My disappointment with CPF - Arc LS3

I wasn't going to post anything because of the volatile nature of the topic, but I can't hold my tongue any longer.

I haven't been on CPF very long and my opinion isn't highly regarded here, but I will voice it nonetheless. I only signed up to participate in CPF because this seemed to be a genuinely good place where the members were well-informed, respectful, and congenial. The numerous posts on the LS3 have made me reconsider this belief.

IMHO, Peter Gransee has been and continues to be one of the most generous and engaging individuals in the world of flashlights. I can think of no one else in any industry who has been as open in the development and production of his products with consumers.

Yes, he did make a mistake in not better informing the CPF about changing his intended plans on selling the LS3. Yes, it did inconvenience some people who wanted to buy one. But I am saddened and disgusted by the tone and content of some of the posts about the LS3 sale. If anything, Peter did nothing more egregious than trying to do too much to keep the CPF happy even while something as important as the S.H.O.T Show was imminent. There seems to be a sense of entitlement that Peter owes the CPF something because so many sales go to CPF members; I find that notion galling. He has produced superlative products and stands by those products. I think he owes no more than that. Unadulterated greed has blinded some to the fact that this is not some major crisis--the LS3 will eventually be available--and I would have thought that a number of events over the past couple of years would put this in perspective. I guess I was wrong.

I don't know Mr. Gransee and have never met him. I'm also not affiliated with Arc Flashlight in any way. He doesn't need me to defend him, but that's just how I see this. If you've actually read through this post, thank you for allowing me to vent. Maybe this will be my last post. I am really disappointed with the behavior I've seen. I know not all flashaholics are like this, but I just don't know if I want to continue to be involved.

Steve

i agree that peter is an excellent person and business man, and arc is an excellent company. i am also kind of alarmed at some of the responses some people have given about the ls3, what peter is trying to do is very difficult. a lesser company would not offer these, peter is giving himself a headache trying to offer these in the best and fairest way possible, and some people are only concerned with how it affects them.

please, don't let other people dictate your usage and presence on cpf. if anything, then we need more of your common sense and belief in what is right here. it took a lot of couage to write this post. please, don't leave just because there are some people you don't agree with.

Its just the sad fact of the nature of our species and specifically the socialist coddling culture of the current world that a certain percentage of the population are whining pompous annoying twits.

Due to the above issues and advances in medical technology, normally those people would be a victim of Darwin tendencies. But the sad fact is now we have to put up with a little more rot in the gene pool.


I honestly think Peter should just put all the LS3s up for auction and let the free market take care of it all. That way, what is fair will belong to the highest bidder.

But regardless, this issue is not indicative to CPF specifically. For the most part I have found this group having a much higher percentage of fairly considerate and intelligent life forms than the general human population.

I knew they were afraid of the dark, but "whining pompous annoying twits"? That's going too far.

Their disappointment was understandable. Their lack of forgiveness was not.

You caught CPF on a bad day.
We all have those.

I must agree...I actually have no idea what this is all about, so I will now read up on the issue. But I've had an almost universally positive experience on CPF as a semi-newbie, and even the disagreements I see are most often civil. I'm dismayed to hear that a number of our members have been unable to express displeasure constructively, especially over that which appears to be a simple case of frustrated expectations. Even if Mr. Gransee took money, refunding it would be all that anyone should ask of him.

As I said...I'll read up more on this. But do us all a favor, zackhugh, and stick around. Don't let your intense emotions over this incident rule your thinking as clearly some others have. CPF is a good place.

rusty

Peter is a great guy and Arc is a great company. I own many of their products.

It seems that Arc is trying their best to bring new and innovative products to market as fast as possible. That's called progress.

I hate to be heretical, but the LS3 is not a life-or-death product.
Waiting for my A2 has taught me a lot about patience in the flashlight world. ---Marc

We are a family and without occasional fights it wouldn't be much of a family

ZackHugh,

I think when you read the thread you have to realize that most of these posts were made in real time while people waited for an anounced sale that never happened.

Imagine if it were announced that tickets for one of your favorite bands were going to go on sale at a specific time. You and many other fans all get in line looking forward to trying to get tickets to the show, but the time for the ticket office to open comes and goes but still no one shows up to sell the tickets. 2 1/2 hours later someone comes by and announces that the sale may happen tomorrow. I think the grumbling, complaining, and bitching that would take place in a line like that would put all these posts to shame.

In no way is my post here meant to excuse any behavior; I am simply trying to explain it. Now personally, I didn't read every post and maybe I too would find some of them to be out of line but many of these posts were made in the heat of the moment, as it were.

That said, let me also say that the most of the posts that I did read complaining about the situation seemed justified to me. I like Arc a lot and from what I know of Peter, I like him. That doesn't change the fact that he screwed up this sale and that people have as much right to complain about it as they do to praise him for what he gets right.

Do I believe that we should all recognize that everyone makes mistakes and forgive Peter? Yes, I do.

So I guess the bottom line of my ramble here is please try to understand why people may have complained too forcefully and recognize that they too may have erred and that they too may need a break. Also just as this mishandling was out of character for Peter, I imagine some of these posts were out of character for the members who made them.

Just my humble opinion/rambling thoughts,
Pat

I was a little shocked as well reading the LS3 thread. I can understand the frustration some felt sitting in front of the screen, waiting and waiting for nothing. Some of these folks seemed to have the best intentions and were just disappointed and vented a little themselves. Part of the venting could have come from the fact Peter is well known for doing what he says so they were shocked. I also imagine someone was there to snatch up 3-10 units with a dog eat dog mentality and only cares about #1. Fortunately the latter being the very rare case here at CPF. I can say with all honesty I have never been around a more civil, good natured and generous bunch of folks outside the military than here at CPF over the last 5 months. I have been here just about every day since Sept. 02 and have really enjoyed myself, spent a lot of money and learned a load.

zackhugh, by your statements you seem like a died in the wool CPF'er and would likely fare well here. The LS3 comments won't be the last flame you see here but if you read old and new threads you will get a better idea of the kind of folks this place attracts.

The depth of the Flashlight Obsession was shown in those posts. Sheer unmitigated LUST for a one time only offering.

I was lucky to be able to get my 2 First Run Arc LSes: 1 white Second, and one of the last Cyan Firsts. Arc has a very hard time keeping anything in stock. I wonder why??

Old Man Murphy reared his ugly head and invoked his Third Law: If anything at all can go wrong, it Will.

I have no interest in an LS3, though I do have interest in 1 or 2 LSH-Ps.

Wait! I may be wrong but I sense an insult has been made and directed at gransee. I have been away a bit and missed this.

Methinks I need to seek this issue and put in some posts in gransee's defence. Give me a minute while I loose Anduril in it's Sheath.

ahhh....the flame of the west, the sword that was broken, narsil reforged!

altough out of any weapon, i think i would like to own angrist the most.

"The most valuable things in life are not measured in monetary terms. The really important things are not houses and lands, stocks and bonds, automobiles and real estate [Surefire A2's and Arc LS3's], but friendships, trust, confidence, empathy, mercy, love and faith."

--Bertrand Russell V. Delong

I added the lights to the quote, and OK, this may a trifle hackneyed, but I think it offers some perspective. My guess is that the latter things in the quote (i.e., the most valuable things in life) were the basis for forming the CPF. Surely, interest in flashlights is the ostensible reason for participating here, but only within the context of a friendly and empathetic gathering of individuals.

The boorish behavior displayed in various Arc LS3 threads was sobering for me, although it appears that some members are sincerely apologetic. That's a positive sign.

I briefly considered the possibility of leaving the CPF, but I've decided to stick around at least temporarily. I'll just be a little sadder with the knowledge that flashaholics are merely a reflection of society and not a better, smarter, or more decent group as we sometimes assert.
I hope everyone will be vigilant in monitoring themselves in future posts and prove me wrong.

Sorry for the preachiness.

Humbly,

Steve

edited

well said steve!!!

Hey,

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the LS3 thread. I guess I'll have to read up on that and see what's up. I'm generally more incandescent than LED, but that's slowly changing.

It's sad to hear that some people have misbehaved. Generally, CPF is extremely friendly. Please don't take that incident as indicative of CPF members general behavior.

The only time I've seen CPFers (myself included) get rabid is around a particular shyster who come here talking trash and being generally foul.

Hope you stick around and have a better experience!

I see it as the online version of the take an additional 50% off sale prices. For one hour only. And for one hour there's a mad rush. Men run and hide. Woman engage in combat shopping too horrifying for men to bear. Products grabbed out of someone elses arms. A swift upper-cut and a quick swipe. A knee to the shin. Obscenities hurled. If looks could kill... Or was this more like the Cabbage Patch Doll craze?

Fortunately no one was arrested.

We must all keep the faith.

The CPF`ers are a good group of eclectic souls.... happily preoccupied with their whims and fancies in the world of beautiful and bright lights.... and with only rare exceptions always playing extremely well in the sandbox together.

Our foibles notwithstanding, it really doesn`t get much better than this!

Anyone ever hear of a LOTTERY?
I wasn't in line, I still don't even have a LS2, but it seems it could have been handled better.....