Any shotgun lovers?

I have been wanting to buy this for a year now.


It is from Knoxx

It has a lot of WOW factor, but if you need that many shots from a 12 gage for home defense, you've got a real problem somwhere. :>) TX

I have also been thinking of sending my Moss to Scattergun Tec to have it cut down to a 12 or 14". They will help you do the paperwork for Class III ownership.

Why do I see Testosterone written ALL over that???

I seem to remember a shotgun reviewed in a gun mag a while ago that was built on a kalashnikov action (Saiga as the manufacturer?). It used a 10 rd box magazine, I belive. That seemed pretty boss.

That's a 10-round drum isn't it.? My M590A1 holds 9 already. Its real easy to just pop new rounds from the side saddle or my shell belt every now and then to keep her fed. Choate pistol grip butt stock with 28oz of lead shot in the butt = lots of fun and no pain! Ghost Ring sights makes it EASY to hit with.

Those drums just look a little bulky to me. Wouldn't mind trying one out, just wouldn't want to shell out the bucks before hand!

mikep.I knew that Saiga had a box mag but I did not know about a ten rounder.

mindcrime.My M590A1 only holds 5+1 rounds. It is a 18 1/2" LEO model.

I think the Knoxx is more for LEO/Military riot control. Think baton, rubber shot and others all the way up to buckshot. The drum attaches and detaches just like a box mag. I think they sell a box mag also. Other than riot control I can't find a need.

Now, a lever action 20g would be fun!

Firequest has it in the current catalog for $189.99 for the Mossberg 500/590.

Please do not allow this picture to be viewed in Kalifornia. It makes all of us jealous.

she's a looker alright.

i prefer autos though, cause i tend to shortstroke the pumps.

The 870 version is not removable like the 500 moss is The sidwinder is a cool system, but the drum is way to big. A big fat "A++" for funfactor!

I would worry about the reliability of the mod. You've just changed the essentially straight, one piece feeding tube and added a non-integral, complex part that was never part of the original design.

Most combat shotguns have a 7 or 8 shell capacity in their tubes. This mod is a huge expense and X factor for two extra rounds.

Yeah, it looks "bad," but I am looking for a weapon to be reliable and defend my life. Looks won't mean anything if you are dead, hence they are a secondary factor for me.

Quite honestly, only real alluring factor of a shotgun for self defense is that it is extremely cheap and simple firepower ($200-$400). Once you start going beyond those parameters, there are much better configrations out there.

For ~$800 you can have a 16" CAR-15 configuration that gives you 30 rounds of 5.56. With 55-62 gr soft points (lower house/drywall penetration than 9mm!), you have a much better tool with less limitations. Top that with with much less muzzle blast and recoil, you get a much faster, accurate, and better balanced self defense package.

IMHO, this mod is a fairly expensive and extremely niche oriented product.

I won't say that I LOVE shotguns, but I do like them.... especially for those days that the old eyes and hands don't function together quite the way they should.

But I absolutely HATE drum magazines on anything. Sure, they look intimidating, but are a PITA to carry, store compactly etc.... but then I've never been a "hi-cap" guy. It is Quality, not quantity that counts with me.

I think I would take ANY shotgun over a 5.56 rifle if I was planning on using it on anything bigger than a ground squirrel. I have heard stories about it taking at least a double-tap to take out a "threat", sometimes even three or four rounds. This is unconfirmed, but I did read it in
"guns an weapons for law enforcement" magazine. Just think, if the round won't penetrate drywall doors etc. what is it going to do on impact with
human flesh? Correct me if I am wrong here, but I don't think over-penetration is as big a concern as a one shot stop.

Originally posted by bwcaw:
I think I would take ANY shotgun over a 5.56 rifle if I was planning on using it on anything bigger than a ground squirrel. I have heard stories about it taking at least a double-tap to take out a "threat", sometimes even three or four rounds.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is your choice obviously, but the terminality of gun shots is dependant on many variables. 5.56 NATO does plenty well at killing ~200 lb targets. The NON SS109 wound channel is devastating as the slug usually tumbles, cavitates, and fragments once inside the body.

This is unconfirmed, but I did read it in
"guns an weapons for law enforcement" magazine. Just think, if the round won't penetrate drywall doors etc. what is it going to do on impact with
human flesh? Correct me if I am wrong here, but I don't think over-penetration is as big a concern as a one shot stop.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Over-penetration is always a concern. Over-penetration means that your bullet is not transferring all of its energy to the intended target. That means it is wasting stopping power. On top of the fact that killing innocents because of over-penetration is means you'll probably end up in jail.

Actually, it is LEOs that are switching away from the shotgun and towards M4s because of the very reasons I stated previously. Not only can the Stoner based configurations be used at close range like the shotgun, but can also be used with great lethality and accuracy at 300+ yards. 1200 ft/lbs of energy is certainly not wimpy! Its about 3 times your average 9mm/40/45 pistol round. It will vaporize your average ground squirrel.

The 55-62 grain Soft Point 5.56 will penetrate, just not as badly as other pistol and rifle cartridges. 5.56 Ball will go through walls like the Energizer Bunny. It is the Soft Point configuration that helps fragment the round should it hit hard objects.

The stories you might have heard about 5.56 needing multiple hits to bring threats down most likely stems from our troops' experiences in Somolia (ironically we were fighting Al-Qaeda way back then!). If you ever have the chance of actually reading Blackhawk Down, the major problem with 5.56 was the SS109 Ammo, which is a 62 grain bullet with a steel penetrator tip. It was made specifically to penetrate Kevlar at 600 yards.

As such, SS109 made nice little pin-holes though the soft, non-armored, lightly clothed Somali tissue. It goes pretty much straight through, therefore over-penetrates like a SOB, and transfers very little energy. Unless you happen to get lucky and hit something vital, there isn't much organ or tissue damage or blood loss.

Organ and tissue damage and blood loss is what makes a one-stop shot. For ~$200 and <25 yards, the 12ga Shotgun is a extremely affordable and useful tool.

And more to the topic point, the magazine modification adds significant cost without adding significant capacity. You don't get a 100% better shotgun even though this mod most likely doubles its overall price. And contrary, it may even add complexity issues to an extremely simple tool.

The magazine mod may invigorate the testosterone levels, but that is pretty much all its good for. All I was trying to ellict was the fact that once you spend >$400ish on a scattergun, there are alternative products out there that will give you "more bang for the buck."

And I assume as CPF members, that is all why we are here to begin with...

Originally posted by Gun Nut: All I was trying to ellict was the fact that once you spend >$400ish on a scattergun, there are alternative products out there that will give you "more bang for the buck."

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please tell me more on this line of thought. I have a tape switch flashlight mine.

personally, at ranges of less than 25 yards id take a 12 gauge over any rifle and especially a 5.56, even if the cost of each were the same.

yeah you can have 30 rounds w/ an AR but hopefully i wont need more than the 8 rounds of 00 buck in my pump. not only do i not expect to encounter a threat requiring 30 rounds, id rather not have to aim as carefully in a dark, tension filled environment.

a short shotgun is not much longer than a short AR but both are too long for navigating rooms (which i dont plan to do) and too heavy for investigating coons in the trash can.

this post is mainly to express a different (though not better or more correct) perspective than Gun Nut whose opinion i respect.

BTW, my +2 mag extension was bought at a pawn shop for $15 and most cost only $40. it is flush w/ my 19" barrel. it did not double the cost of the gun and is IMO a good value.

to me, there is no better "bang for the buck" than a shotgun and no reason to spend more than $400.

This is the 9 shot


This is the 6 shot

The pic is misleading. There is not much space between the barrel nut and the end of the barrel so I cannot put an extention on mine even one was made for the 590.

these discussions are why i come here.

you are absolutely right on the balance and handling advantages of an AR over a shotgun. however, the devastating power of a 12 gauge is enough of an incentive for me to overlook that shortcoming.

i agree that 30 rounds is better than 8. however, for HD 8 rounds should be plenty. also, a .223 cannot compare to 00 buckshot in one shot stops. while more ammo is better, it (should) only take one shot and there is no debate over which will be more effective at less than 25 yards.

as far as price, we might be talking about two different things. a 2 shot extension for a tube magazine is only $40 or so (which is not too much more than a 30 round AR mag). that revolving magazine contraption is a lot more expensive, bulky and might cause feeding problems as you noted. id rather have 6 shots and a side saddle myself. ill agree w/ Gun Nut and recommend buying a Defender or 590 over this rotary mag.

yes, i stand by my statement that "you dont have to aim as carefully." notice the as carefully part. your 4" spread sounds about right at room distances so ill just ask which is easier to hit something with: a 4 inch spread or a 22 caliber bullet? you still have to aim but have more room for error.