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Thread: 1st impression LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* [more shots addes 02-07, P91vsEO-9]

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default 1st impression LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* [more shots addes 02-07, P91vsEO-9]

    Ok I just got 3 lamp assemblies in.. all D26
    3.7V HO-4 (*tested 1.8A)
    9V EO-9 (*tested 2.0A)
    9V HO-9 (*tested 1.6A)

    before I begin I want to say that these lamps have a very FAT shape and do not fit properly in some flashlights. my ultrafire does not support these lamp without major modifications. (been grinding away material for awhile now to make room)... so if you have an ultrafire or similar light, you might want to take into consideration that these may NOT fit. (EDIT IN, CORRECTION: read below for more details on this, some ultrafires fit, some do not)

    I'll probably take beamshots later tonight or tomorrow night if I have time. my initial impression of light output is that the EO-9, supposedly rated 380 lumen's, is about 60-70% as bright as the P91. (comparisons done on pair of 17670s). I was hoping this would be brighter, but oh well.. worth a try...

    the 3.7V appears reasonably bright, a little brighter than the stock maxfire lamp...

    *just tested current draw... going to top batteries off for beamshots tonight. I think it is fair to say that these lamps, are proportional in output to their wattage when compared to other lamps, no magic pixie dust here, more power makes more light... The 2.0A draw of my EO-9 would put it at ~75% of the *power* of a P91(2.7A), They both run very similarly white off a pair of li-ions, suggesting that they are being driven into the same realm of efficiency.... using this simple method of comparisons on paper, we could also say that according to LFs measuring techniques, a P91 would score over 510 lumens. The HO-9 also appears to be right in the ballpark, appearing brighter than a 1.2A G&P G90, but of course- dimmer than it's big cousin. The HO-4, again, appears to be right in line producing an appropriate amount of light for the power consumption. The tight/smooth beams of all of the LF LAs is really impressive. LF has offered some great "sweet spots" for LAs IMO. niches that haven't been addressed by other brands. After playing around some more, I am really liking the beam pattern of the EO-9 when compared to the P91, I think I'll be willing to sacrifice some lumen's for this beam and longer runtime. I think I'll probably pick up an Ultrafire WF-502D to replace the older model that I had to really grind out to fit these lamps.

    more to come later....

    **BEAMSHOTS













    *** really wanted to have a comparison of the LF EO-9 and the SF P91 that takes the beam profile out of the picture and really shows raw output. A ceiling bounce shot- with the picts taken from a different room through the door is great for this because it totally eliminates the beam from the shot. In each picture, the light is in the same position on a table back around the corner inside the room pointed straight up.



    *edit in 1/18/07@11:38am
    **edit in 1/19/07@3:03am
    ***edit in 2/7/07@4:17am
    Last edited by mdocod; 02-07-2007 at 05:22 AM.
    -Eric

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    Flashaholic* Mark@LF's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    mdocod,

    Our reflector modules are made for Wolf-eyes, Pila, G&P, Surefire flashlights. Ultrafire flashlight model WF502B should fit in the HO-4 without problem. Maybe there is some design difference for 3 cells Ultrafire flashlight.

    Our reflector modules are designed more throw than flood, in long range, you may discover the difference in brightness. Actually, the total output of P91 is higher than that of our EO-9, but most of P91's light is in the spill, while most of our light is in the centre spot.

    Thank you for your order and look forward to your beamshots.

    Mark
    We will not fade silently into the night! Keep that hotwire burning!
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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    Thats odd, I just received my EO-9 today and it is definitely brighter, by about 15%, whiter and has a more intense hotspot than my P91. The host was however 2 9P's with an a19 bored out with 2x18650. Not sure if your decreased output is due to the smaller batteries or just a weak/defective lamp. I received 2 EO-9's and they are both brighter than any of my P91's.

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    Flashaholic* nikon's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark@LF
    mdocod,...the total output of P91 is higher than that of our EO-9...Mark
    If the Lumen Factory EO-9 is rated at 380 lumens and the Surefire P91 is rated at 225 lumens, how can the P91 have higher total output? I only ask because
    .
    Want to buy Tektite and Tekna lights and parts. PM me with what you have.

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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    You can see my posts in the LF thread, but I agree the P91 is a tad brighter. They are both pretty close. I even made my younger brother do a blind test and tell me which was brighter. He chose the P91 each time. I do like the EO-9 beam a little better (much rounder than the P91) and you can't beat the value of this lamp, really. Like I said, they are both very close in my opinion.

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    Flashaholic* Mark@LF's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    Nikon,

    You are correct, I have mistaken and regarded it as the HO-9, the HO-9 is 320 bulb lumens. The EO-9 should be brighter than P91, the bulb lumens of P91 should be about 350 to 360 bulb lumens. The 225 lumens of P91 is the torch lumens which is about 60 to 65% of the bulb lumens. However, our naked eyes cannot distinguish the difference in light output within +/- 15% range.

    You are really SMART.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark@LF; 01-17-2007 at 11:48 PM.
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    Flashaholic* DUQ's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    Im interested in seeing some shots of the 3.7V HO-4 compared to a P60 or something similar. I have a WE 3.7v LA on order with a new light and was thinking of getting the 3.7V HO-4.
    LED's impress but Incans satisfy

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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    The bulb lumens is 330ish if you do the math from the rated 200 lumen p91 bulb. Interestingly enough my girlfriend also picked the EO-9 as the brighter lamp each time when shined at the ceiling. No mistaking about it, my EO-9 bulbs are brighter than my p91 bulbs, if only slightly.

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    batteries aren't anywhere near charged up.... so probably not going to be tonight...

    funny thing... I ordered my batteries from AW almost a full week before ordering these LAs from LF, batteries still haven't come yet... mail from overseas is weird... these tests would be easier with the rest of those batteries here.... so maybe i'll wait till they come (hopefully tomorrow)...

    also... a bit of a correction on the ultrafire compatibility... (as already mentioned by mark).... our 3 cell version of the light has a different shape at the head and the LF assemblies DO fit in that light... The light that it did not fit into, was a 4 cell version. WF-503B. The WF-502B fits fine.... weird...

    So now I wonder if the NEW versions of the ultrafire (WF-502D) http://www.qualitychinagoods.com/ult...ble-p-500.html
    will fit these LAs?
    -Eric

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    Default Re: first impressions of LumensFactory LAs... beamshots to follow..

    Just for reference on fitting, I have a WF 501C that the LF fits into perfectly. Wouldn't surprise me if Ultrafire was a bit inconsistent in sizing

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs. beamshots coming. also compatability info..

    -Eric

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    Flashaholic* Outdoors Fanatic's Avatar
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    Thinking Re: first impression of LF LAs. beamshots coming. also compatability info..

    Quote Originally Posted by mdocod
    Ok I just got 3 lamp assemblies in.. all D26
    3.7V HO-4
    9V EO-9
    9V HO-9

    before I begin I want to say that these lamps have a very FAT shape and do not fit properly in some flashlights. my ultrafire does not support these lamp without major modifications. (been grinding away material for awhile now to make room)... so if you have an ultrafire or similar light, you might want to take into consideration that these may NOT fit. (EDIT IN, CORRECTION: read below for more details on this, some ultrafires fit, some do not)

    I'll probably take beamshots later tonight or tomorrow night if I have time. my initial impression of light output is that the EO-9, supposedly rated 380 lumen's, is about 60-70% as bright as the P91. (comparisons done on pair of 17670s). I was hoping this would be brighter, but oh well.. worth a try...

    havn't tested the HO-9 yet...

    the 3.7V appears reasonably bright, a little brighter than the stock maxfire lamp...

    more to come later....
    Nobody ever said that LF bulbs were designed to work in UltraFire lights.

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs. beamshots coming. also compatability info..

    did I imply that I had been told this?
    -Eric

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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs. beamshots coming. also compatability info..

    I just posted some comparison pics in the lumens factory thread on page 13 in the manufacturers corner showing the p91 on left vs the EO-9 on the right.
    Not the greatest, but illustrate my observations that the EO-9 is brighter.
    Here they are for the lazy people
    Taken from 5FT
    http://www.imagestation.com/8492861/3943188242
    http://www.imagestation.com/8492861/3943188238
    Last edited by pete7226; 01-18-2007 at 02:02 PM.

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs. beamshots coming. also compatability info..

    your EO-9 definitely looks brighter in the beam... has me wondering how/why... mostly i think it's because of the tighter focus.... I' going to try to capture the effects of overall output and not just the beam intensity- probably do a ceiling bounce picture comparison.
    Last edited by mdocod; 01-18-2007 at 09:37 PM.
    -Eric

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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs. beamshots coming. also compatability info..

    The variance in colour temperature may be having an affect on brightness perception.
    LED's impress but Incans satisfy

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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    Quote Originally Posted by mdocod
    The tight/smooth beams of all of the LF LAs is really impressive. LF has offered some great "sweet spots" for LAs IMO. niches that haven't been addressed by other brands. After playing around some more, I am really liking the beam pattern of the EO-9 when compared to the P91, I think I'll be willing to sacrifice some lumen's for this beam and longer runtime. I think I'll probably pick up an Ultrafire WF-502D to replace the older model that I had to really grind out to fit these lamps.
    I have to agree with you. I have been playing around with the EO-9 and I'm really enjoying it. I think it's a little whiter than the P91 and the beam is definitely very smooth. I love the P91 for it's huge amount of flood (wall of light) but the EO-9 has more throw and still provides a decent amount of close range flood. The EO-9 just kills the G90 lamps that I have as well as the P90 (as expected).

    I was expecting 380 lumens to kill the P91 but I didn't realize it was rated as bulb lumens so I understand now.

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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    Mdocod, nice shots, interesting performance.

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    Ironic Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    Why do people keep saying the EO9 is whiter when it's obviously not if you look at the pictures.

    Personally, I'll take the P91.

    The Surefire P91 makes the Steamlight SL20X I use at work look orange in comparison.

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    actually... you can't use my picts as reference for color temp... my camera does not have a manually adjustable and settable white balance (is that the correct terminology, i'm not a *good* photographer?)..

    anyways... in person, the EO-9 and P91 are both very white...

    It should be noted that because I am driving the P91 with a pair of good li-ions, it's brighter and whiter than it would be on 3xCR123s.
    -Eric

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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    Infidelcastro, if you look at the pics I took you will see that the EO_9 is whiter. If you look at Mdocods pics the P91 appears brighter. Others are also have different experiences with which bulb is whiter. There is apparently some variation in the output of all of these bulbs.

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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    I also agree that the EO-9 is whiter than the P91. Maybe not quite as much overall output, but whiter.

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    so the question now is... why is petes EO-9 brighter than his P91...
    eithor:
    A: he has a defective P91 that is dimmer than it should be.
    B: he has a defective EO-9 that is brighter than it should be.
    C: I have a defective EO-9 that is dimmer than it should be.
    D: I have a defective P91 that is brighter than it should be.
    E: none of the lamps are defective, because they are all really bright WOOHOO!

    hey pete- have you measured current on a DMM to those lamps? I get 2.0A to the EO-9 and 2.7A to the P91, is this consistant with your LAs?
    -Eric

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    Shrug Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    I have no instrumentation to do that with. Just lights. I am curious though. Probably sounds stupid but what would I need? a voltmeter? and how is it measured?

  25. #25

    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    Hi mdocod/pete7226,

    Have either of you run the EO9 for more than the specified 10mins continuously? I am really tempted to get the EO9 but am a bit wary of the 10mins limitation. I plan the run the lamp on 2X18650.

    I am also wondering - if the ROP-High which draws 4A, can be run continuously off 2X18650 in a Mag-ROP, then shouldn't the EO9 which draws only 2A, pose less of a problem as far as heat is concerned?

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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    I haven't, for what I use it for I only run it for 5-7 minutes at a time. It did however last much longer on 2X18650 than the advertised 35 minutes. At about 35 minutes I compared it along side a c3 with p90 and the EO-9 was still brighter, but not as bright as the first 30 minutes of use. After 45 minutes of use, it was about as bright as the p90.
    Last edited by pete7226; 01-21-2007 at 01:09 PM.

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    Flashaholic* NAW's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    Quote Originally Posted by mdocod
    so the question now is... why is petes EO-9 brighter than his P91...
    eithor:
    A: he has a defective P91 that is dimmer than it should be.
    B: he has a defective EO-9 that is brighter than it should be.
    C: I have a defective EO-9 that is dimmer than it should be.
    D: I have a defective P91 that is brighter than it should be.
    E: none of the lamps are defective, because they are all really bright WOOHOO!
    One thing to keep in mind is that lumens and brightness are two different things. For ex. I have 2 P91 lamp assemblys and I can see that one of the LA puts out a "football" shaped beam. The other LA puts out a round and even circular beam. The "football" beam can appear to be brighter because it can throw twice as far as the circular beam even though they are the same amount of lumens (200).

    The same can be said for a 3D cell maglite Vs a 200 lumen surefire. The Maglite puts out way less lumens but can easily appear brighter becasue the beam can be concentrated.
    Last edited by NAW; 01-21-2007 at 06:53 PM.

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    Default 9V, 12V, 13V beam shots using 168A cells: Lumens Factory vs. Wolf Eyes vs. RICO

    All shots were taken from 3 meters (10 feet), using two or three Wolf Eyes 168A cells (2000 mAh) measuring 4.14 to 4.18V off the charger. Exposure was ISO 100, f/2.8, 1/60 second; white balance was set to Automatic. The only touch up was unsharp mask.

    I've arranged these beam shots from dimmest to brightest (as my eyes see them).

    First the D26s:

    D26 9V 4th Place--Wolf Eyes D26-9V, original model (pre-2006):



    Sorry that one's so dim; I had to meter these shots using the 700-lumen EO-13L as the reference.


    D26 9V 3rd Place--Wolf Eyes D36-9V (pre-2006):



    D26 9V 2nd Place--Lumens Factory HO-9:




    D26 9V 1st Place--Lumens Factory EO-9:



    9V D36 lamps:

    D36 9V 5th Place--Wolf Eyes D36-9V (pre-2006):



    D36 9V 4th Place--Wolf Eyes D36-9V (2006+):




    D36 9V 3rd Place--RICO Alpha 9:



    D36 9V 2nd Place--Lumens Factory HO-9L:



    D36 9V 1st Place--Lumens Factory EO-9L:



    12V and 13V D36:

    D36 12-13V 3rd Place--Wolf Eyes D36-13V:



    D36 12-13V 2nd Place--Wolf Eyes D36-12V (It survived a 30-second test on 168A cells):


    D36 12-13V 1st Place--Lumens Factory EO-13L:




    My favorites:

    For a D26, I favor the Lumens Factory HO-9. While its output can't quite match that of the EO-9, at 1.5 amps it can be easily run in a 2x150A body like the Wolf Eyes Raider. (PTS's Mike has written to me that this is his favorite combination.)

    For a D36, I'm sold on the 12V and 13V models. They're the only models whose beam is broad enough to illuminate the duct tape holding up the corners of my test target. Among the three contenders in this voltage class, I favor the Wolf Eyes D36-12V. It seems to be at least 80 percent as bright as the EO-13 but consumes far less current--1.3A vs. 2.4A. That's a huge difference and makes the Wolf Eyes 12V lamp the brightest D36 that can credibly be powered by 3x150A cells. Can it survive three 168A cells without premature failure? I think I'll test it now, even if that means I won't have one to run a set of tests using 150A cells. I'll report its longevity here or in a later post in this thread.

    Update 2007-01-21: The D36-12V lamp has now survived 1 full cycle on 168A cells. Lifespan testing continues.

    If you prefer a beam that's even from edge to edge, with little or no hot spot, look at the Wolf Eyes D26-9V (pre-2006), the RICO Alpha 9, and the Wolf Eyes D36-13V. I might have chosen the D36-13V over the D36-12V but the 13V draws more current (1.5A vs. 1.3A).

    Note: For lovers of thin bodies, I thought about testing my G&P G140 lamp using three 168A cells, but the G140 is very derated and would have fared poorly, even among D26s.
    Last edited by Paul_in_Maryland; 01-21-2007 at 10:38 PM.
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    Flashaholic* cfromc's Avatar
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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    I'm just about ready to order some bulbs, specifically the HO-9 and EO-9. Is it somewhat safe to say that the EO-9 puts out the same amount of light as the P91, but for double the run-time?

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    Default Re: first impression of LF LAs *BEAMSHOTS ADDED* also compatability info..

    cfromc: I'd say that the P91 is brighter by about the same factor as it is more power hungry... So.. somewhere around 35% more lumens... I'd also say that depending on the batteries, the EO-9 will run anywhere from 35-50% longer than the P91... lower drain rates usually result in better performance from the batteries... In most cases, I doubt you'd get double the runtime from the EO-9, but it would definetally be a decent amount longer.
    -Eric

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