A2 Killer

i've just bought an A2 which i think is great. i use it as an edc, camping and night hikes. having looked at the Kroma, is the A2 dead? does the A2 offer anything that the kroma can't do better? what do people think? should i have bought a Kroma?
Golden Creature
OMG!!! Like don't touch the torch man!

do a search, plenty of blood has been spilled over this subject.

For some of us that like the outdoors, incandescents are still preferable over LEDs, and the A2 is a bit smaller and more pocketable.

The Kroma approximately equals the performance of the A2, but in a bigger package.

The choice between the two revolves around personal preference issues, like size, incan vs LED beam, the desire for more colors, price, etc. One light does not stomp the other.

The thing that will kill the A2, and the other SureFire incans, is more powerful and efficient LEDs.

Scott

i think you made the right choice in getting the A2. i absolutly love mine and would NEVER give it up. now you need John Willis to make you a custom holster for it and you will love it for the rest of your life.

cheers

when you need to shine through fog, you need an A2

yeah the incan totally blows away the high white of the KROMA i edc'd a few months back before I got my A2's and started to hate thing.The low beams are nice and everything but I tended to only use one.Having edc'd them both I think I'll stick with the A2 plus . . . .if I need different colors i can always carry two A2's like i do nowadays . . .perfect way to carry a spare bulb and 123A's.

No. The Kroma is nice, but if you do not need the additional colors, then the added bulk is not really worth it. Nor is the higher price tag.

The A2 offers great spill on low, something that the Kroma can only do with the red or blue LEDs, and on white setting, the beam is too tight to be compared with the A2 low.

I have never liked the A2 because its incan beam is too feeble, it doesn't use rechargeables, the runtime is short and the quality of the LED beam is often poor. I expect the new-technololgy LEDs will further weaken the case for the A2. My U2 with an 18650 is brighter than the A2 I had by quite a bit (more than enough to compensate for the cooler beam temperature), and it runs longer. With yet brighter LEDs hitting the market and using less power, the A2 is going to be pressed to remain relevant. If you need more light than the updated U2, then you're going to want a bigger and brighter incan than the A2 anyway. How about a Mag 3C running an 1185 with rechargeable lithium C cells for one hour?

Some of us still love our incans, though. I don't see much compelling reason to replace what already works well with what works with more complexity. For that reason, the A2 is still my EDC, and in my coat pocket is a G2z.




...though I admit to having paid quite a bit of money for a Seoul-based light. Great warm tint, too.

carrot said:

I don't see much compelling reason to replace what already works well with what works with more complexity. . . .

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I think that's where it is. (I don't fully agree about the complexity -- some of us like having more complexity, i.e., colors.)

Right now it comes down to personal preference between the A2 and K2.

But soon, it will not.

If you has something the same size as the A2 with the same user interface and the same (or better) beam quality, would you take a 20/200 lumen LED version that ran for 2 hours on high? Something with white color, not blue or yellow? This will happen sooner or later. At that point, even if a 200-lumen LED beam is passed over in favor of a 50-lumen incan beam by some, I think we will see the end of the mighty A2's production.

And, the K2 Kroma will pass into obsolescence as well (or more likely will follow an L1-esque evolution).

Scott

right now if had to get rid of all my lights but one, the A2 is the one i would keep. it is my favorite.

leukos said:

For some of us that like the outdoors, incandescents are still preferable over LEDs, and the A2 is a bit smaller and more pocketable.

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I agree. Leukos and Boosterboy are right: Especially in misty or foggy conditions, incans are better. My 50Lumen A2 out throws my 60 to 80 Lumen LEDs by far in the outdoors if there is any humidity or mist.

The oft-maligned 'yellow' is why it cuts through fog. Only those who don't know speak badly of the wide spectrum incan color. LEDs reflect way too much light back at you instead of the strong yellow-orange-red spectrum cutting through. There was a good reason all the old fog lights were amber color. The new 'fog lights' are just for looks, they are far less functional. Same with the blue tinted headlights now popular. Mor glare, less seeing.

My main concern of upgrading to Cree and SSC LED's is to make sure the tint is as warm as possible to be more useful.

Josey said:

I have never liked the A2 because its incan beam is too feeble, it doesn't use rechargeables, the runtime is short and the quality of the LED beam is often poor. I expect the new-technololgy LEDs will further weaken the case for the A2. My U2 with an 18650 is brighter than the A2 I had by quite a bit (more than enough to compensate for the cooler beam temperature), and it runs longer. With yet brighter LEDs hitting the market and using less power, the A2 is going to be pressed to remain relevant. If you need more light than the updated U2, then you're going to want a bigger and brighter incan than the A2 anyway. How about a Mag 3C running an 1185 with rechargeable lithium C cells for one hour?

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Not to stray from the subject, but I have read that the A2 will work with 2 unprotected rechargeable R123 cells. The post I read stated that it would work and that all you had to do was turn the light off as soon as it dropped out of regulation to protect the cells from overdischarging. I have an A2 but have never tried this. Can anyone confirm that this will or wont work???

Paul

:candle:

Blindasabat said:

I agree. Leukos and Boosterboy are right: Especially in misty or foggy conditions, incans are better. My 50Lumen A2 out throws my 60 to 80 Lumen LEDs by far in the outdoors if there is any humidity or mist.

The oft-maligned 'yellow' is why it cuts through fog. Only those who don't know speak badly of the wide spectrum incan color. LEDs reflect way too much light back at you instead of the strong yellow-orange-red spectrum cutting through. There was a good reason all the old fog lights were amber color. The new 'fog lights' are just for looks, they are far less functional. Same with the blue tinted headlights now popular. Mor glare, less seeing.

My main concern of upgrading to Cree and SSC LED's is to make sure the tint is as warm as possible to be more useful.

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Agree, in foggy conditions it is less blinding and you can see more with an incan.
It is not a question of which flashlight has more lumens. It is about which beam let you see more. Even if LED becomes more efficient and brighter, it still would not replace an incan beam.

For almost double the price you lose the bure fullspectrum fog cutting abilities of the Incandescent light, the A2 is great and simple, the kroma has the U2 selector ring and is larger, they are sperated lights and one will never outdo the other.

I have both, and at risk of getting flamed, I choose the KROMA over the A2. :rock:

For my needs, it fits the bill. It has 2 levels of three different colors of light giving you a broader range of usefulness. It is HA black, while not quite as tough as Ha Nat, I prefer black. Utilizing a U2 battery tube that holds a 18650, it can have runtimes way longer than the A2. When it comes to throw, it would be close. My KROMA is way brighter than 50 lumens, brighter than my A2 also. The red/blue led ring of the KROMA provides a much more useful beam than the A2's led ring. Also, the KROMA just looks cooler!

Dont get me wrong, I have three A2's (Red one from PK himself, white, and a UV A2) they are great lights, but they dont touch the KROMA in my book. :shrug:

Greetings!

PoliceScannerMan said:

I have both, and at risk of getting flamed, I choose the KROMA over the A2. :rock:

For my needs, it fits the bill. It has 2 levels of three different colors of light giving you a broader range of usefulness. It is HA black, while not quite as tough as Ha Nat, I prefer black. Utilizing a U2 battery tube that holds a 18650, it can have runtimes way longer than the A2. When it comes to throw, it would be close. My KROMA is way brighter than 50 lumens, brighter than my A2 also. The red/blue led ring of the KROMA provides a much more useful beam than the A2's led ring. Also, the KROMA just looks cooler!

Dont get me wrong, I have three A2's (Red one from PK himself, white, and a UV A2) they are great lights, but they dont touch the KROMA in my book. :shrug:

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You'll get no flaming from me... I personally like both lights, but if I were only able to have one it would be the Kroma without hesitation.

I also prefer the black HA of the Kroma, the excellent battery runtimes (ESPECIALLY in the low-output modes... kicks the he77 out of the A2's runtime!). The Kroma never makes me worry about a bulb burning out... something I was always concerned about with my Red LED A2 (before I sold it).

I'll definitely own another A2, as I do feel the incandescent light is better for some things (seems to preserve natural colors better at night, and as several posters have already stated it DOES seem to do better in mist/fog). However... I think that all-around the Kroma is just a better light for me.

Best wishes,
Bawko

you cant beat the A2s compact design, lightweight, plus regulated incandescent output.

Personally since I've never used a Kroma. my vote is naturally shifted towards the A2

I've had an A2 w/red LED's for 2 years now, and I bought a Kroma last fall when they came out. Two weeks later I traded it for another A2, w/yellow-green LED's. Why? Several reasons:

1. I just could not get used to the bluish "white" high beam. LED's are fine for low level stuff and when you need a colored light, but I hate them for high beam. Give me an incan for high white any day of the week.

2. Diameter of the body and especially of the head. You just can't tuck a Kroma into your back pocket next to your wallet, like you can with the A2. I also like the "cheaper" pocket clip much better on the A2. It seems to me to do a much better job of keeping the light clipped where you put it, without moving around, than the K2 clip.

3. I personally don't need all of the color choices the Kroma offers. They are nice, but not necessary for MY uses. Yellow-green is perfect for me because MY need is for a very low-level, low beam that doesn't attract alot of attention at night, and yellow-green is almost as good as blue for enhancing contrast for reading maps etc. with as little extra light as possible. Actually, if the Kroma was smaller, and only had the low red and low blue, I might have kept it.

Some other personal opinions: Why does everyone want to use rechargeable batteries in a light designed for primaries? I understand saving money, but primaries are so much more reliable. They don't self-discharge, and you sure don't have to jack around with all this B.S. about "are the cells protected or not?" or "do I have to let them sit for some amount of time after I charge them, before I use them?" or "do I have to stop using the light when the beam starts to get dimmer?" You folks who carry a light every day need to consider that if it's important enough to carry the light every day, then isn't it just as important that it works properly? Or is it just a toy to show your friends? And who cares what color the finish is, or how "cool looking" the light is? Function over form is the rule when it comes to survival equipment. That sounds like the guy who wouldn't jump into the lake to save his drowning girlfriend because he didn't want his hair to get messed up! And lastly, I've been using Surefire and Mag incadescent lights in the law enforcement profession for the past 15 years. All of that time on the street, so the lights see alot of use, and I have only had ONE bulb failure due to dropping the light, and that was with the Mag Charger. I have had maybe two other bulb failures in Surefire lights where the bulbs basically burned out prematurely due to manufacturing defect, and were replaced by Surefire. But I was covered at work because I always carry a backup light. Incidently, I also always carry a backup gun, and a cell phone to backup my police radio, because it is the prudent thing to do with ANY important piece of equipment. ANYTHING man-made is subject to failure. I'm sure that LED lamp are no exception. What I'm trying to say here is that I'm sure LED's have a lower failure rate than incans, but incans are still VERY reliable.

Sorry to stray off the topic. The Kroma is a neat light, and if it fits YOUR mission better, then get it. They are both pretty much equal in my opinion.