IYHO, Why?

Surefire this, Streamlight that, fenix, blah, blah... Are Maglites really that far down on the food (light) chain? I like my Mag-Lites. What gives?

Standard Mags are:

1. DIM
2. Have an ugly beam
3. Continuously lowering light level as the battery runs down

Having a standard Mag just doesn't cut it for me.. Mags do make great bodies, which is why I do have a few Mag mods...

My favourite Magmod, is still my Tri-X, which is a 3x X-bin (rated at 192.0 to 249.6 lumens EACH) Mag mod using a high voltage nFlex driver, with 5 levels and a regulated output up to 1A. Estimated runtime at Max is about 1.5 hours..

GregW, that is a beaut! I know that Mags are dim, but my Mag Led upgrade made a good difference. I just like the fact that I can beat someone down with it. LOL. What do you mean by "ugly beam?"

If you do some research on the MagLED upgrade... you'll find that the heatsinking is very poor. As the junction temp rises due to the poor heatsinking, the output will decrease (to 50% in approx 5min, depending on ambient temp). Also, for such a large light, it doesn't put out that much light.

Mag as a company is often frowned upon due to it's business practices. IIRC, they have sued quite a bit more than they have innovated. They were also quite late to the LED game. When they did finally enter the LED market, they came out w/ a poor design (see heatsinking above).

Here's a technical review of the MagLED:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=119665&highlight=magled

"Ugly Beam" most likely refers to the fact that no matter how you focus it (especially the incandecent bulbs), the beam is full of artifacts and dark spots or holes. Beamshots of Mag-lites compared to Surefires (or almost any other light with a textured reflector) drive this point home. Besides doubling as an alumminum pipe to serve violence on some bad guy, Mag-lites function best as host bodies for modding, as gregw was so kind enough to show us with pics of his amazing, one-of-a-kind creation . (Thank You so much for that!)

Mag-lites aren't the worst lights out there, but they're far, far from being the considered top of the line or the best. If you were to compare ALL the flashlights available, Mag-Lites would probably rank average or mediocre overall.
For the average person Mag-lites would probably serve almost all of their lighting needs, especially the 3D and 4D Mag LEDs with their long runtime.

I'd have to agree with what's been said in this thread. However, I do believe there is one notable exception. I believe the M*gCh*rg*r is a very good light.

Rather interesting information... I am assuming I have yet to see the really good stuff then. I guess for me beatability is something that I high on my list...for now. I am sure when the weather clears up a bit up in the mountains, I will need more compact, brighter, and lighter lights.

RdlyLite, you'll probably get the whole gamut of Mag-haters and Mag-lovers showing up shortly.

IMO, it really depends on what you want out of a light, or what you expect to do from it, or what the task at hand demands from your lighting tool. For most people, a minimag will do just fine, and I have no problem with that. That was *the* light I EDC'ed for 10 years or so. Sure, I had a Petzl headlamp for when I had to be outdoors, but even so my minimag always tagged along. I thought my minimag was the absolute greatest light ever, and that Maglite made the best lights. Period. I even lugged a 4D Mag every night, for 3 years.

My first wake up call came from a friend who got his hands on a Pelican. I wasn't "into lights" back when, but I think it was a Saberlight or something like that. OMG! I could not believe how much brighter, smoother, and whiter the beam of his light was! And all this in about half the size of my 4D Mag and a fraction of the weight. Still, I remained true to my preference for Mag. Then, on a trip to South Africa I happened to be sitting next to a game hunter. We started talking about stuff, and the topic of lights came up. He showed me his e2e... I had never heard about SureFire before, and I could not believe how much light could come out of such a small package. Still, the price tag was outreageous (or so I thought back then).

Fast forward a few years and I found CPF. I tried a Pelican M6, and then a couple of LED lights, and... things completely changed for me. There really are lights "out there" that provide a better set of features and quality output than Maglite. Sure, some may cost more, but I've decided the added cost (if it exists) is a worthwhile investment.

I suspect you'll try a couple of lights in your stint here on CPF. Compare those to your Maglites, and decide whether their features place them higher up the food chain (or not), as you put it. It really is up to you to decide.

For now, I like big lights that can deliver the smack down. Hehe. And give me a decent amount of focus-able light to boot. But perhaps blinding brightness is better, eh?

fnmag: Ah yes, how could I forget the Mag-Charger. Awesome output and throw, and its the only Mag that's Type III anodized, nice. But the deal breaker for me is that recharge time; 16 hours of charging time for 1 hour of light?!?! Um, no thanks. A rapid charger would be nice, something that tops of the Mag-Charger in under 5 or 6 hours would be great.

RdlyLite: So "beatability" is important to you huh? I would think you have a 6D Mag-Lite then? If so, this would be a great purchase for you (if you don't already have it that is):
http://store.preparedness.com/magbathan.html

Or maybe an extendable baton with one of these at the end:
http://www.camping-gear-outlet.com/camping-gear-10615.html?src=froogle&src1=cgo&src2=gbase&utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=Product%2BSearch%2BEngine

RdlyLite said:

For now, I like big lights that can deliver the smack down. ... But perhaps blinding brightness is better, eh?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure how many times I've heard those two lines. Personally, I don't fully buy either of them, and I find myself saying this over and over again:

1. Smackability: a co-worker of my wife was almost beaten to death with his own Maglite when he went over to the neighbors to try to quiet down their party. Myth Busters say: BUSTED.

2. Blinding brightness: Maybe, but only under certain circumstances. And, if you think just flashing the light into a bad guy's eyes will "do the trick", you might be in for an unpleasant surprise. Myth Busters say: PLAUSIBLE.


Bottomline, IMO, anything can be used a defensive tool. What's important is that you constantly train to use whatever you decide you're going to carry, and prepare mentally and physically to carry out your chosen reaction.


OK, off the Mall Ninja Shrine SoapBox now.

GreenLed- I know and understand exactly what you are saying. Here is the scenario I have run through my mind numerous times… If at any time during one of my nightly walks some aggressor tries their luck with me, I suspect two things are going to happen. Fight or flight. Fight or fend off the person with my beatlight and then proceed to run unless I happened to neutralize them with the first crucial seconds. For that I would wait until I get proper help. Flight if I see ample opportunity to make a run for it. If the aggressor is a motivated dog or other large animal, Flight won't help me much on that one unless I can reach higher ground quick like. So for that one, it will be Fight. And I will be darned if the said animal wants to chew on my leg, arm, buttocks, etc. I will feed it the Mag stick. He/she can chew on that and then I run. And I do not consider myself paranoid but I like to be as prepared as possible. If I was extremely paranoid, I would probably just barricade myself in my place or leave my place with Pepper Spray, concealed gun, and the like.



I sure hope I make sense.

1. Smackability: a co-worker of my wife was almost beaten to death with his own Maglite when he went over to the neighbors to try to quiet down their party. Myth Busters say: Busted


Just because the wrong guy got almost beaten to death doesn't mean the Mag light doesn't have 'Smackability', in fact, it proves just the opposite. The guy shouldn't have been stupid enough to let someone take away his light. Same thing goes for guns and knives.

As far as being paranoid and carrying firearms or pepper spray goes: That does't mean you are paranoid, just prepared. A prepared person should always have a gun, a knife, and a flashlight. They are three tools that can carry a person through most situations.

I think that the reason that most of the general public thinks that Maglights are the best is because Maglight tells them that they are the best. Just like everyone thinks that Bose speakers are the best, and CNN is the best news network. All three of these products are pretty much average, but they are mainstream, so most people don't question what they are told about them. Most people aren't aware of the "specialty items" that exist in any category. Which is where Surefire flashlights, Definitive Technology and Theil speakers, and MSNBC and FOX Newschannel fall in the spectrum of their respective categories. You have to go looking for them.

RdlyLite said:

I sure hope I make sense.

Click to expand...

[font=&quot]Perhaps, without offending, may I give you some advice from a LEO point of view?



If I read your sig right, I take away the thought that you are preparing to use your light as a weapon. This is all fine and good, except that in areas like CA, intent becomes an issue. Carrying a light to use as a weapon, while conveying an attitude of aggression, can put you in the perceived position of attempting to invite an altercation. To put it a bit simpler, one does not carry a baseball bat into a bad neighborhood, get into a confrontation, use the bat, and then profess to have no premeditation.



If I may, I would suggest you take a self-defense class where they can teach you to use very simple techniques to stun or temporarily incapacitate an attacker so you may remove yourself from the situation. The problem here is that your "beatstick" becomes a liability as far as your own movement. I suppose you could always have your attacker hold your light while you apply enough force to enable you to remove yourself from the vicinity. These classes will also teach you how to neutralize a dog.



As a rule, you are allowed to use one step higher force than that which is being used on you. IE; It's considered bad form to shoot an unarmed shoplifter. Never forget that a situation that seems cut-and-dried when you are in it, may become a legal quagmire after the Monday-morning lawyers get their hands on it. To me, a nice, bright light that can temporarily blind or disorient an attacker is much more useful than a "beatstick" that could easily be taken and used against me.



No offense meant. Just a bit of advice from someone that's "Been there, done that".[/font]

They are great for the money. I like them for around the house as work lights, and chores.

For my protection, I rely on Surefire's.

Best,

RL

I think the focusability of the Mag-Lite is a red herring. The light distribution when out of focus is so ugly that I never used it that way. How many really do?

If you need the Mag form factor, then you can make it a lot better with one of the many incandescent or LED mods people whip up on this forum. Then, you too can sneer at a plain old Mag-Lite.

I have to think that unusually bright light can be useful defensively even if it doesn't blind or disorient. Its liable to make a potential mugger think he has stumbled upon someone that is not a civilian "marshmallow". If it makes them think twice, you've got that going for you. Many on this forum have remarked how they've been mistaken for a LEO just because they are shining a very bright light about.

I've a couple of 2D Mags and a couple 2AA MiniMags. I like them. Nice, well-built, solid construction, but I haven't decided whether I'm going to try to upgrade and use them, or consign them to indefinite storage. As flashlights go, they just aren't very good these days, sad to say. None of the commercial mods I've seen strike me as all that effective and the custom mods I've seen, while many of them are terrific, don't seemto me cost-effective.

As far as carrying a large, heavy, 2-or3D-Cell light for its "smack-down" capabilities: Personally, I have no fantasies about getting into such a situation. When I do feel inclined to carry something for self defense, it's loaded with .40 S&W semi-jacketed hollow-points, not D-Cell batteries .

Lightfantastic said:

[font=&quot]If I read your sig right, I take away the thought that you are preparing to use your light as a weapon.[/font]

Click to expand...

Actually, his sig conveys the impression he's looking forward to using his flashlight as a weapon.

Lightfantastic said:

[font=&quot]This is all fine and good, except that in areas like CA, intent becomes an issue. Carrying a light to use as a weapon, while conveying an attitude of aggression, can put you in the perceived position of attempting to invite an altercation.[/font]

Click to expand...

Particularly if they tied to you the use of a sig like "Dishing out a beat-down with your light should light up anyone's night.", I would think. In these days of cyber-sleuthing, not totally out of the question.

mags are good for two things,
blunt weapon
mod host

besides that, the maglite's design has not been changed even though other competitions have designed lights that can outrival both maglite's proformance and price.

Sometimes I think we focus too much on perpect beams and concentric rings aside from the "artifacts and holes" that usually dont appear to be a problem in practical [non-white-wall-hunting] uses, but maglites seriorsly need to recreate their reflector systems...

Im tolerant to the quality, I love it actually, but the beam is :sick2: no matter how you focus it

I have always liked Maglites, but the truth is that they haven't done a lot of innovation since the 80s and their wonderful products gradually got left behind. They lost the police market years ago to companies like Streamlight, who kept innovating after Mag stopped.

My personal view is that Mag stayed with primary C/D/AA cells too long and that's what really hurt them. The 6 cell lights were pretty bright, and my guess is that's where Mag got their reputation, but you just can't suck enough current out of 2 or 3 regular D-cells to get decent brightness without either overdriving the bulb (short life) or going to LED. I own a bunch of Mags, but I had gradually stopped using them because they just seemed to be dim and yellow all the time. Going to rechargeables or lithiums would have solved the problem, and that's what all of Mag's competitors did.

The MagLED is critical for Mag, more so IMO than even the folks at Mag recognize. Cheap alkalines can deliver a lot of energy if the current draw is low, but even at 1A you are getting a lot less capacity from the cell than you could at a lower current. I'm not claiming the lack of heatsinking on the MagLED was "brilliant", but the result is really good for Mag. Current draw seems to stabilize around .4A on a 2 cell and even lower on a 3 or 4 cell, which is getting into the territory where cheap alkalines can deliver some decent capacity. A stock Mag 2D incandescent is not a great light to use IMO, but the 2D MagLED is quite satisfying and I'll probably move the module to a 2C and be just as happy with that.

Mag needs to drop the BS marketing and product materials and start promoting their products properly again. I can read the packaging on MagLED lights a dozen times and not get the important message -- hey folks, the 2D MagLED is TWICE AS BRIGHT as the regular 2D Mag and runs FIVE TIMES AS LONG, and THE BEAM IS REALLY GOOD at least focused to a tight spot.

Right now Mag just seems to be dropping the products that don't sell, rather than figuring out why they don't sell and fixing them. At this rate in a couple of years they'll be down to 2D and 3D MagLEDs and maybe some MiniMags if the length doesn't turn people off.

What Mag needs to do IMO :

1. Clear messaging on the MagLEDs, make it clear that this is a HUGE improvement over the incandescents and be specific about how & why. Forget the Robb Report blurb, you sell in Home Depot.

2. Get some mileage out of the Magcharger -- it's a GREAT light but too hard to find and comes with more stuff than most people need. It's been around for over 20 years, which my SF-wielding friends find hard to believe. Even if Mag doesn't sell tons of MCs the public needs to think "Magcharger performance" when they think about Maglites, not "sickly yellow beam but makes a good club"

3. Do a bit of R&D for a change. Either frost the bulbs (iffy in volume) or texture the back half of the reflectors to fix the beam up a bit. The reflectors are moulded plastic so the impact on production cost should be negligible.

4. Do something with lithium cells if only to level the playing field. I don't know if Mag can get back into the police & military business now but at minimum they should commercialize the 2C-to-3x123 mod with a 6 cell xenon bulb.

5. Make sure the big lights are worth buying. The 4, 5 and 6 cells should ship with MagnumStar bulbs otherwise they aren't even worth carrying IMO. The 4 cell is in an awkward position -- a bit too small to get good light out of primary alkalines, but a bit too big to be worth pushing as a LED product unless 50 hour runtime is important.