Why can't they make LEDs larger, thus brighter?

Ilikeshinythings · Dec 23, 2006

LED's seem to have more overall potential than any other light source out there. Why is it not possible to make the diode larger? I bet you could make a 1 square inch LED pretty freaking bright.

If this is not possible, I apologize. It just seems cool.

lednut · Dec 23, 2006

Dang good question.I would like to know too.How large are the LEDs in traffic lights?

Concept · Dec 23, 2006

I know the replacment traffic lights here use a large array of LED's. They are all of the superbright 5mm variety.

270winchester · Dec 23, 2006

heat dispension and photon management. The optic for a large die would be very expensive, and the heat sinking has to be extremely beefy.

Newuser01 · Dec 23, 2006

Isn't CREE that is all the rage now have bigger surface area as oppose to lux and other verity?

I think that its a matter of time before others starts making them too and I for 1 cant wait!!

I can't afford a Cre now......Waiting for prices to come down.:scowl::scowl:

Just my 2 cents(what I have now!)

PS. I'm not implying that larger surface is better but it is one of the contributor.

xpitxbullx · Dec 23, 2006

If you look at the difference between the Luxeon-III and the Luxeon-V, that is essentially what they did. I think the voltage would exponentially rise making less suitable for flashlight applications, IMHO.

It would probably throw like crap without a massive reflector, also.

Jeff

mossyoak · Dec 23, 2006

i think the larger the light producting surface the harder it is to focus thats why most 3 watts throw better than 5 watts. so the larger the surface area the larger the reflector.

tron3 · Dec 23, 2006

Ilikeshinythings said:
LED's seem to have more overall potential than any other light source out there. Why is it not possible to make the diode larger? I bet you could make a 1 square inch LED pretty freaking bright.

If this is not possible, I apologize. It just seems cool.

Often wondered that myself. True, it seems heat would be a problem, but how is that any different from a light bulb?

If they do make them bigger, we might finally see true LED house bulbs which aren't built with an array of LED's.

CM · Dec 23, 2006

270winchester said:
heat dispension and photon management. The optic for a large die would be very expensive, and the heat sinking has to be extremely beefy.

BINGO!

Raybo · Dec 23, 2006

Ilikeshinythings said:
LED's seem to have more overall potential than any other light source out there. Why is it not possible to make the diode larger? I bet you could make a 1 square inch LED pretty freaking bright.

If this is not possible, I apologize. It just seems cool.

I think your question should be....Why can't they make them smaller with the same brightness?

This is where the benifit would be, more lumens per square mm.

Ray

Curious_character · Dec 23, 2006

tron3 said:
Often wondered that myself. True, it seems heat would be a problem, but how is that any different from a light bulb? . . .

Here's one way:

A light bulb is happy running at around 3000 degrees C. The maximum rated operating junction temperature of LEDs is typically around 125 degrees C, and maximum temperature during processing is about 300 degrees C for no more than a few seconds.

c_c

Jorge Banner · Dec 23, 2006

Current LEDs seem to be all two dimensional, don't they, I mean, flat.

I have this idea that somewhere there must be someone dreaming up a three dimensional LED that will be matched by a proper reflector and this might represent a jump forward. Unless, of course, there is some reason that my ignorance can't fathom, for this not to be possible.

lumenal · Dec 23, 2006

Aren't those new "cooler" - ice blue looking headlights on late model high end automobiles LED of some sort? Or are they some super type of Xenon?

EngrPaul · Dec 23, 2006

Manufacturing costs go up with size. Also, you have to have a market for them.

Just because you can put one huge LED in a traffic light, doesn't mean it's the best way to go.

Don't forget flashlights aren't driving the market, other consumer devices that use LED's for backlighting are. And these devices keep getting smaller...

SuperNinja · Dec 23, 2006

lumenal said:
Aren't those new "cooler" - ice blue looking headlights on late model high end automobiles LED of some sort? Or are they some super type of Xenon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_discharge_lamp

jtr1962 · Dec 23, 2006

Yield goes down dramatically with size. This is one reason microprocessors with millions of transistors on a large die cost $100 or more while commodity ICs with a few dozen transistors cost pennies. The microprocessor might have a yield of well under 10% while the commodity IC is above 99%. Factor in fewer dies per wafer and the cost per unit goes up even more. Right now we can cost effectively make power LED dies rated anywhere from 350 mA up to around 2 amps. In all honesty that is probably good enough. A 2 amp die means a 7 or 8 watt LED. At an eventual 200 lm/W such an LED can effectively replace a 100 watt incandescent. For more light it's easy enough to just use more emitters. If you think about this it's the same way with conventional light sources. A store might have 1000 32W fluorescent tubes instead of a single 32000 watt HID bulb. If you get much past a few thousand lumens there's just not much of a market need for a single emitter.

Curious_character · Dec 24, 2006

RAM manufacturers deal with the yield problem by including extra RAM on the chip which is permanently connected in place of defective areas during the test process. Something like that could likely be done with large LED arrays.

c_c

frasera · Dec 24, 2006

lumenal said:
Aren't those new "cooler" - ice blue looking headlights on late model high end automobiles LED of some sort? Or are they some super type of Xenon?

well the other guy already linked to the HID. expensive cars have real HID, put out a good spectrum and do make things easier to see. cheap wanna be poser cars with bluish lightbulbs are just regular bulbs with blue tint. really lame since it lowers output and filters out the parts of light our eyes are most sensitive to from what i remember. vanity.

kozmik · Dec 24, 2006

frasera said:
well the other guy already linked to the HID. expensive cars have real HID, put out a good spectrum and do make things easier to see. cheap wanna be poser cars with bluish lightbulbs are just regular bulbs with blue tint. really lame since it lowers output and filters out the parts of light our eyes are most sensitive to from what i remember. vanity.

Exactly. Real HID lamps are white and they're autoleveling so they don't blind people so much.

The worst offenders of the blue lights are extremly bright and glaringly blue. They're not HID, they're cheesy "tuner" parts with a blue filter and the driver is almost always a teenager with below average IQ and acne. :xyxgun:

The worst blue lights are a serious hazard for oncoming traffic and should be banned imo.

TigerhawkT3 · Dec 24, 2006

Just search for Edipower. If you thought LuxVs were bad, I would love to be a fly on your wall when you see these monstrosities.

Why can't they make LEDs larger, thus brighter?

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