Protesting Mag-Lite

I just happened to read the following quote from another recent thread on the board and I felt a need to comment on this situation.

"I ordered over $30 worth of genuine *ag*ite replacement parts from this site."

You know, I'm probably going to offend about half of you out there with this post but, what the heck, you can't have everyone in the world like you at the same time, so who cares.

I just want to say that you guys really crack me up by protesting Mag-Lite by purposely misspelling their name with ** and such, but then you turn RIGHT around and spend a big wad of cash on their products which goes directly to helping fuel them and their army of lawyers. Do you guys really think that the people at Mag-Lite are going to care one whit that you are misspelling their name out of protest on CPF? I would be a bit surprised if they even know that Candlepower Forums even exist. They are such a huge corporation that they could probably care less what we think. If Mag-Lite is really worth protesting, as so many have claimed of late, you have to hit them in the ONLY place that they will feel it and that is in their bottom line.

I'll use this as an example to prove my point. I personally feel as strongly (if not much more strongly) against Microsoft as many of you do against Mag-Lite (for many of the same reasons) and I have to admit that I do purposely misspell their name as Micro$oft just as many of you misspell Mag-Lite as *ag-*ite. The big difference here lies in that I not only protest Microsoft in words only (which they could really care less about), but I also protest them by NOT BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS!!! When it comes right down to it, that is the ONLY thing that a huge corporation can understand is when their bottom line is affected. You can speak against them all day long till you are blue in the face but so long as you are still spending loads of $$ on their products and encouraging others to do so, they could really care less how you FEEL about them. Most large corporations are nothing but greed incarnate and so long as you fuel that greed with your hard earned $$, they could care less about what you think of them.

Now that I've got that out of my system, I would like to apologize if I've offended anyone by posting this, but the irony of this situation has been building up in me for quite some time with so many people misspelling Mag-Lite and bad-mouthing them while STILL PURCHASING THEIR PRODUCTS!!! Finally the philosopher in me just snapped and this posting was the result.

Nicely worded post! No one should be offended!

Unlike Microsoft, I think we are upset (not protesting, but upset or mad) at Maglight, for NOT coming out with upgrades and New products!

To follow your analogy, Let's say that Microsoft was still on MS-DOS 6.22 AND most of the world was still using DOS and MOST software vendors were still writing products to DOS spec's.

Now, you and a handful of others discover that Unix or Macintosh or even something similar to Windows XP exists, but from someone else other than Microsoft, but the world for the most part, is still using, and accepting DOS even though there are much better options out there. Microsoft in this example would be making billions if not trillions of dollars, but giving you no real performance upgrades.

Mag-light introduced an AWSOME light when they first came out, and now have market penetration over the whole world, and most of the world thinks they are the best, but in actuality, they have not really improved their product (except add colors!) since it first came out.

I hope they come out with new products that blow EVERY other flashlight manufacturer out of the water with improved products. WHY, because now the "high end" flashlight manufactures will now have to improve THEIR products. WHO wins? We all do!

Except for the people wanting a lead pipe as a flashlight, who would not rather have a Surge instead of a MAG 4D ?

X-CalBR8,

Easy now...first, just let me say that I'm not offended by your comments, but amused instead at how volatile the subject has become.

I don't believe I've actually done any bad-mouthing against MagLite. I believe I simply stated in a previous post that I used the altered reference to possibly dodge searches (whether or not it even matters at all).

I do recall stating that I won't be buying new ones or recommending them to others, and the reason is because there are far better choices now than there were 20 years ago.

My recent post regarding a problem I'm having was about an order for REPLACEMENT PARTS for the MagLites I have owned for a very long time.

Didn't I give credit for the fact that they are durable? Didn't I also state that the company has the right to conduct their business as they they choose, whether or not it suits my principals?

I'm not going to throw the old MagLites away or leave them in the drawer where they've been for the last ten years or more. They're just one of many reasons why I registered here.

I've quickly learned that they can be made much better, and even taylored to suit my specific needs. They'll never compete with my new Tiger Light, but then they don't need to. They'll still have their uses. We can't ever have too many lights anyway, right?

I do bad-mouth those who have control over the fuel prices, but I still buy gasoline and fuel oil. I don't have any other viable choice on this. I suppose that does make me a hypocrite, none the less.

I've said more than enough - I'm ready to move on to more important subjects. I hope everyone is...

John

Illuminated: Sorry if it seemed that I was picking on you in particular. I was not. I just chose that quote completely at random and it could have easily been one of hundreds of other post done by other members of CPF here recently. I just can't count the number of post that I've read in recent months by other CPF members where Mag-Lite is condemned for their evil ways and then the same person goes on to say how they just bought a new Mag-Lite or Mag-Lite parts & accessories. I guess all the hypocrisy just finally made me snap and I wanted to let everyone know that protestations by mere words alone would mean nothing to a corporation as large and as money grubbing as Mag-Lite is.

I also wanted people to think about who it is that they are supporting every time they spend their money on a product, any product. If you hate that a company is using their army of lawyers to trash and run out of business all of their smaller competitors (as Mag was trying with Arc recently) then don't give that company any more ammunition. Don't give them any more money. For me that evil corporation that I chose to no longer ever support was Microsoft, but for others here it seems like they would choose Mag-Lite, for very similar reasons. Whoever it is that you choose to be against just remember what they are going to do with all of the money that they make from you and ask yourself if it's worth it.

XC,

No problem, I hear you. In fact, the whole *ag/ARC thing has motivated me to buy an ARC LE as soon as the supply problem is sorted out, and possibly others as I learn more about them.

As individuals, each is entitled to making his/her own decisions, and while one person's actions may not make much difference to a large corporation (or government), the actions of many individuals can. It's not much different than voting (except perhaps we have much better choices when purchasing products).

Everything's going to work out, one way or another...

John

It probably doesn't bother *aglite that my last six flashlight purchases were NOT of products made by them, just as it doesn't bother Microsoft that this is a = MICROSOFT FREE ZONE = since 1983.

It does, however, make me feel better for my own reasons.

What I saw at the start of the munged Maglight spellings were efforts to thwart any net search efforts by Maglica and his cronies. Any words said regarding Maglight, whether good or bad, has value from a legal standpoint. It seems to have evolved into a chance to throw stones at Maglight. Such is less purposeful, I suppose, but possibly more gratifying to some.

I wondering why this thread is in the Chat forum instead of the Cafe.

"I wondering why this thread is in the Chat forum instead of the Cafe."

Did I hit the wrong section of the board with this rant of mine? Sorry about that if I did. It's just not that often that I get worked up enough to post on such an off-topic such as this. I'm usually writing reviews to try and help others to make more educated buying decisions, or even more fun, writing about my latest mod project.

I love my Maglite.

It's kind of ironic that people suggesting that it is silly to use "**g**te" are spelling it "Maglight".

the correct spelling is "Maglite" or sometimes "MAG-LITE" and the company is "MAG Instrument, Inc."

I don't think most here hate Maglite products, they are just disappointed that such a large flashlight maker, with extensive manufacturing capabilities and huge development resources can't seem to make a few basic inprovements over the years other than offerring new case colors. I asked for and got a beautiful pewter 3D Maglite for Christmas. It is flawless in it's manufacturing and feels great in my hand. The output is so lame however, that I can't find a single use for it "as is" where it would be better than any of the lights I already own. On the other hand, it was what?...all of $15? The Mini-Mag 2 x AA is $7...no one else can match the economies of scale that Mag Instrument has. What other machined anodized alluminum anything can you get for $7, batteries included? I asked for it knowing I'd have to mod it to be happy.....unfortunately most consumers are stuck with it "as is".

They have every right to keep manufacturing the same basic high quality looking flashlights. No law says they have to actually be any good at lighting up what you point it at. Judging by the empty displays at every discount store in my area after Christmas....they are selling a LOT of flashlights and probably 95% of their customers think they are great products.

All I want them to do is use a textured reflector or something new once in a while. Anything...

As for the lawsuits...well, I'm tired of typing.

Logical: I really have nothing against the Mag products. I think they make great flashlight bodies and that's why I use them for so many mods. The only thing that I find truly offensive about them is that they use all of their spare cash to fund legal battles to try to grind their smaller competition into the dust instead of using that same cash to build a better/cheaper product. I find this practice to be offensive above all other business tactics and is also why I am so very anti-Microsoft because they use an army (not as much hyperbole as you may think) of lawyers to drive their smaller, less legally equipped, competition to it's knees instead of competing with them on equal ground.

I think we can agree on that point X-cal. the Brinkmann lawsuit was fair though I think. I have an old brinkmann 2AA in my desk here that I always thought was a mag until the topic came up here and I looked close at it.

Moved to the Cafe'. Follow it via the link up by your name.

we probably make up %.00001 of mag's market. they sell to the unimformed public who could care less which is well beyond this 3,000+ membership. if you need something mag buy it, if you want to protest knock yourself out.

I realize that all of us protesting Mag-Lite would probably be pointless from the perspective of getting them to change their policies. We are simply too few compared to their total market size to make a significant difference. The reason that I started this thread was to let people know how hypocritical it was to complain about how bad Mag is, purposely misspell their name out of protest, but still go on to buy their products and support the company that they say they don't like! I just wanted to help people to realize that every time that you buy a product from a company (any company) that uses lawyers to run it's competition out of business that you are helping to fuel those lawyers. I just wanted to help people think about the decisions that they make in life and the consequences that those decisions carry. As one person said earlier in this thread, when you buy something it is almost like voting. So few people seem to truly understand my purpose in making this observation that I now just wish that I had not wasted my time in typing this whole thread and getting everyone into an uproar in the first place… As usual, I'm just trying to encourage people to ponder their decisions in life… *Sigh*

X-cal, i don't think anybody's in an uproar, you've made excellent points.

tkl: Thank you for your words of encouragement. Maybe I did not waste my time after all. If this thread helps even one person to stop and think then it was all worthwhile.

XC,

Alright - I like to think that I'm a person who has integrity. I whole-heartedly believe that one's actions speak louder than words, and now I've somehow felt the need to look back and review my own actions to see whether or not my behavior is consistent with my beliefs, so here goes...

In the last 60 days or so, I've spent $673 on flashlights and accessories, not including the $30 worth of MagLite replacement parts for repairing my own Mags, as well as my family's, and those of a few close friends. That figure also includes two custom mods from two of CPF's most highly regarded modders.

I think I voted well...

John

Way to go John! The more you help support Mag's competition, the more likely it is that you will grab Mag's attention than if you simply boycotted Mag's products. Perhaps if Mag sees it's potential profits going to the competition that will help them to rethink their policies.

I can hardly wait to get an Arc LS and it is my hope that my money goes to help Arc fight Mag in the courts. From what I've been reading on the forum, Mag thinks that basically any flashlight that uses an aluminum tube is an infringement on the patents which they hold. With that kind of logic, none of their competition would stand a chance in a legal battle. I just hope that Arc can afford the legal expenses to get such ridiculous and far reaching claims dismissed out of court.

Let me jump in and be the bad guy.
If I was C.E.O. of Mag and responsible to my shareholders I would be duty bound to go after ANY torch I or my experts felt was infringing on our copyrights. I would also produce lights that made money and sold in huge volumes. Lumens take a back seat to profit. I would clearly state I was in the business to make money, that's what a business is supposed to do. When and if my customer base decided they didn't want to buy my $7-$20 light anymore because they wanted more power I would give them more power. It really is about the almighty dollar and Mag and Microsoft don't try to hide it. Microsoft and Mag haters vote with their pocketbook, that's all that matters. The idea that Mag and Microsoft should change the way they do business so that new companies can thrive goes against the premise of a free market society. Mag has competition, why, because people vote with their pocketbook and a fair number have decided they want more light. To think Mag is going to idly sit by while they lose market share is not realistic. They will go down kicking and screaming. The Microsoft haters that actually vote with their wallet is such a small minority it is insignificant. The reality is Microsoft makes a pretty good product and protects it with every means available, if you owned it wouldn't you? Or, are you so generous you would voluntarily bundle XYZ software and release code to every software company wanna-be.

Want to talk about an Army of lawyers, every state that sued Microsoft had their own army of lawyers. Microsoft was not built on giving away business or being fair and equal. Microsoft was built on hard work and a platform the masses support. Let's face it, MAC makes a better computer and probably a better OS so why aren't they being attacked by MAC haters. Answer, MAC's cost more than the mass market will pay. Profit has become a dirty word to some people and some feel if a company makes too much money they are a bad company and really unfair, why I don't know, it might be a spin-off of class warfare.

With all that being said, My only Mag is my AA with a Dat2zip BB 500 installed. I gave away my other Mag's. I doubt I will buy another Mag because they don't perform to my new-found standards since joining CPF. If Mag wants to sue someone it should be CPF for enlightening people like myself that for all practical purposes were still in the dark.

David