I was gased in a club tonight but wasn't hurt.

I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Hi Guys,

I was out at a local club: Jumpin' Jaks in Stevenage, Hertfordshire (~30 miles North of London) tonight. Having a really good time. About 01:30, I have a burning sensation at the back of my throat. I look around and people are looking distressed and confused and making their way off the dance floor. I see the girl I'm with is coughing so I grab her and stride off to the fire exit - people are already leaving. No alarms, no house lights (music still playing although singer and keyboards had stopped) Dancing lighting still active. Bar Staff have no idea what's going on. Everybody calmly leaves (no running, no panic)
At first I thought it was a fault in the aircon. Then I realise it must be a stink bomb and people are suggesting CS bomb or pepper spray - enough to fill a club and empty it of people ~300-500 (guess) in about 2-3 minutes.
Police are never far away at closing time ~2am and within about 5 minutes there are 4 Ambulances and every police car in the area and a fire engine. Some people were throwing up in the street. I guess about 1 in 20 was what I consider to be physically ill. People are massing at MuckyD's for water and KFC re-opened after about 15 minutes.

I myself was fine. My eyes were not burning or itching. I was not coughing or sneezing - I guess I didn't panic or breathe deep.
People were confused, a bit shocked and generally pissed off, but the atmosphere on this cold crisp dry Autumn night was quiet and still with generally people standing around breathing.

Without experience, I have no idea whether it was CS or pepper. I guess it was pepper based on the itchy throats and sneezing, and the general lack of streaming eyes. Obviously some got a higher dose, but generally I would say we all got a low dose.

Apart from spoiling my very good evening, I am at a loss to justify whysomeone would release such a gas into a crowded club just before closing. Perhaps there is no explanation.

Your comments on whether it was more likely to be pepper or CS (or perhaps something else?) would be helpful.
I'm sure it will make the local papers, perhaps local TV news but without numbers of deaths, I doubt it'll make London news.

I'm fine - tired, actually my date and I ended on a very good note so over all, I had a very good night.

Laters!

Al

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Wow, glad you are ok.

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Glad to hear you didn't get REALLY dosed with that stuff. During the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999 and 2000, that crap was flying everywhere. Enough of it even got sucked inside my apartment to kill a fishtank full of tropical fish.
Smells like sewer or burning poop. :/

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

I was in Arizona and bought some OC Pepper spray from one of the local stores, and being the curious sort, wanted to see what it was like. I decided to test it out in my hotel room- Curious but no fool, I cautiously squirted a tiny bit into a plastic ice bucket, and wafted some towards me, chemlab like, and then proceeded to hack and cough uncontrollably. My girlfriend laughed uproariously from across the room at my folly- until it wafted over her way, and she starts coughing away- We both had to vacate the room for some fresh air..
Sure would hate to get a faceful of that stuff-

Doesn't sound like the stuff in the club was pepper spray, or everyone would have been hacking away. I don't think it has the effect of causing nausea either. Even though it's pepper based, which you normally might associate with sneezing, coughing is the result of exposure. Based on the symptoms you mentioned, it probably was something else-

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

As I remember my Army Gas Chamber training, CS gets to your eyes..can't keep them open! Sounds like you got pepper spray.

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Don't forget, there's CS or CN gas, and Pepper Spray.

CN is different from CS.

Gotta dig up Massaad Ayoob's book here somewhere

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

CS is the wimpy version.
CN is mil-only.

Most police-type CS grenades use a blue dye. (idea is to disperse crowds, not fill hospitals)

Military versions are designed to be rude, and sudden.

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

There was no colour in the air.
I guess "people" assume it was CS.
Once one person says it was CS, everybody else does...

There was not smell as far as I could tell.

Thanks

Al

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Glad you and your date are all right,

had the same experience in the Paris subway at new years evening/night. But nobody coulde leave, I'am still surprised nobody got hurt badly.

Something like this is no joke. In a panic situation people could dy. For COPD/Asthmatic people this could be very dangerous also... .

But I hope your date agreed: you are a hero saving her

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Pepper Spray uses oleoresin capsicum in dilution. Think essence of HOT peppers, and you have the idea. OC is the ingredient in hot peppers that makes them hot. Get into lungs and you get breathing distress.

The idea behind pepper spray is to incapacitate druggies and wackos that aren't phased by tear gas.

using this in a club or other enclosed gathering place can be considered an act of terrorism. There are many forms of terrorism, not just that which is lethal.

Glad you are okay.

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Back in the late '60s or early '70s I was in a club (they called them "Discotheques" back then)in Salzburg, Austria with two girls I knew who were studying at the Mozartaeum. I had a can of something called "Repel" in my front right pocket. It was one of the earliest versions of pepper spray available to the public, and I remember reading "oleoresin Capsicum" on the label. The can was the size and shape of a small can of WD-40, but with a slightly larger diameter. There was no saftey of any kind: you just had to depress the head for it to work, just like that WD-40 can without the long nozzle.

The two girls (Evie and June)started dancing while I sat at one of the tables. Eventually they broke away from their partners and joined me at the table. We all started kidding around, hugging and laughing and ...whatever. All of a sudden I felt my eyes burning and the inside of my nose and throat stinging and felt a kind of choking sensation. (I have asthma and severe allergies); then the others started feeling it too. Somehow we had inadvertantly set off the pepper spray. I whipped the can out of my pocket and it fell to the floor, apparently damaging the nozzle so that it wasn't really "Off". I would estimate it took all of a minute or two to empty that disco, and I have to admit that the three of us ran and didn't return to face whatever consequences awaited us.

None of us was suffering severe effects, so after going back to one of the girls' apartments and showering and changing clothes, I took them out to an excellent restaurant where we had some good laughs over the incident. BTW, in those days the exchange rate was four marks to the doller. We lived like royalty for about a week before I had to return to the States.

Brightnorm

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

From the training I had:

OC is quicker and safer than CS, but doesn't last as long. Many LEO sprays (some civilian) use a mix of OC and CS. The OC affects instantly, but only has a great effect for about 20 seconds; the CS takes a few seconds to take effect, but lasts much longer. CS can cause permanent damage from burns if directly applied and not treated. There have been no reported fatalities from OC. Every incident that was attributed to OC was in fact caused by something else. Chemical sprays aren't usually effective on people with a serious emotional bend on causing damage (so they aren't recommended for protection from domestic abuse - usually doesn't work in these cases), and are often not effective on drugged out people, or those that are used to the effects. It's mostly a shock/panic thing.

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Originally posted by Albany Tom:
....OC is quicker and safer than CS, but doesn't last as long. Many LEO sprays (some civilian) use a mix of OC and CS. The OC affects instantly, but only has a great effect for about 20 seconds.....

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tom,

I wasn't aware it was that short acting, and I know that some OC sprays are more effective than others. Percentage figures are very misleading and SHU rating (Scofield Heat Units)is considered more revealing, though that system has its problems too.

When you speak of your training, were/are you LEO or military? Are you familiar with Fox 5,000,000 SHU OC spray? If you are knowlegeable what form of the substance do you consider most effective-spray, stream, foam? etc.

Have you used this weapon in real life?

I'm very curious about the efefctivness of top quality OC spray on very angry or deranged persons, since the gun laws in my city are some of the toughest in the nation. In fact there is downright hatred of guns mong many people here.
It was my understanding that OC was more effective against these disturbed and enraged individuals then tear gas, which is one reason for their increasing popularity in many police departments.

Brightnorm

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Training was as part of a week long firearms course, so "chemicals" as they were called, were discussed as part of the course, but not used. Course was a LE course adapted for civilians, the instructors were a former Michigan state police head instructor, and another police instructor.

They advised that chemicals were great, but had limitations, primarily that they were usually ineffective against someone who's emotional drive was really geared up, say a spouse trying to kill another spouse, or against someone who has had significant experience with the sprays.

Examples given were: When one family member attacks another, and is sprayed, they usually don't realize they've been sprayed until after the attack, then the symptoms take over. When untrained police officers are sprayed while holding their firearms in a ready position, half will drop their weapon, even though they know they're about to be sprayed.

They're supposed to work great on unemotional attacks - i.e. robberies, street thugs, etc. With people on drugs, the effect will naturally vary, but often you'll at least get a temporary loss of vision, which is a good thing. By "not long lasting" they mean as an effective defensive weapon, not to suggest that the person won't be having some difficulty after that.

The suggested spray was any name brand blend of OC and CS, if that is legal in the area. In NY State, civilians can only use OC, in less than a certain quantity container, and I believe less than 5%.

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

Air-tasers supposedly work well, and the bean-bag airguns are an option. You can always get a job that allows you to get a federal gun permit....

Re: I was gased in a club tonight but wasn\'t hurt.

It did make the local rag after all...

http://www.thecomet.net/archived/2002/wk40_2002/news/asp/gas.asp

Al