Got it -1993 Saab 9000 CS

I'm looking for information on the relative merits of the above; anyone happen to own one or know about them and has anything to say about it?

Wanted to see if there are any reviews or information on its history and strong/weak points, prior to buying one-

This one seems to be in good shape except the auto climate control is flakey; doesn't seem to blow any hot air and the digits on the temperature display are missing segments. With about 120K miles, would I expect it to continue motoring on for a while? I heard it uses a timing chain, which I would tend to doubt, with a 2.3L engine- does it?

Might be a question for Saaby!?

I take it is a non turbo,auto or 5sp?

Yes, non turbo, and automatic-
and from my poking about so far, it does have a timing chain, not a belt- big plus to me.

The autos were poor in the years before this one mainly due to the turbo.Have you seen any maintenance records?

Did somebody say my name?!?

Ok..well I happen to be looking right now at a 1992 Saab 9000 CD Griffin Editoin so we're about in the same boat. The one I am looking at has 170,000 miles.

I'll give you the summary here...for more info head over to

http://www.saab-900.com

They have some links.

Summary:
If it's been taken care of, go for it. Continue to take care of it and it'll last you forever. If it HASN'T been taken care of, don't even think of it. This isn't a Japanese car--it'll go forever but it will only do so with lots of TLC. Maintain it. Do you maintain your cars? Are you willing to. They're not all that expensive to maintain--they are very expensive to repair.

The transmission is the weakest weak point. If it has been replaced already go for it...if not walk away, it'll be going out any day now.

The engine mounts are another thing that goes. You'll need to check them from time to time.

They are prone to leaks but adding a product called "Bar's Leaks" seams to prevent most them.

Does it have the Traction Control? Aparently the TCS has lots of problems.

Is it the hatchback or the sedan? Unfortunatly the one we're looking at is the Sedan--if you can get over the looks of the hatchback (I LIKE the looks of the sedan, but I'm biassed) you'll have the most luxurious, sporty truck around

They're hardly lemon cars...just finicky about being maintained.

As far as I know, it's the original transmission.... the fluid did appear to be a light tan color rather than the nice bright pink usually associated with Dexron II. I drove it around locally, and it didn't seem to be doing anything too unusual with regards to the tranny, though.
I don't think it has TCS, but then, I don't know how to determine if it does or not.

I think there may be a slight coolant leak, just based on the low coolant level indication briefly coming on when cold, but it went away as it warmed up.

This is the hatchback, which I personally like, being much more useful to me. I've got a fleet of Merkur Scorpios, so I'm well acquainted with finicky cars.. Anything I CAN do myself, I will do; that's my motto when it comes to cars.

It seems to have been kept up decently, so it might be worth it, provided the major systems hold up. From what I've read so far, the little 2.3L four holds up for a long time- Never had a Saab before, but I do have a really nice silver Saab keychain!

Which temp display is missing segments? It's PROBABLY just burnt out bulbs...not toooo terribly expensive to repair.

The non turbo is a good strong engine ready to go forever. Transmission still can be a problem though.

**EDIT**
Typo fixed and I see you've responded already.

The major systems should hold up except maybe the tranny, how much they asking? If you buy a manual you can probably fix most the stuff yourslef. Most the common stuff to fix is even documented on the web.

The tranny could be a worry; the Scorpios also have trannys that go out like clockwork at the 110K mark. Looks like these two cars are close cousins in just about all respects-
Original asking price was $2500- second owner.
The temp display for the climate control setting- it looked like some electroluminescent digital readout; a few of the segments are out, so some of the numbers take a bit of decipering. Not too bad though. More of a concern is that the blower isn't putting out hot air- these automatic climate controls are a nifty idea, but give me a manual control any day..

As far as maintenance records, I haven't seen them, but I can ask-

Probably just a motor somewhere on the climate control...ooh ooh--or a failed heter core! See any evidence of a failed heter core? That's a common, but preventable problem.

could be a clogged heater core, but I hope not! Hope it may be something like a stuck blend door or something- Guess I'll find out shortly. At least it doesn't look like it's leaky, which would be much worse..

Hey Ryan, as the plot to this thread thickens, could we consider it a "Saab Story"

I couldn't resist. I just love puns

Run away....fast.

Automatic climate control problems tend to be expensive to repair, both in labor and in parts.

In New York, I'd say that heat is mandatory. This means that it was just as mandatory to the previous owner and that they probably tried to fix it and discovered the joy of doing so. Hence, the sale.

If you're lucky and its just a climate control panel and not a clogged heater core, blown ventilation control motor, or some kind of control ecu, you still have to purchase the unit and install it. Saab junkyards don't exactly give stuff like that away since they frequently fail and who knows if you have to spend 6 hours removing the dash to install it.

With any euro car (or really any car for that matter), take it to a good mechanic/garage who deals with those cars and have it checked over before purchasing. Ask what they think is the problem with the climate control. The one hour of labor you'll pay them is far worth the investment.

Personally, I work on Saabs quite often and I hate them. For what its worth, this car is based on the same platform as the Alfa 164, a car in which we specialize, and another car I hate.

YMMV

Mark

Originally posted by Minjin:
Run away....fast.

Automatic climate contr

(Snip)

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That, folks, is a Saab story. Minjin is a mechanic in case you didn't know.

True, if reliability is the #1 thing on your list when buying a car, this isn't the one for you...however they're (aparently, I honestly can't say I've driven one. Man, might as well change my name now) very fun to drive and (this one I CAN confirm) very very luxurious.

You have to decide what you want. I don't have personal experience with Saab ownership--yet--but I've found when researching stuff that if you're willing to fix things yourself on these (and it sounds like you are) than the parts that commonly fail USUALLY aern't tooooo terrible to replace.

I think I've said this but I want to say it yet again just to make sure we're clear on this point:

These are *not* Honda's. Far from them. The difference between these and (insert other unreliable car) is that:
A) Lots of not necessarily expensive TLC will keep them on the road forever
B) I've talked to lots of owners directly. Usually, especially on the internet, you'll only find horror stories of how unreliable/expensive a car is. The same is true of these, but it's usually more like "This and this and this have gone wrong and it was expensive to fix but I love the car so much that I can overlook it"

You'll be on my good side if you get it--you'll be on my good side if you don't get it. With this, moreso than with any other car I dare say, you have to ask yourself "Is this the car for me?"

Warning: Bad flashlight analogie ahead
It's kind of like a home built flashlight. It surely has it's faults, but it's also very unique.

I owned a Saab 900. I bought it from a a young man at my church that needed money for a missions trip -- and rather than sell it, this summer I gave it away. It had 170,000 miles on it when I disposed of it. Here are some common Saab problem, all of which are well documented and discussed on various fan websites (www.saabnet.com is the most prolific) and all of which afflicted that car at one time or another . . . .

Transmission will fail between 100 and 150K miles. This applies to manuals AND automatics. Mine was a 5 speed. The remedy? Put in a junkyard transmission and hope for the best, or spend $$$$$$ on a rebuilt.

Heater core leaks and heater control valves fail frequently. Crappy plastic parts combined with a bad design are to blame.

Drivability gremlins (idle control, surging, etc) will crop up frequently and you need to have a mechanic familiar with Saabs to diagnose and repair them. I hope you like him, because you'll get to know him well. I got a tin of cookies in the mail from him at Christmastime.

Plastic bits will disintegrate and fail with age (seat belt latches, dash board, trim, etc) and the headliner will let go.

Fuel economy is nothing to write home about for a compact car, ususally low to mid 20's.

On the plus side, the steel is thick and heavy, giving the car the feeling of tank-like security. The hatchback body style is practical, and the seats are firm and comfortable.

Overall -- fit and finsh, parts quality, and reliability are not anywhere near comparable to a Japanese or German (or even, frankly, an American) car. This is reflected in the extremely cheap resale value -- that's why you can buy a car that was over $30,000 new, for $2,500 (meanwhile, a same-year Lexus would probably be worth over $10K). In my opinion, people put up with this because of the image of driving a "unique" or "anti-establishment" car.

When it is said you need to "maintain" this car, that's an understatement . . . and a euphamism for "this car is an inherently poor quality and unreliable design, and something will practically always need attention from a Saab specialist". Be sure to set aside a recurring allotment in your budget.

These cars are rolling proof that Socialism didn't work. When you build a crappy product you deserve to lose out to the competition. In the '90's, GM had to come in and buy out the company . . . despite subsidies from the Swedish government, they were losing millions due to their well deserved poor reputation. Even today, Saab sales are a fraction of their competition.

I'll never own another of these shoddy Swedish tanks.

Just my $.02 worth.

Whoa! Lots of food for thought! Thanks for the info-
I really should pass on it, especially since I definitely don't need it, but I do kinda like it, reliability aside.
It seems to have so much in common with the Merkur Scorpio it's uncanny. Problematic transmissions and ATC, cavernous cargo capacity, great seats, etc. If the tranny can still hold up for a reasonable time, I think I can deal with the rest, though. Bad tranny for me would be the showstopper.
I'll check it out more closely and see if maybe I should run away; how fast and how far..!

If you want a scandanavian car and something different, I can't say enough good things about a Volvo. Pre-90s Volvos are one of THE easiest cars to work on and often have parts that are cheaper than american parts. Their reliability and safety is second to none. I really like them and I decided to buy one after working on them enough.

As for Saabs, I said I hate them and I do. BUT...they aren't that bad of a car. I don't like their ergonomics and it feels like you're driving a truck, but some people do. They are actually fairly durable and the hatch space is amazing. Its just that when something does need fixed, its normally not a 10 dollar part and 15 minutes of your time. This is very similar to Audi, another car that I hate to work on. The difference is that when Audis are running, I actually like them. If I could afford to drop my car off at a shop with a blank check and say fix it, I'd consider buying an Audi. However, I don't make enough money to do that.

If you're going to work on your own cars and don't like pulling your hair out, leave these off your list:

Audi
Jaguar
Saab

There are plenty of cars that have some things that are tough to fix on them, but the above three are consistently tough to fix.

Mark

This thread, I think, really captures the Big Picture on Saabs. They're just...one of the strangest cars on the road. I love them, but they are SO not for everyone! Depending on your personal experience and circumstances, you'll either love or hate the car as a "driving experience" and it will either run forever or get donated to the Salvation Army in a very large basket. This is a company whose core business was making airplanes until it decided making cars might be profitable, and who for years made two-stroke (gas-and-oil mix) cars that nonetheless somehow managed to pioneer countless technologies and win road rallies like crazy. And they STILL make airplanes, including jet fighters. If you fly commuter planes often, you've probably flown a Saab several times. Now that's MY kind of company.

I've seen solemn oaths that smallish full-size refrigerators have been fit into the backs of the old-generation 900, and I did know a guy who raced his go-kart--kart, tools, spares and all--out of one of these.

In all seriousness, if you're not a Saab person, you WILL regret owning one. Sadly, this is why Saab's new master GM is now turning them into a more mainstream company--they just couldn't survive the old way. But if you ARE a Saab person, you will never know the true tragedy of your Saablessness until you do own one. I wish I could be more helpful, but I think your best bet is to just try one if the right car comes along. Couldn't tell you if this one is the "right car" or not, though.

rusty

My left-brain tells me the senselessness of getting it, but my right-brain just wants it- just because- never the twain shall meet!
I'm somewhat used to quirky cars, so I have a high tolerance for problems most others won't put up with.. So far my right brain's got a bit of an edge- argh!

Welcome to my world...

He he...I just got back from test driving a 1996 9000CS. I think my right brain has shot my left brain.