and over about "something like that above months ago".
Please try to make your argument at the time, and specific to an issue.
That way, it's easier to deal with. A sweeping generalisation some months later is no good to anyone.

I'm surprised at your reaction.

Jahn