Unskilled and Unaware of it.

Unskilled and Unaware of it.

"When asked, most individuals will describe themselves as better-than-average in areas such as leadership, social skills, written expression, or just about any flavor of savvy where the individual has an interest. This tendency of the average person to believe he or she is better-than-average is known as the "above-average effect," and it flies in the face of logic… by definition, descriptive statistics says that it is impossible absurdly improbable for a majority of people to be above average. Clearly a large number of the self-described "above average" individuals are actually below average in those areas, and they are simply unaware of their incompetence.

It seems that the reason for this phenomenon is obvious: The more incompetent someone is in a particular area, the less qualified that person is to assess anyone's skill in that space, including their own. When one fails to recognize that he or she has performed poorly, the individual is left assuming that they have performed well. As a result, the incompetent will tend to grossly overestimate their skills and abilities. A few years ago, two men from the Department of Psychology at Cornell University made an effort to determine just how profoundly one misoverestimates one's own skills in relation to one's actual abilities.~

Also interestingly, the top performers tended to underestimate their own performance compared to their peers. The researchers found that those participants fell prey to the false-consensus effect, a phenomenon where one assumes that one's peers are performing at least as well as oneself when given no evidence to the contrary."

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=406

Usually the real world will eventually provide accurate feedback on what each person can and can't do well - it can't be avoided except by the very rich.

Some schools do a good job of preparing our students and some don't. The latter avoid giving the students negative feedback so as to protect their self esteem...:shrug:. Better if the great awakening happens on someone else's watch, I guess...

nerdengineer,

Unfortunately, our public schools are doing this exact thing: they are cossetting the students from reality in order to protect their "self-esteem".

There are whole generations of people coming up in the world now who think that the world owes them a living, that they don't have to prove anything, that they are inherently skilled and worthy of major success even though they can't objectively and demonstrably show any skill or aptitude.

I taught inner city 6th, 7th, and 8th graders in Syracuse NY, and it was very, very unsettling. My 8th graders could still not handle fractions--couldn't even understand what fractions actually WERE, what those numbers actually MEANT. I spent a lot of time going over very carefully and clearly what 1/4 or 1/10 or 3/4 or etc. meant, with pie graphs, and with money, and so on. But they just didn't care. They had absorbed so fully the sentiment that all of what they were doing was just jumping through so many hoops, and that it meant NOTHING, nada, zip, zero, and was just busy work, that they couldn't be bothered to actually turn their minds to real learning, even when it was handed to them on a silver platter.

And one of the boys got fed up with it pretty quickly and was like "Why I need to know this?" and I was like "Well, xxxx, what do you want to do when you grow up?" And he says "I'm gonna be a stock broker! You think I'm gonna need to measure money?" as if it was the most obvious thing in the world that fractions had nothing to do with money and certainly nothing to do with being a stock broker.

He really, honestly and truly thought that he was all set to be a stock broker, and that he didn't need to learn anything I was teaching in order to make that happen."

We're talking about a group of kids so lost, so behind, that they don't even KNOW they are behind.

And my experience is definitely not rare. I've heard it from others, too. And we're all going to reap the whirlwind on this one, folks. Because these kids are going to be PISSED and cynical and bitter and jaded beyond belief when they find out they aren't going to be rich and famous. And somehow they think it's all someone elses fault.

The stories I could tell . . .

Needless to say, I'm not a science teacher at an inner city school any more. One round was more than enough to burn me out. I can't and won't teach someone who not only doesn't want to learn, but doesn't even think I have anything to teach.

It's funny. Decades ago, a movie like "To sir, with love" would have shown one answer: just start a dialogue with them. An honest, open, clear dialogue about anything they are interested in. Teach with the Socratic method.

But it doesn't work with those who are fundamentally irrational at heart, and who hate you. Not that my students hated me more than any other teacher; they actually hated me LESS than the other teachers. They sensed that I really believed what I was saying, and also that I really believed that what I was teaching would help them--that I wanted to help them. But even so, they still looked upon me as a combination of jailer and harsh task master and disciplinarian all rolled into one.

Frankly, the best thing for some of those kids would be grunt labor in construction work or garbage collection. You don't want to be in school? You don't want to learn? You don't care about your grades? FINE! Go dig a ditch for 40 hours a week and see how that sits with you.

After high school, I attended the United States Air Force Academy. And I hated it. I stayed through basic training and into the school year, but quit before my first year was up. And my father, being a military man himself, disowned me. And I worked at a Radio Shack full time selling stuff until the next semester of college started at the University of Maine. And when college started, I worked 20 hours a week washing dishes in the dining commons, and 8 or 16 hours each weeked back at Radio Shack.

I loved it. I was happy to be where I was, with as much time to study as I needed (even counting work), with my own room, with no one telling me what to do or how to arrange my socks. I just loved college. I loved the classes, the friends all around me, all of it. And yet, I'd hear disgruntled college students saying things like "School sucks! I HATE this. I hate math. I hate physics. I'm going to drop out. Who needs a degree?" And I was just totally nonplussed. I couldn't believe it. It seemed to me that they just had NO CLUE what they were asking for, and were in for a rude awakening.

I think there are a great many people who are unskilled and unaware of it, and instead of having to face this, they will blame someone else. It's not going to be pretty.

This is similar to the Peter Principle - one flavor being that an individual will rise in an organization to a level where he is incompetent. As long as he is competent at a particular level, he is likely to rise to the next level, and will only stop rising when he reaches a level where he doesn't know what he is doing.

cheers

I basically agree with js here. Thanks to teaching methods which are overly concerned with not hurting a student's self-esteem we're eventually going to end up a third-world country. We're already halfway there as far as I'm concerned. I don't solely blame the educational establishment either. You have a media which glorifies celebrities who for the most part are horrible role models. You have a culture obsessed with acquiring material wealth for it's own sake. You have a general disinterest in learning anything new among most of the population. Well, the last thing is the fault of schools mostly since they're supposed to impart a love a learning in addition to actually teaching useful things. You have parents who shower their children with material things but take zero interest in their education or emotional well-being. They also program so much of their childrens' days with so-called enrichment activities that there's little time for the free association of play. You also have many of these same children growing up in places where there's little inherent mental stimulation. To top it all off you have a lawsuit happy legal system and a series of government handouts creating a culture of entitlement. Given all these, it's no surprise many people are so incompetent that they don't even realize how incompetent they really are. They just see no incentive for competence when many around them in effect get money for doing nothing of real value to society.

What's most frightening is that these changes have occurred not over a millenium or even a century but in the span of a few decades. When I was in grade school not much more than thirty years ago most public schools gave a child a solid education. There was also a can-do attitude which put a man on the moon and saw a bright future. Those going to school felt they were going to school to actively participate in this future. This is in sharp contrast to the skeptical, "what's in it for me" attitude prevalent nowadays. Even worse, this crappy attitude is contagious. I find a lot of the optimism of my youth dampened by the new "why bother" attitude. It seems you just can't get people to care about anything any more except their own comforts.

Can this be changed? Maybe, but like an alcoholic we'll first need to realize our vice, and then be willing to do something about it. Parents will need to hand the schools more responsibility. The schools will need to be able to take whatever disciplinary measures are needed, including mild corporal punishment, without fear of lawsuits or parental backlash. Parents will need to back up the schools even on days when they severe hurt the self-esteem of their "poor child". Teachers will have to learn to tow the fine law between killing a child's initiative with too much discipline versus not giving enough to encourage the child to learn more. We need to end frivolous lawsuits and put lawyers on hourly pay like everyone else. We need to stop glorifying celebrities and wealth. In fact, we need to stop glorifying anybody. We need to teach that we're all in it together. If everyone does their part society will get better for everyone. Ant society, not high society, should be the model for our own. If we do all this then maybe we have a shot at undoing some of the damage done in the last thirty years.

jtr-

I'd disagree about us becoming a third world country, and here is why:

There is a determined subgroup of people who will not allow their children or their friends children to take a cop out attitude towards education and advancement. That subgroup comes in two distinct flavors: First generation immigrants, like the Asians/Indians and some Eastern Europeans, who literally will their children to college because they recognize that education is how they will forge a new life, and old school people like myself and my friends who long ago recognized that life is simply easier, regardless of whether or not you really NEED to know some things, if you fill the box that says "college education".

I beat my head against a wall as a young man because I refused to acknowledge that I needed a college education to accomplish some of the things I wanted to do in life. I finally realized that although that education might not be tecnically required for what I wanted to do, no one was going to allow me in the door until I actually had that education!

All of my children, and to a great extent, all of my close associates and friends children, have received that advice and guidance. My friends and associates know that if they hear my kids saying things like those mentioned by js above, they should RAPIDLY and REPEATEDLY reinforce that a college education is a requirement in todays world. I honestly can not think of a single one of those kids who is NOT planning on a degree.

But it takes ACTIVE, INVOLVED parents to make that happen. How many parents stay actively involved? NOT TO MANY! My experience over the last 15 years with my own children shows that only about 10-15% of parents actively involve themselves in their kids lives.

The touchy, feely part of destroying kids initiative and personality is BS, pure and simple. Let's see who came out of those systems, people like:

Carnegie
Rockefeller
Bell
Ford
The Wright Brothers
and thousands and thousands more who made America great. Doesn't look like the system was broke to me!

Examples:

Grade School parent teacher meeting, 35 kids in a joint 3-4th grade class, 4 sets of parents showed up! We already knew all of them!

Junior High open house, 700 kids, 100 sets of parents showed up.

High School open house, nearly 2000 kids, less than 200 sets of parents showed up.

I live in white bread, semi-rural America, I KNOW inner cities are worse, and private schools are probably a little better.

BUT...unless parents are involved, kids will get worse educations, not better!

We are fighting at our high school to offer MORE classes, but our teachers want to continue a 4 period day, each of 90 minutes, instead of 6 60 minute periods. The teachers teach 3 classes for a total of 4.5 hours, have a 1.5 hour planning period, and get 3 months off every year. Think that through!

Lest anyone think I am anti-teacher, not hardly. I have 2 siblings who are college professors, and 2 in laws who teach high school.

But teaching should be about accountability, and from what I can tell, there is none at all in teaching!

Don't just blame the kids, because the system is broke, and the only people that can force change are the parents. The question is will they?

The bell curve is pretty flat in the middle...and although the difference between somewhat below average, average and somewhat above average might not be that large, that range still covers a lot of people...so it's not surprising that anyone in that group, possibly even a majority of the people, especially by their own standards, might say they are above average.

And that's the real issue...I might believe that my leadership metric is better than yours and so that by (my) definition I'm a better leader than you...while of course you might believe the same. Then we could talk about the accuracy of the absolute metrics that would have to be used to actually decide who is "really" above and below average in leadership etc.

I think it's perfectly normal to believe that we are above average when measured by our own standards....

The bottom is dragging down the top and the bottom is getting bigger all the time. I'm an idiot when it comes to math. Can't do fractions, never really passed a math course in my life. Learned my other subjects but forgot most of what I learned after the testing was over. I love to read and that keeps me from feeling like a complete idiot. But I work hard and pay my bills and try not to get dragged down by the bottom.

I don't overestimate my abilities, I'm thankful for what little I have

im good at turning on lights

js, that was an awsome post!! :bow: It's Friday night, and I am 5.99 sheets-to-the-wind! (Coping mechanism.) I have the next 10 consecutive day's off! arty,: (but no party to go to!) Someday, I may dump what "made" me where I am today.

Larry

Important and interesting posts, thanks all.
You know what's weird- I can't get my kids' noses out of the books!
Trying to get them to play cricket (ball game) is like pulling teeth!
I hope their good academia takes them far in life, but clearly a little aerobic fitness and some macrocoordination (NOT XBox) would be good for them.
The hardest thing to find in life is BALANCE, I think.
I send them to a local private school and there is a lovely culture of excellence in everything, but my kids seem blind to the bits that involve moving!!! I think the culture stems from the population of (mostly) professional types who have worked their bums off to get where they are, so they see the importance of hard work in all its forms- I am very thankful for that. But isn't the world a heterogenous place- what a mix of attitudes and abilities and ability to give a damn we see....

JS, you have put into eloquent words, what I have believed for many years. I could not agree with you more! I'm not in education but I do hire quite a few people each year into very secure, good paying jobs. The attitude of those coming in now versus 20- 25 years ago is disgusting to me. "How much money am I going to get and how little can I do to get it". "How can I possibly have a satisfactory evaluation? I'm at least above satisfactory if not exemplary". Heaven forbid any tarnishing of their self-esteem! "I get 12 sick days a year and I'm going to use them. Why do I need to save them? If I get seriously ill, I'll worry about it then". When officially disciplined, they come up with every possible excuse and usually end up saying "well Johnny did it too". Instead of sucking it up and taking the medicine, they draw others into it and try to justify their screw-up. Everyone wants instant gratification and they are unwilling or at least very unhappy about having to work to get ahead. Am I ever so glad I'm bailing out in 18 months!

bwaites said:

jtr-
I'd disagree about us becoming a third world country, and here is why:
There is a determined subgroup of people who will not allow their children or their friends children to take a cop out attitude towards education and advancement. That subgroup comes in two distinct flavors: First generation immigrants, like the Asians/Indians and some Eastern Europeans, who literally will their children to college because they recognize that education is how they will forge a new life, and old school people like myself and my friends who long ago recognized that life is simply easier, regardless of whether or not you really NEED to know some things, if you fill the box that says "college education".

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The thing is that this subgroup is probably under 10% of the population. With standards for the other 90% falling all the time I don't see how 10% can keep the entire population from falling into the abyss. Even worse, as I said earlier the bad attitude of the 90% rubs off on the remaining 10%. It's hard to see a bright future with today's "why bother" attitude and illogical thinking.

Another factor here is that the children of many of the subgroup you mentioned, and especially their grandchildren, will be born into an affluent lifestyle thanks to the hard work of those who came before. Many may receive substantial enough inheritances that they don't even need to enter the working world. In short, they'll likely expect and be able to live off the previous generation's wealth. Since they won't be in the working world at all, any positive influence they may have on the other 90% will be far less.

Sad to say, I see countries like China burying us quite soon although as they get more affluent I'm sure they will encounter the same problems we have. And if you think about it, perhaps today's attitudes were inevitable given the prior economic success of the US. Many already have all the material things they'll need at a young age. There just isn't anything to strive for, at least materially, for these children. Many will be able to live on inheritances. They have little else to drive them since a thirst for knowledge was never instilled in them. Perhaps that's the real problem here. As a society we need to educate young minds to want to learn, and then actively engage in all sorts of research. Educating to work in business where acquiring material wealth is the only goal is a dead end after a few generations. I often ask this question when people mention that becoming rich is their goal-"Well, when you're wealthy what will you do with the rest of your life?" Except for boiler plate, vague answers like "travel" I really never get a satisfactory answer to that. That's the real failing of our society-not instilling initiative in the younger generation.

Don't just blame the kids, because the system is broke, and the only people that can force change are the parents. The question is will they?

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The parents are solely to blame. The problem is many don't see the system as broke because they're as hopelessly ignorant as their children.

tvodrd,

THANKS!

jtr1962,

I disagree with you on the bit about us needing to stop glorifying anybody. Recognizing excellence goes hand in hand with recognizing excellence in people. And that includes actors and singers. I just LOVE Christina Aguilera! I love her voice, I love her music, and from what I have learned of her life and her person, I find her to be admirable.

And I don't see a darn thing wrong with this.

I also admired the heck out of my Graduate School Physcis thesis advisor. He is an amazing teacher, scientist, and person. I could tell a lot of wonderful stories about him and the classes I was so lucky as to have with him. He is a Feynmann to me!

And I also see nothing wrong with this. Why would there be? Dr. Kenneth Brownstein was a role model for me when I was in college. He set the bar for teaching excellence, and also simply for cultivating a mind full of wonder and curiosity, as well as one endowed with reason and intelligence and scientific methods. I revelled in glorifying him.

Anyway, enough said. And obviously, there's a lot of misplaced energy (of all kinds--money, attention, affection, etc.) given to celebrities, many of whom are very much LESS than deserving. No question. But that doesn't mean we should stop glorifying everyone and anyone.

Moving on,

College eductions.

Yes. I will second an appreciation for BALANCE on this! There ARE other options besides college--or at least there used to be. These days, college is displacing and assimilating a lot that used to be the province of some other institution.

In short, I'm talking about trade schools and apprenticeships. I actually dropped out of grad school to become a piano tuner-technician. I was feeling profoundly dissatisfied with so much book learning, with so much sitting and researching. I wanted to MAKE something; I wanted to learn a SKILL. And as I already played the piano, and had just purchased a used one, this idea came rather naturally. I started talking with the guy who tuned my piano about stuff and told him what I had done so far to my piano, and so on, and then one day he invites me, in so many words, to become his apprentice.

I spent about three months working for free, two or three days a week, but I wasn't really working for "free". I got a top notch foundation in those months. And then, when I was obviously competent enough not to need so much supervision, he started paying me an hourly wage and I started working full time. I worked in that shop for just about a year, and learned that trade inside and out--not that I didn't have more to learn, though, --just that I got a thorough training.

Honestly, it was one of the best things I ever did. There's nothing like hands on, practical learning! You learn FAST and WELL that way! Although, it is intense.

The point is that not everyone is going to be a business person, or a computer person, or a college professor. The world needs mechanics and piano tuners and electricians and plumbers and welders, and so on.

At this point, I suspect that even a mechanic or welder might be wise to get a college degree FIRST and then go to trade school, because an undergraduate degree is more and more what a high school diploma used to be. But there's no reason that trade schools and trade colleges can't teach all the subjects.

I don't have the answers here--it's a freaking HUGE subject, obviously--but I do know that I have every bit as much admiration for a skilled welder or piano tuner as I do for a good college professor. I'm not sure that my attitude is widespread, though. ???

Just some thoughts.

js said:

jtr1962,
I disagree with you on the bit about us needing to stop glorifying anybody. Recognizing excellence goes hand in hand with recognizing excellence in people. And that includes actors and singers. I just LOVE Christina Aguilera! I love her voice, I love her music, and from what I have learned of her life and her person, I find her to be admirable.

And I don't see a darn thing wrong with this.

I also admired the heck out of my Graduate School Physcis thesis advisor. He is an amazing teacher, scientist, and person. I could tell a lot of wonderful stories about him and the classes I was so lucky as to have with him. He is a Feynmann to me!

And I also see nothing wrong with this. Why would there be? Dr. Kenneth Brownstein was a role model for me when I was in college. He set the bar for teaching excellence, and also simply for cultivating a mind full of wonder and curiosity, as well as one endowed with reason and intelligence and scientific methods. I revelled in glorifying him.

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My rationale for not glorifying anybody is very simple-these people are simply making full use of whatever abilities they were born with. Everyone should be doing that. If some people happen to be born with greater ability in an area than others it's wonderful, but in my opinion they're lucky, not special. Society should expect them to use those abilities to better society as a whole just as it might expect someone who is only capable of sweeping to make full use of their talents. It may be no harder for Christina Aguilera to sing than it is for a mentally challenged person to learn to clean a toilet properly. Do we glorify the latter? Usually not. We shouldn't glorify the former, either. And interestingly, in a world of people like myself who pretty much lack any ability to enjoy music Christina Aguilera's talents might well be useless. Yes, for whatever reason the part of my brain having to do with music seems to not exist. And strangely it has nothing to do with being tone deaf. I can pick up subtle sounds in electronic devices which tell me exactly what is wrong sometimes. I just can't comprehend the purpose or joy of stringing sounds together for their own sake.

As I said earlier, ant society should be the ideal we strive for. We should all just do the functions we're best suited to, and to the best of our ability, without being told (yes, leaders are not necessarily needed in such a society). This doesn't imply that we don't do other things, or improve upon any abilities we have, when we're not perfroming our primary function. However, I just don't see much need for glorification. Some praise is good, even necessary, solely as feedback on whether or not a task is performed well. Anything beyond that, like celebrity status or excessive wealth, is superfluous. I never remember having idols. There were some people and even fictitious characters in whom I admired certain traits. But wholesale glorification is never something I was comfortable either giving or receiving. In fact, I remember in grade school especially purposely giving wrong answers on tests just so I wouldn't have the excessive praise of the teachers. I didn't like it. Then as now I thought that just doing my best shouldn't be praised. Rather, not doing my best should be chastised. I suppose I might have been more comfortable under true communism (but not the warped kinds which have actually existed in places like the USSR) than under capitalism. I just find the pursuit of more wealth than is needed to live comfortably (i.e. probably a few million dollars nowadays) weird.

I don't really expect that anyone will agree with my position or even understand it. It's probably way closer to some eastern ideals than western ones anyway.

There are whole generations of people coming up in the world now who think that the world owes them a living, that they don't have to prove anything, that they are inherently skilled and worthy of major success even though they can't objectively and demonstrably show any skill or aptitude.

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At 66 I heard my parents say that about my generation and admit their parents had said it about their generation. Now the grandchildren of my generation are saying it.
You can go back over 2000 years and find it being said and I'm sure a time machine would give us Ork the caveman saying that since the wheel was invented things have gone to pot.
Look what sliced bread did for us.

I'm with Jim on this in a lot of ways.

I am educated and well read, (My wife counted one time a few years ago, and I read about 60 magazines a month, and generally finish one-two historical or biographical novels a month, along with the gratuitous novels by writers like Clancy, Morrell, WEB Griffin, etc.)

And yet, I OFTEN find myself wishing that I could just leave the world of medicine behind and go build cabinets or shoes (one of my patients is an amazing cobbler!), or something else with my hands.

Craftsmanship of the "Old World" or "Yankee" tradition amazes me. My father in law, an EE who has made a small fortune (he would never admit it though) is an amazing woodworker in his spare time, but could never step away from his huge income to actually JUST do the craftsmanship thing.

I could, and will, if I ever get to the point that he is at.

But it isn't ALL about a college education.

Some of it is about not accepting less than you are capable of. I cringe when I hear "That's close enough for government work" or "that's good enough for what we are getting paid". There is, of course, a point where you reach dimishing returns for the effort expended, but that point is NOT reached by about 90% of the population from what I can see!

As far as education, though, education takes many faces. My mechanic is educated, as far as I am concerned, as is the group of guys installing my cabinets. (I'm wondering about the college educated cabinet designer, though, who has made at least 3 MAJOR measurement errors that I have found so far!)

We need people who are educated enough to understand that what they are doing IS important, regardless of what it is.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we have lost that most important of truisms, "If it is worth doing, it is worth doing right!" or as my southern born father would say, "If you haven't got time to do it right the first time, how are you ever going to find the time to fix it next time?"

One crucial factor in the large scale production of the "unskilled, and unaware of it", is the forced existence of a public school system. Unfortunately, most "private" schools are no better, as they are ruled, de facto, by gov't. They either conform to state and federal rules, or they don't get the dough.

As long as any form of government controls the schools, all the big problems will not be going away, ever, no matter what is tried in any attempt to fix things (buzz word: "reform"). They will, in fact, get worse and worse. This is not pessimism on my part. The public school system, by it's nature and design, is a mediocrity machine that will continue to degrade. The entire system needs to be scrapped, in order to let the free market offer the solution. Some may say that's an impractical idea. I say it's the only practical idea.

Jtr - I've enjoyed a number of your posts in the past, but this last one I did not enjoy at all. With all due respect, the two main thoughts in my mind as I was reading were, "do you have any idea what an injustice you do to yourself with some of those beliefs(?)", and, "geez, I hope he doesn't offer that stuff to others as guidance too often". I do understand your rationale, but highly disagree with it. Without the benefit of being able to fully express tone of voice in a forum post, I say these things out of concern, not facetiousness. There's a LOT I'm about to not say here because it would take me way too long. So, just a few points.

Why would one place importance on punishment for bad, but not reward for good? Why would one say to someone else, upon viewing their acheivements, "big deal, that's what you should be doing anyway"? I can hardly think of a better way to kill enthusiasm and spirit. People are most definitely not ants in a colony. Healthy, rational glorification and praise is awesome! It's good for both the glorificator, and the glorificatee (lol). It serves psychological purposes. It's motivating. It's pleasureable! And these good, positive feelings are some of the things that make life colorful and worth living. It'd be a very gray, dull, lifeless world otherwise.

Earned reward is not only good in the empirical sense. It goes much deeper than that. It's good for the soul.

Bimmerboy said:

Why would one place importance on punishment for bad, but not reward for good? Why would one say to someone else, upon viewing their acheivements, "big deal, that's what you should be doing anyway"? I can hardly think of a better way to kill enthusiasm and spirit. People are most definitely not ants in a colony. Healthy, rational glorification and praise is awesome! It's good for both the glorificator, and the glorificatee (lol). It serves psychological purposes. It's motivating. It's pleasureable! And these good, positive feelings are some of the things that make life colorful and worth living. It'd be a very gray, dull, lifeless world otherwise.

Earned reward is not only good in the empirical sense. It goes much deeper than that. It's good for the soul.

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In case you didn't catch it I did mention something about positive feedback: "Some praise is good, even necessary, solely as feedback on whether or not a task is performed well." This could take the form of a pat on the back, verbal praise, even a reasonable amount of cash in the case of a business relationship. What I'm against is the creation of idols along the lines mentioned by js. Nobody is deserving enough to be put on a pedestal like that. Inevitably, when someone is idolized like that they will end up disappointing you because they are only human, flaws and all. I guess what I'm basically trying to say is I'm against celebrity status or excessive wealth. Nobody needs more than maybe ten million dollars, and absolutely nobody needs to be idolized. I see both things as counter to helping performance. The person will end up thinking they're so wonderful and thus see no need to improve. Even worse, the public will mostly see the same old, tired celebrities and not be exposed to any new blood. I know I'm sick to death of seeing many of the same overpaid actors in movie after movie, for example. And I hate the celebrity worship of the general public with a passion. If we really have to idolize anyone, then maybe it should be the soldiers who lay their lives on the line to protect us, or the scientists, doctors, and engineers who have to work hard for decades to give us new advances. However, I ultimately see the need to have heroes at all as an indication of how little we've advanced in the last few millenia. I also see it as dangerous. I remember an episode on the original Star Trek where the disembodied consicousness of a long dead super race mentioned that they had advanced to the point where they thought of themselves as gods, and this proved their ultimate undoing.

As I said, I hardly expected anyone to agree with me. I hope I can provoke a bit of discussion, however. These are likely the final decades, maybe even years, of mankind. It might be nice if we could leave a permanent record somewhere of where we went wrong so the next intelligent species doesn't repeat our mistakes.

js said:

I just loved college. I loved the classes, the friends all around me, all of it. And yet, I'd hear disgruntled college students saying things like "School sucks! I HATE this. I hate math. I hate physics.

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LOL... I LOVE when one of my (guitar) students says that. It allows me to respond with "Well, I guess that means you also hate your computer, car, TV, and everything else... including your iPod." Usually, I receive the confused, yet inquisitive "Huh?", then hit 'em with a "science and math give us everything" answer. I think it's had a positive influence on some.

Oh, and I love to tell them this during lessons, and get the chance many times a week... "This is NOT school! You have to actually THINK here!



Edit: The attitude of "I hate this, and I hate that" is an implicit hatred of learning, and therefore the mind. You can't really blame the kids... they've been taught to feel that way. It's a public school thing, and they don't understand. It is really insidious. The parents' part of the blame comes in when they don't do what they can to break free of their own public style training, and teach their kids the same.

2nd edit: I'm not fully satisfied with how I expressed the 1st edit. I'll try to re-phrase it after Christmas. Still have wrapping to do, and need to get a little more holiday spirit going! I feel like crapola today.