How far does Cree's really throw?

FlashKat · Jan 3, 2007

Everybody keeps talking about how far Cree's throw, but they never say how far they really throw. I have seen the beamshots at 3 ft., 25 ft., want to see beamshots at 100 ft. or more. At least describe the lighting at far distances.

Erasmus · Jan 3, 2007

It all depends on which reflector/optic you use.

AlexGT · Jan 3, 2007

Ask and you shall recieve! Does 736ft of throw sound about right?

From Newbie's post over here
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=139931&page=1&pp=100

FlashKat · Jan 3, 2007

Okay Wiseguy :lolsign: that was a good answer.

I am talking about lights like Fenix, Lumapower, etc. with a stock reflector.

AlexGT said:
Ask and you shall recieve! Does 736ft of throw sound about right?

From Newbie's post over here
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=139931&page=1&pp=100

CM · Jan 3, 2007

How about this comparison. Using a KL6 as a host to a P2 Cree (note that P4's are now widely available) in comparison to a stock Surefire U2 on high.

Distance is 20 yards:

Stock U2 on high:

Cree in modified KL6

I can light things up from a distance of 75+ yards in areas void of light pollution.

FlashKat · Jan 3, 2007

CM,

Now that is what I am talking about posting a picture and stating how far the distance is on a far throw shot compared to pictures shown at 3 ft. to 25 ft. Most LED's can throw 25 ft. where CM is showing 20 yards.:goodjob:

Chronos · Jan 3, 2007

Per a test I ran last week during a night hike I flashed my (former) A19 XR-E at a high tension power tower from around 300' and was able to visibly illuminate it. Pretty good, eh?

My W-bin LuxV powerhouse was able to illuminate it too, but the beam was far dimmer; this was to be expected due to the optic used in this light.

ViReN · Jan 4, 2007

LumaPower DMini is i think the Cree light designed for pure throw...

65535 · Jan 4, 2007

Those crees are sooo blue.

Mike abcd · Jan 4, 2007

My P1D CE on high seems to throw about equal to my Streamlight Polypro 4AA Luxeon but has a much bigger hot spot and a LOT more total output. My light meter agrees with my eyes within a few per cent.

Mike

FlashKat · Jan 4, 2007

This is what I always see when people describe the throw....CM & Chronos understands what I want to see & read. I keep reading posts on how far a light throws, but hardly see distance noted.

ViReN said:
LumaPower DMini is i think the Cree light designed for pure throw...

benchmade_boy · Jan 4, 2007

i am wishing to know the same, but i want it with a small reflector.

Curious_character · Jan 4, 2007

FlashKat said:
This is what I always see when people describe the throw....CM & Chronos understands what I want to see & read. I keep reading posts on how far a light throws, but hardly see distance noted.

The light from a flashlight doesn't just go out some "throw" distance and stop. Except really close to the light, it follows the rule that the illuminance ("brightness") drops as the square of the distance -- at twice the distance, it's one fourth as bright. This rule goes on forever, except that practical and variable factors like absorption and scattering from water droplets, particulates, and so forth begin accelerating the dropoff at greater distances (or closer ones, if fog or smoke is thick).

So when you ask for a distance that a light will "throw", you have to tell the brightness level that you consider to define the limit of the "throw". Has the light reached the limit of the "throw" when it's as bright as moonlight? Starlight? A level you can read by when your eyes are dark-adapted? When they're not? Bright as daylight? Typical street lighting? The same light that produces one lux per square meter of illumination at 100 feet gives 4 lux per square meter at 50 feet and a quarter lux per square meter at 200 feet. Which of those distances is the "throw"? Or is it some other distance? Why?

On his Flashlight Reviews web site, Doug has adopted the criterion that the "throw" is the distance at which the light level has dropped to one lux per square meter. This is a really dim level, but enough to see by if your eyes are adapted, and it seems to me to be as reasonable a standard as any. But it's by no means universal or universally understood. So when you ask for a distance, you have to specify the light level. Only then can anyone give you a meaningful distance for a light's "throw".

c_c

FlashKat · Jan 4, 2007

Basically what I am looking for is exactly what CM & Chronos has provided...CM has shown a comparison shot between 2 different lights and the difference in brightness with the distance noted, and Chronos described how dim the other light was in comparison to the Cree light at 300 ft.

Curious_character said:
The light from a flashlight doesn't just go out some "throw" distance and stop. Except really close to the light, it follows the rule that the illuminance ("brightness") drops as the square of the distance -- at twice the distance, it's one fourth as bright. This rule goes on forever, except that practical and variable factors like absorption and scattering from water droplets, particulates, and so forth begin accelerating the dropoff at greater distances (or closer ones, if fog or smoke is thick).

So when you ask for a distance that a light will "throw", you have to tell the brightness level that you consider to define the limit of the "throw". Has the light reached the limit of the "throw" when it's as bright as moonlight? Starlight? A level you can read by when your eyes are dark-adapted? When they're not? Bright as daylight? Typical street lighting? The same light that produces one lux per square meter of illumination at 100 feet gives 4 lux per square meter at 50 feet and a quarter lux per square meter at 200 feet. Which of those distances is the "throw"? Or is it some other distance? Why?

On his Flashlight Reviews web site, Doug has adopted the criterion that the "throw" is the distance at which the light level has dropped to one lux per square meter. This is a really dim level, but enough to see by if your eyes are adapted, and it seems to me to be as reasonable a standard as any. But it's by no means universal or universally understood. So when you ask for a distance, you have to specify the light level. Only then can anyone give you a meaningful distance for a light's "throw".

c_c

Somy Nex · Jan 4, 2007

too bad i only have one cree light so far, the P1D CE, but all the shots in my corridor beamshots are about 30m, or just a little shy of 100ft. see sigline for link.

but your question is a little confusing and i'm not sure what you are asking. because the throw of a fixed light source (in this instance, i assume the new Cree XRE) is almost exclusively dependent on the reflector/lens/optic. so as the thread with Newbie's aspherical lens above showed, you can basically make a Cree into a laser-like beam if you want. it all depends on how you design your reflector/lens/optic. in general, larger = better in terms of throw.

clearly the current set of reflectors designed for luxeons or whatever, may not be optimal for the Crees. just as they were developed for the luxeon, new reflectors will have to be developed (or at the very least, tweaked) for the Crees.

so are you asking a) how far do Crees throw compared to X light source? or b) how far do current flashlights using Crees throw compared to one another? or c) something else? everything is a tradeoff.

regardless, with a fixed light source, putting out (one would assume) comparable light with comparable characteristics, they'd all "throw" or not throw the same. it's how the reflector is designed, that gives you a particular beam pattern, that is more important. for flood or throw or whatever.

CM · Jan 4, 2007

65535 said:
Those crees are sooo blue.

They are actually not. The color balance is thrown off because the U2 has a "greenish" tint and the U2 was used to set the camera balance. More important, the intensity of the hotspot really throws off the camera. If you take an average Lux V and an average Cree in the same reflector, the lux reading would triple in value. How's that for focus?

In reality the WF-P2 Cree has a warm tint. I now have a WD-P4 which is very white but haven't had time to replace the one in the KL6.

CM · Jan 4, 2007

ViReN said:
LumaPower DMini is i think the Cree light designed for pure throw...

Can't wait to get mine. It's a "turbohead" design so throw is in its vocabulary.

Chronos · Jan 4, 2007

My P4-WH Cree is very warm, "vanilla" as I believe PSM would describe it. It is a wonderful tint for me to use outdoors. My A19 was almost "silver," again borrowing the term from PSM. So not all Crees are blue...

As for total output in my example, please keep in mind that my (and my buddy's) eyes were adapted to low light, the night was dark, and the towers are a light grey against a dark sky. I do not believe I could have sent my buddy to the tower and have him read a book in those light sources; however, the A19 did illluminate the tower so it was clearly visible to our eyes, the LuxV less so.

FlashKat · Jan 4, 2007

Somy Nex, you takes great pics with description, but there is a lot of people that don't give out description and just say it really throws far. I would like to see noted throw distance on Cree flashlights that are not highly modified....example: Lumapower D-Mini, Fenix P1D-CE, Cree modded lights with stock reflectors and lenses. It makes me curious when people say this light really throws and don't specify how far. A standard AA Mini Mag throws really far compared to a cheap 4 LED light, but for me I think a throw of a 100 ft or more is considered good throw where you can see a clear visible pattern of light.

Somy Nex said:
too bad i only have one cree light so far, the P1D CE, but all the shots in my corridor beamshots are about 30m, or just a little shy of 100ft. see sigline for link.

but your question is a little confusing and i'm not sure what you are asking. because the throw of a fixed light source (in this instance, i assume the new Cree XRE) is almost exclusively dependent on the reflector/lens/optic. so as the thread with Newbie's aspherical lens above showed, you can basically make a Cree into a laser-like beam if you want. it all depends on how you design your reflector/lens/optic. in general, larger = better in terms of throw.

clearly the current set of reflectors designed for luxeons or whatever, may not be optimal for the Crees. just as they were developed for the luxeon, new reflectors will have to be developed (or at the very least, tweaked) for the Crees.

so are you asking a) how far do Crees throw compared to X light source? or b) how far do current flashlights using Crees throw compared to one another? or c) something else? everything is a tradeoff.

regardless, with a fixed light source, putting out (one would assume) comparable light with comparable characteristics, they'd all "throw" or not throw the same. it's how the reflector is designed, that gives you a particular beam pattern, that is more important. for flood or throw or whatever.

Somy Nex · Jan 4, 2007

FlashKat said:
Somy Nex, you takes great pics with description, but there is a lot of people that don't give out description and just say it really throws far. I would like to see noted throw distance on Cree flashlights that are not highly modified....example: Lumapower D-Mini, Fenix P1D-CE, Cree modded lights with stock reflectors and lenses. It makes me curious when people say this light really throws and don't specify how far. A standard AA Mini Mag throws really far compared to a cheap 4 LED light, but for me I think a throw of a 100 ft or more is considered good throw where you can see a clear visible pattern of light.

ah, that clears it up a bit. i guess there are so many variables that i didn't know which ones you were primarily interested in. i think i read that the Crees have a wider die base than the luxeons, so focusing it into a point to throw (like you can for incandescents and HIDs) is more difficult. this will of course reduce throw relative to total output. however, because the Cree is much brighter, even if there is difficulty in focusing the beam into a tight throwy angle, just putting out (enough) additional lumens is also bound to increase throw, even if the beam is less 'focused'.

it is probably more of the latter that we are seeing more of right now (though we also see the former). imagine that previously we had a LuxIII in the P1. Now, in the very slightly larger P1D CE, we have a Cree, that can compete in the ballpark of the LuxVs, and puts out maybe 1.5-1.75 times as much light, in a similar sized package using the same battery, etc. just that sheer increase in brightness is bound to increase the throw.

our lines here in east asia are still quite bad/slow due to the earthquake damage and i can't provide you with any link references right now, but look around for Newbie's & McGizmo's posts, and they give a lot of good info & observations on this stuff.

How far does Cree's really throw?

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