I think my auto mechanic might be ripping me off.

First let me say that I know nothing about cars. I drive an older model mercury sable, but the miles are only around 90,000.

Last week my temperature gauge started going wacky, and I started getting over heating problems. I took the car to a local mechanic, and he charged me 60 bucks to repair a hose in my radiator. Well two days after my car was repaired I noticed a huge amount of anti freeze leaking under my car. Well I took it back to the shop, and the guy looks at it again. Then he shows me a hole in the radiator itself, which looks like a perfect little hole about the size an ice pick would make. I ask him why he didn't spot this problem before, and he says these things happen with older cars. That you can get multiple leaks at once. Well the guy tells me I need to replace my entire radiator, and it's going to cost me 260, including labor.

Now I know zip about car engines. This guy could have made this hole himself, knowing I'd have to come back for more work, or he could be giving me an honest answer. It sure seems like an odd coincidence though...

Either way I'm screwed, and I'll never know the truth.

PS: I drove the car home, and called a few other shops. All of them quoted me the same repair price.

Raven

Well for starters...if you think you've got a bad mechanic go ahead and move on! The Sable is a twin to the Ford Taurus, a car almost any mechanic should be able to work on--no specialized Volvo mechanic required here.

What year, by the way?

What the mechanic says is 95% truthful and accurate--as you replace one thing in a sealed system like the cooling system the next weakest link can blow. The hole, as you describe it, does sound a bit suspicious though.

Is the hole on the inside facing or outside? ie. could it have been a stone or something, coming from the outside, or as you say, an "accidental" ice pick accessible only from the inside...

I'd advice against driving your car any more than absolutely necessary. But hang on, it's winter in the US right? So why do you need a cooling system at all? Don't worry, get it fixed in the summer...

Facing inside from the top, at the most reachable point of the radiator.

Raven

That could be naturally occurring, what the other guys say is correct, BUT, it is also one of the most common scams around too.

I'd take it somewhere else, and get someone else to check the radiator. If the rest is in good shape, that one leak can be soldered for about ten bucks if it is a copper or brass radiator and about $30 if it is aluminum.

Ok I was kind of stunned when the guy told me it needed to be replaced, and I remember asking him why it couldn't be patched, and I believe he said the radiator was plastic, but that couldn't be right could it.

Raven

If it is , he should patent it...

Actually, it could be partially correct- I have never actually seen one, but have heard of them now that you mention it.

Here is a link that might be of interest:
http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1996/May/14.html

And another:
http://www.narsa.org/press/releases/980201.htm

Wow Silviron. Those two links might have just saved me some serious cash - thanks !

Raven

Errm.... I think I need to retract my previous post.

Wow Silviron, I never thought it could be true...
Of course, now that I think of it, there are plastics with a high enough melting point to perform the task, but I'm still wondering about heat transfer capabilities, are we going to see 100 % plastic radiators in the near future?
Any thoughts?

TIA,

Yeah- The first time I heard of "plastic radiators" I thought I mis-heard too. There are plenty of plastics that can stand the heat and the pressure, but I really don't see the point.

Why put up with the inherent weaknesses in joining plastic tanks to metal cooling tubes when you only save a pound or so? I'll stick with all metal, thank you very much.

I doubt we will see any COMPLETELY plastic radiators soon. The heat dissipation would be very inefficient ( as those of us who have modded all-plastic flashlight bodies with Luxeons have discovered).

Hey Silviron,
Thanks for your thoughts... they reflcect mine too.. Not all progress actually means going forwards...
Take care,

If the cooling of the radiator isn't compromised, and it's only that pinhole that's leaking, you can try using a two part epoxy putty such as Quicksteel to patch it. If it's on one of the tanks, it should be simple enough to sand the surface lightly to get good adhesion, then mix and apply the putty on the hole.
If it's on the core itself, it'd be more difficult to clean off, but it should still be possible. If you had to, you could even crimp off the tube that's broken and seal it. One tube won't make much difference in cooling capacity.
Since you're already headed on the road to replacement, you may as well give it a try. Just make sure it's clean and dry. Done properly, it'll probably last longer than the life of the rest of the radiator.

As far as it being deliberate sabotage, if you drove two days without it leaking, I would say it probably wasn't. It would be pretty hard to do something like that and rig it with a time release capsule to just blow up after two days...

Nice links you have there Silviron. I had thought of using a sheet metal screw with a rubber washer under the screw head.
I have been using radiator shops for the last twenty years. A good one can save you lots of money.

I would also think that if they ice-picked you that it would have been leaking a few minutes after you drove out of the shop, as soon as the engine warmed up and fluid started flowing through the radiator. Unless what your problem really is the thermostat and the reason it was over heating is that no water ever flowed through the radiator

but DEFINITELY get more than one estimate, it's like going to a surgeon, don't get anything done till you've spoken to more than one doctor!

I had my oil changed at a place down the block here that was convenient. They seemed nice enough so I called them when summer rolled around and i needed a recharge on my AC system. The guy told me "It's too cold to charge it today, we might put in the too much or too little" Well, it is my understanding that you measure refrigerant by weight, not pressure! I verified this with the next mechanic that i finally took it too and he was as flabbergasted by that statement as I was. So the morons down the street no longer get any of my business. I had a violin teacher who was a real gear head, but because she was a woman she often heard really funny things at shops where they didn't know her. At one point she was told she needed a "new headlight pump" so people definitely do scam you and do really stupid things! So take it somewhere else to get the radiator fixed.

You probably can patch it for a while anyway. but know that it will pop through again when you're stuck in a 100 mile traffic jam on the highway with no exits in site on the hottest day of the summer. So if you do that instead make sure you always have a few extra gallons of water in the trunk!

Most radiators now are aluminum with plastic end tanks crimped on. Yes, plastic can take the heat. Many new car intake manifolds are plastic now!

Check this audio clip out!!!

http://amorphis.linuxinside.com/~pruchai/car_repair.asf

Originally posted by JackBlades:
Most radiators now are aluminum with plastic end tanks crimped on. Yes, plastic can take the heat. Many new car intake manifolds are plastic now!

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now if they make exhaust manifolds out of plastic, I'll be impressed!

Originally posted by James S:
...snip...I had my oil changed at a place down the block here that was convenient. They seemed nice enough so I called them when summer rolled around and i needed a recharge on my AC system. The guy told me "It's too cold to charge it today, we might put in the too much or too little" Well, it is my understanding that you measure refrigerant by weight, not pressure! ...snip...

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GO BACK TO THE FIRST GUY

Refrigerant is SOLD by weight, and the initial charge at the factory is done by weight, but a recharge (Unless you are working with a mint condition system, AND are willing to totally pump down the system) are charged by pressure/heat loss

Each refrigerant has a pressure curve, and it's on the manifold gages that the HVAC mechanic uses. He monitors the High Side and Low Side pressures, as well as the status if the evaporator coil, and works form there - of course the BEST way is to use the sight glass if your car has one (there are heat loss monitors that can be used without it) You work on a warm to hot day (it's best), and you look for BUBBLES is the sight glass (the sight is right after the evaporator coil) You charge the running system until the bubbles JUST go away - the gages are to tell the status of the system (if there are problems the sight glass might not work) What you are doing is adjusting the amount of "gas" until it JUST finsihes evaporating at the end of the coil - of course, it only does this at one temperature

Originally posted by James S:
I had a violin teacher who was a real gear head, but because she was a woman she often heard really funny things at shops where they didn't know her. At one point she was told she needed a "new headlight pump" so people definitely do scam you and do really stupid things!

Click to expand...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well...if you're driving a car with headlight washers