Help from Legal Experts

Ok, I've got myself into a jam and don't know what I can do. Yes, I'm an idot and fell victim to that scam from Nigeria back in 2003. I had a 1949 pontiac that I was selling on line for $750. I was contacted by this guy from Nigeria who wanted to buy my car. I was thinking this was just some rich guy and that car would be worth lost of money over there. He sent me a cashiers check for somewhere around $4000. I was to cash the money order at my bank, take $750 for myself and send the rest to the shiping company via money order. I'm gullible and honest so thats what I did. Went to my bank (US Bank), cashed the cashiers check, took $750 and send the rest via money order. Never heard back from them again and the bank notified me that the cashiers check was fraudulent. So I went down to the local FBI office to file a complaint. They took my info, and had me fill out an on line FBI internet fraud complaint which I did. The bank said I owed them $4000 and I figured since it wasn't my fault, I didn't have to do anything about it. How dumb was that. Now my credit sucks and I can't afford to pay it. I just got a letter from a collection agency saying that I had to pay it otherwise they are going to take me to court or garnish my wages. I'm living pay check to pay check right now, wife is in college and we have no extra money to pay for this. I have to freaking idea what to do and my wife is going to kill me tonight when she finds out. Since I never really did anything else about this, am I really supposed to pay or is there any agency or anything that can help? I called the collection place today to talk to them and they want $600 a month or they'll sue and garnish my pay. I couldn't even afford $100 a month now. Can they really do this to me even though it wasn't my fault. The way I see it, the bank should have cleared the check before giving me the money. Why should I have to pay for something I didn't do? Anyways, do any of you know anything that I can do? Thanks, wow, do I feel like crap right now

I'm not a lawyer but I don't see how this is anyone fault but your own. The bank didn't make the mistake; you did by not waiting for the funds to clear. I hate to hear about this and I know it completely sucks. I do hope you find away out of it but I don't think you will.

First, I am very sorry you got hosed on this...

Next, the bank will go back to the last person they can find and get the money from that person--you in this case. I am not sure that there is any way you can get out of owing the $4,000 (you gave them a check and you got $4,000). Checks can take 6 weeks or more to "officially" clear. You, as the person who deposited the money, are the one they will hold responsible. It is up to you to "sue" the person who gave you the bad check.

Lastly, I believe you can tell the collection agency to stop contacting you or your work (and friends and family).

Nolo Press:

1. Collection agencies have been calling me all hours of the day and night. How can I get them to stop contacting me?

It's against the law for a bill collector who works for a collection agency (as opposed to working in the collections department of the creditor itself) to call you before 8 am or after 9 pm. The law, the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA), also bars collectors from calling you at work, harassing you, using abusive language, making false or misleading statements, adding unauthorized charges and many other practices. Under the FDCPA, you have the right to demand that the collection agency stop contacting you, except to tell you that collection efforts have ended or that the creditor or collection agency will sue you. You must put your request in writing.

4. A bill collector insisted that I wire the money I owe through Western Union. Am I required to do so?

No, and it could add a lot to your debt if you did. Many collectors, especially when a debt is more than 90-days past due, will suggest several "urgency payment" options, including:

• Sending money by express or overnight mail-this will add at least $10 to your bill; a first class stamp is fine.
• Wiring money through Western Union's Quick Collect or American Express' Moneygram. Another $10 waste.
• Putting your payment on a credit card not at its maximum. You'll never get out of debt if you do this.

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Usually, the collection agency (as opposed to the collection department in a bank or store) simply "buys" the debt ($0.xx on the dollar) wholesale and attempts to get you to pay... If you do pay, they make money, if you don't, they have the choice to sue or--they can try to sell the debt again (and again).

I am, again, very sorry, but you do "legally" owe the money and you will either have to try and negotiate (with the collection agency--if it is no longer the bank) or wait to be sued and work out terms with the court (if they sue). If you have a police report to document any of this, it may help (with court).

I don't think that there are really many other options. You should work through your state's website and see if there is anything specific in state law for your situation.

-Bill (not a lawyer).

I know before, when I've gotten a check, I had to wait until the bank verified it because they are the "experts" and should be knowledgable in identifying fraudulent checks, thats their job. That was with another bank, thought all were the same. How am I able to identify a fraudulent check? My mother in law just gave me the idea of offering them about half that and tell them otherwise, tell them that I'm going to file backruptcy. I guess these places make money on this stuff and try to get as much as possible. I think I'm going to call the local FBI office tommorrow and see what they can do for me. Yeah, I admit, that was pretty dumb of me to fall for that but the bank should be responsible for making sure the check was good. Maybe there is no way out.

Aaron1100us said:

Why should I have to pay for something I didn't do?

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You guys type fast.

Man, this really sucks. Can you discuss an alternative paying plan with the bank (you know, something you can actually pay) or something like that? I'm not familiar with how that would be done, but I'm sure they'd prefer to get $50/month from you than getting nothing at all.

I wish you the very best.

Ok, thanks, I just saw that last post after I was typing. I guess it does sound like my fault. I could have them stop calling but I'm hoping to get this worked out because I really don't want to be sued, that kinda scares me.

I guy I talked to said that I owed so much, get can't take anything less than $600 a month, otherwise I'd be paying for a long time and they want their money now. I'm even paying on some other things through Consumer Credit of Des Moines and thats $250 a month for other things that I owe. I told this guy that I could have Consumer Credit pay them too like what I'm doing with other places and he said they wouldn't work with a debt consolidation place.

From American Banking Association Check Fraud Site:

Let's say you post an ad for your car on an online auction Web site for $3,000. A foreign buyer bids on the car for the full asking price. When payment is arranged the buyer says there is someone in the United States who owes him money. The person who owes the buyer money offers to send you a cashier's check for $5,000 and asks that you wire back the difference to the buyer. You agree because they offer you a small commission for brokering the deal. You receive the cashier's check, deposit it, and because cashier's checks are mistakenly thought to be as good as cash, wire the leftover sum to the buyer. Ten days later your bank informs you that the cashier's check was fraudulent and that you're responsible for any money you've drawn against it. Unfortunately, you've lost your money and merchandise to a scam.
...

If It Sounds Too Good To Be True, It Is

How To Protect Yourself Against Cashier's Check Fraud
from the ABA Education Foundation Online auction sites are a popular way to buy and sell collectibles, jewelry, even cars; however, internet auction transactions are not always safe. A new fraud, the cashier's check or "advance fee" fraud has become more prevalent as online auction sites and classified ads have gained popularity. In many cases, large ticket items lure this type of fraud artist to a victim.

The typical fraud scenario is somewhat confusing, which is probably one of the reasons why the fraud artist is successful.

Let's say you post an ad for your car on an online auction Web site for $3,000. A foreign buyer bids on the car for the full asking price. When payment is arranged the buyer says there is someone in the United States who owes him money. The person who owes the buyer money offers to send you a cashier's check for $5,000 and asks that you wire back the difference to the buyer. You agree because they offer you a small commission for brokering the deal. You receive the cashier's check, deposit it, and because cashier's checks are mistakenly thought to be as good as cash, wire the leftover sum to the buyer. Ten days later your bank informs you that the cashier's check was fraudulent and that you're responsible for any money you've drawn against it. Unfortunately, you've lost your money and merchandise to a scam.

There are variations on the scheme as well. A seller could just as easily attempt to scam you, and not all scammers are from outside the U.S. Cashier's Check fraud is growing as auction and classifieds Web sites become more popular.

Online auction fraud registers the largest number of complaints to the FTC's Consumer Sentinel database. But don't give up your addiction to online auctioning yet. If you safeguard your identity, take your time transferring funds, and keep alert for possible scams, your risk of becoming a victim will be going, going, gone.

Consumer Tips

The American Bankers Association offers the following tips to protect consumers from cashier's check and "advance fee" fraud schemes:

• Use caution when dealing with foreign buyers and sellers.
• Beware if the buyer or seller asks you to send money quickly. Banks often take 10 days or more to determine if a cashier's check is counterfeit. Do not ship the goods or spend any of the funds sent to you until 10 days to two weeks after you deposit the cashier's check.
• Insist on a cashier's check drawn on a local bank, or a bank that has a local branch. Insist on a cashier's check for the exact amount.
• Check the FDIC's Institution Directory to make sure the bank is legitimate.
• These fraud artists tend to target vulnerable people, senior citizens and young adults. Alert any family members who may be at risk.
• No legitimate company will offer to pay you by arranging to send you a check and asking you to wire some of the money back. If that's the pitch, it's a scam.
• Become familiar with any auction site you visit online. Find out what protections the auction site offers buyers and sellers. Don't assume the rules are standard for all auction sites.
• Find out as much as you can about the other party you're dealing with on an online auction site. Be wary of those who try to lure you away from the Web site with promises of a better deal.
• Save all transaction information.
• Protect your privacy. Never provide your Social Security number, driver's license number, credit card number or bank account information.
• Never agree to travel to meet your buyer or seller.

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You may have an "out" if the check took 2 months to clear--but I have not found anything that lists a hard limit (11 days is given--but other places recommend at waiting at least 3 weeks).

You have been scamed... what to do next:

If you have become a victim to a counterfeit cashier's check scam, please report it to the following:

• your local police
• your local Secret Service and fill out the online form
• The Attorney General's Office
• The Comptroller of the Currency
• The Internet Fraud Complaint Center
• Interpol
• U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission
• Federal Trade Commission
• FDIC
• If your money was wired Western Union, call
  
  1-800-325-6000 Fraud Department
• If you feel your bank did not handle the matter correctly, contact the Better Business Bureau
• contact the website that you had your item for sale on and ask that they post a warning to all of their customers
• contact the mail server that they scammer used, such as Yahoo!, and report that the email account is being used for criminal activity.

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Other Things To Do:[/font]

• Close any other accounts that you have at that bank so they cannot freeze those accounts
• Turn off any direct deposits you have going into that account
• Turn off any automatic payments or withdrawals you have coming out of that account
• Open an account at another bank

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In the end, you cannot identify a good/bad check... Only the bank can do that (and, if it was written fraudently on a good account, it could take several weeks plus a 1 month billing cycle for the account owner that was also a victim to alert the bank and get their money back--that is why I said to wait, at least, 6 weeks before assuming the money is good).

-Bill

Aaron1100us said:

he said they wouldn't work with a debt consolidation place.

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...this is just a wild guess, but I'd say they're trying to scare you into paying them as much as possible, as soon as possible (that's what everyone wants, right?). Talk to your debt consolidation people and ask them directly.

Good luck!

There's an info page about the so-called 419 (i.e. Nigerian) scam here: http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/

See also this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_fee_fraud

You might want to read

http://www.scamorama.com/

Good luck!

AlexGT

Thanks for all the help I sure did learn a big lesson from this. I'll call the debt consolidation place tommorrow to see what they say. In the beginning, all I did was I went down to the FBI office and talked to an Agent in person, then filled out the form on line. I still have that information that I got back saved incase I need it. Its kinda sounding like I'm going to have to pay for something, now I need to figure out if I can get the amount reduced or give them smaller payments. I think I'll contact the debt consolidation place first, and if that doesn't work, I might try something else. I suppose I should have waited, didn't know it was my responsibility to do so, thought it was the bank's to determine such a thing. Lesson learned. Any more thoughts? Thanks.

Its crazy, I get other variations of this scam in my e-mail everyday. Allways has to do with Nigeria or the UK. This really has me depressed, thinking how this is going to affect my family and I. My wife is going to kill me, I was suppose to buy her a used mini van (her car is trashed) from a guy at work with the tax money we are getting back and she was really looking forward to that. Now, I have to tell her that we might be spending all of that money on something STUPID that I did. She knows about this whole thing and was with me when it happened, but that was 3 and a half years ago. Is it ever possible to get ahead in life? Sometimes I wonder, and then think, no, thats not possible. Things usually don't go so well for us.

I understand your feelings... My Mom lost $20,000 to scammers in Canada (there is no enforcible law that prevents a person from sending money to somebody else). She was even stopped once (the first time) from sending the money via Western Union (you have won the Canadian lottery, and I am your long lost 23rd cousin and all I need is to pay the taxes--later on they "became" US government agents in Canada who needed her money to trap the thieves)...

Trust me, you will never get the money back, and hardly anyone cares (outside of your friends and CPF) enough to do anything about it (either for you, or to stop this from happening again to others).

In the end, you have to be vigilant forever more. Shred any piece of paper/junk mail/invoices/tax info/credit card applications/etc. that has your name, address and/or other pieces of information.

Get a PO Box and send all of your mail to the PO box.

Get caller ID and never give any information to anyone who calls you on the phone.

If you have elderly parents/relatives, do the same for them (have their mail sent to your PO Box). Also get call blocking (if there is no Caller ID, call does not go through).

Do not trust/take checks from anyone you don't know that are for more money than you can afford to lose (unless you can keep the money/goods for six+ weeks). Get them to give you cash (they can get it from their bank).

Avoid giving your checks to somebody you don't know (they can make checks on a computer with the numbers/signature from your personal check). Give cash or PO Money Order (or if they will accept a cashier's check from you ).

Use Credit Cards (not Visa/Master Card Debit cards) for every purchase you can (much better fraud protection). Make sure that you use your credit card like a check (you have money in the bank to pay off the bill at the end of the month).

I know that many people send money/goods between countries here on CPF--but you have to be very careful if there is anything strange in the transaction ("cash-back", etc.).

-Bill

Thanks for the advice. Hope to never have anything like this happen again. And I thank all of you for your help and being so nice, you are all great people and I hope nothing like this ever happens to any of you.