Some consumer laws are absurd!

Marty Weiner

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I had my car's oil changed today.

At the end, the technician held up my dirty, oily old oil filter and asked if I wanted it.

I just looked at him like he was kidding. He wasn't. Some ridiculous law says that he has to offer the old car parts to an owner who requests it. The oil change place accumulates the old filters until the car leaves the scene.

I can see an alternator or some other expensive part going back to the owner on request but a filter?
 

Pumaman

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i think its to prove the mechanic actually did something. my neighbor is a mechanic and says its easy to be dishonest.
 

zigziggityzoo

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some people want them....

the only ones they don't have to offer in return (here in MI) are those that are either too large or heavy, or those that are required to return to the manufacturer for a core charge, deposit refund, or warranty exchange.

That means you get offered your old tires, broken belts, hoses, windshield wipers, you name it.

Yay.
 

Eugene

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Years ago we had a dealership replace a fuel pump that didn't need replacing, I wish that they had offered it to me so I could have proven it wasn't faulty. I got smart after that and started doing my own work, I can make guesses cheaper than someone else can.
I keep my old tires too, around here they want to charge a disposal fee. I give them to my father and he puts them on farm equipment that will never be driven on a paved road and gets a few more years out of them, beats paying for tires to get ripped open on a rock or tree stump or something.
 

swampgator

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Old tires are excellent lead receptors for those of us who have backyard pistol ranges. I used to put all my old tires in front of my berm to help absord rounds impacting.
 

chevrofreak

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Not only will it help keep the shop honest, disecting the filter and looking at what it has trapped can give you some insight into the health of your engine.

On another note, do yourself a favor and make sure no Fram filter is ever installed during an oil change. Fram makes some of the worst filters you can get.
 

Eugene

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Yes, don't touch fram
I used to use fram and one day a fuel filter split open on me, I thought it was just a fluke thing until a few years later and I started reading horror stories on the internet of people who had fram failures of one kind or another.
But fram or not, my time and money is important to me so I'm not sitting in any line or waiting room to have someone else change my oil and miss half the grease fittings or leave the drain plug loose. I can change the oil in less time than it takes me to drive to anywhere to pay someone and then I know its done right.
 

Mike Painter

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Marty Weiner said:
I had my car's oil changed today.

At the end, the technician held up my dirty, oily old oil filter and asked if I wanted it.

I just looked at him like he was kidding. He wasn't. Some ridiculous law says that he has to offer the old car parts to an owner who requests it. The oil change place accumulates the old filters until the car leaves the scene.

I can see an alternator or some other expensive part going back to the owner on request but a filter?

The law was passed because of the millions made by people who charged for the replacement of parts and never did the work. The cost of the part is rarely the major portion of a bill *unless* it is something big and obvious.

Accepting those parts makes it more difficult for someone to use that part to con somebody else and gives you evidence that fraud, rather than a mistake was made if something does go wrong.
 

carbine15

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Fram still makes good filters. Just not the best filters. For filters, you get what you pay for. Amsoil makes the best but your auto parts store probly doesnt carry it. Most of the damaging particles in your oil come from the air side. That's where you need the real good filters. Paper just doesnt cut it. Oil cotton or better yet, Open cell foam air filters trap more air and filter more dirt from the top of your engine.
 

chevrofreak

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carbine15 said:
Fram still makes good filters. Just not the best filters. For filters, you get what you pay for. Amsoil makes the best but your auto parts store probly doesnt carry it. Most of the damaging particles in your oil come from the air side. That's where you need the real good filters. Paper just doesnt cut it. Oil cotton or better yet, Open cell foam air filters trap more air and filter more dirt from the top of your engine.


Cost doesnt always equal quality. The inexpensive Super Tech brand filters from Walmart are excellent quality.
 

Eugene

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Ok, Fram makes filters that do filter well, thats why they do well in tests like CU. The problem with them is they are poorly constructed so they are more failure prone than others. So if you define good filters as filtering good then yes they do, but if you define good as won't fail and damage your engine then they are not.
 

goldenlight

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Right here....
jayflash said:
And to think that Consumer Reports rated Fram on top for many years. Was Fram good for awhile, in the 1980's, or was CU way off?

I suspect you can find 'horror stories' about any product which sells millions of units every year. A few are bound to fail, most likely due to improper installation.

Consumer reports did give Fram oil filters top marks, in an older report. Fram filters removed the most test particles (5 to 10 micron) of any filter tested.

I've been using nothing but Fram oil filters for at least 20 years. That's is in 5 different vehicles. No problems of any kind, if you don't count the filter where the gasket had fallen off in the box. I put it back.

Duh.

That would have been a 'horror story'....if I had an IQ of about 80, that is....
 

Eugene

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goldenlight said:
I suspect you can find 'horror stories' about any product which sells millions of units every year. A few are bound to fail, most likely due to improper installation.

Consumer reports did give Fram oil filters top marks, in an older report. Fram filters removed the most test particles (5 to 10 micron) of any filter tested.

I've been using nothing but Fram oil filters for at least 20 years. That's is in 5 different vehicles. No problems of any kind, if you don't count the filter where the gasket had fallen off in the box. I put it back.

Duh.

That would have been a 'horror story'....if I had an IQ of about 80, that is....

There isn't much you can do to improperly install an oil or fuel filter. I thought mine was just a fluke thing until I saw the other stories of failures.
Yes, they filter good, I'm not arguing that, but they are poorly constructed, CR doesn't test that.
I used them for years too but thats like saying "I haven't worn a seatbelt in years and have never been hurt in an accident" and have never been in an accident. Just because you haven't had a failure yet doesn't mean you won't someday. Mine was a fuel filter and was from back before they were mounted under the frame so I had fuel spraying under my hood, I could have been killed or killed someone else all because they decided to cheapen the crimp on the fuel filter can. If you don't care about you life go ahead and use them, just stay off the public roads where you can't anyone else.
 

bitslammer

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K & N


High performance and reusable...if you're lucky enough to find one spec'd for you car.


Um edit...was thinking about their AIR FILTERS!!! Those are resueable. The Oil filters are NOT! :laughing:
 
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swampgator

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bitslammer said:
K & N

High performance and reusable...if you're lucky enough to find one spec'd for you car.

Agreed! For the cost of 2 conventional aftermarket air filters for my truck I bought a K&N. Clean and recharge every couple thousand miles.

Haven't used a K&N oil filter though.
 

ABTOMAT

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The few times I've had work done at a garage (I usually do my own) I _demand_ the old parts back. You're just asking to get screwed if you don't. Anyone who thinks this law is silly is blissfully unaware.

Most Fram filters are poorly made, and their best filter is way overpriced. Oil filters are a lot more complicated than some people realize. No need to get an expensive one, just a well-made one. I've been using Motorcraft (likely by Purolator) in my Jeep for a while with no problems.

I'm not sold in K&N air filters unless you live in a dust-free climate. All the tests I've seen showed they let more dirt into the engine than any other brand. To me, reduced wear is worth more than a couple extra HP.
 
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