Advice for a noob for driving on snow/ice

Maybe someone here can give me some honest answers and excuse me if its been posted before.

I got my license May of last year to drive and looks like working two jobs 14 hours a day, I may have to drive through some of the slippery stuff soon living in the VA area. At least I am 5 miles from job 1, job 1 is 7 miles from job 2 and job 2 is 5 miles from home. I can get to both locations by the interstate i95 or surface streets.

I have talked to a few people and I get quite a few answers.

1, be careful, drive slowly
2, stay home
3, just drift the car like in the spot where you drive sideways
4, use chains and go less than 35mph

As a new driver, I have made all the stupid mistakes and so far no accidents and learned my lesson. Ive taken on and off ramps too fast making my car or van slide. The van, the rear end slids around causing you to drift it around a corner. I just steered it back and did not touch the brake or gas. The car, it you steer too sharp it will slide forward and the steering becomes unresponside, likewise touching nothing and resteering you get the steering to work again. The van was rather easy to spin tires and used that on wet roads to make tight u turns and upshifted to brake harder without locking up the tires.

I guess just be on your toes and look ahead right?

snow tires help but speeds need to stay low. Also, you need to assume braking and turning will need to occur slow also.

Just pay attention...use your head and don't do anything nuts! lol

Braking takes 10x as long in Snow and on Ice.

Steer into skids.

Don't touch brakes if you can whilst skidding.

Drive in as high a gear as possible.

Buy a Jeep !!

Big cars don't stop any quicker than smaller cars, but give more protection to occupants if you hit something.

Take shovel, water, food, blankets, TORCHES, etc

Seperate radio / iPod.

Mobile phone.

Make sure you leave plenty of room between yourself and the vehicle in front of you, for extra stopping distance. Also keep an eye on cars in front of you, and ones in front of those cars. Watching them can give you early warning of slippery spots and give you more time to react. When you slow down, tap your brakes a time or two before you actually need to stop in order to warn the cars behind you that you are going to brake.

On wet smooth ice chains will actually reduce your traction. You'll want some good ice traction tires. I heartily recommend having all your tires siped. Not all tire stores will sipe tires they haven't just sold, so call around. Many people will recomend kitty litter for traction.........If you're just putting more weight in your trunk, that's fine. However, for spreading on the ice for traction, this is a bad idea. Most kitty litter is made of clay, and when it gets wet it turns to gray, SLIPPERY, slime. Sand is much better and keeps just fine for next year, even if it gets wet. Lastly, if you stop to put on chains after driving for awhile, don't just pull in and stop. Come to a stop, wait fifteen seconds, then move the car forward again eight or ten inches. Repeat every fifteen seconds or so for a minute and a half. This gives the tires time to cool without melting a puddle under themselves. I've seen(and helped pull out) lots of people pull in to a spot, put on chains, and have a real tough time taking off again due to their tires melting the snow and ice. Causes both a wet divot they have to pull out of, and with their chains on they have less traction on the wet ice than they did barefoot.

Good luck. :buddies:

The typical spin and lost of control accident occurs when the back of the car skids and starts moving in a lateral way, when this happens correct the problem increasing your speed slightly until the car is straight again without touching the brakes, if you touch the brake the back of the car will gain more speed relative to the front and due to the lateral movement it had the car will spin.

If the front of the car skids steer into the direction the front is going and not in the opposite direction.

My 2 cents
Luigi

Hello. Here's my input. I learned to drive in Ohio, around Youngstown, just south of Cleveland during one of the snowiest winters on record. I was stationed in upstate New York for 8 years, and literally drove through feet & feet of snow almost every winter day, and multiple 8 hour drives back & forth to Ohio. I was also stationed in Germany, and Iceland. At the time, I considered myself quite the excellent driver on snow & ice. Now I've lived in Arizona for 13 years, and I'd probably be a hazard in such conditions. Things I found useful/helpful:
Everything Big_Ed said was very good advice. You didn't mention if the vehicle you drive is FWD(Front Wheel Drive) or RWD, it makes a huge difference. I won't say one is better than the other, but your response in a skid is completely different. If skidding in a FWD car you should steer opposite the skid, if the rear of your car is sliding to the right steer to the left and stay on the gas, driving out of the skid. I mostly drove large RWD cars in these conditions, so maybe someone else can elaborate on driving tactics in a FWD car. In a RWD car you should steer into the skid, if the rear of your car is sliding to the right, steer to the right. You should be off the gas and gently but firmly pumping your brakes(unless you have ABS, then you should not pump the brakes). A good set of snow tires(not all season) is invaluable. In all those years, I never got stuck in the snow, never left the road surface. I never used nor felt the need for chains. Chains are only useful in very limited conditions, but when in those conditions, they're great. In most locales, chains are allowed very rarely, and in a few locales they are required to drive on particular stretches of road at certain times. Know your area...if chains aren't required they probably aren't needed.
A Jeep or similar 4WD can certainly be useful, especially in deep snow...but I've pulled more than one Jeep/4WD vehicle out of snow banks with my 2WD car. Driving skill, & knowing the limitations of your skills & of your vehicle, is more important than having a 4WD. Every action/maneuver you perform on ice/snow should be subtle & gentle, not ham-handed or abrupt. For instance, when pulling away on a slippery surface or while driving up a slick hill, use the accelerator gently, don't floor it. If your wheels begin to spin, you need to back off the accelerator until the wheels can regain traction, don't give it more gas. The only reason I'd ever had trouble driving up hills was because of other drivers whose response to spinning wheels was to give it more gas. All this does is make the wheels spin faster, and polish the ice to an even slippier state. Even after coming to a complete stop on a hill, I usually could pass these people who'd mash the pedal down, by gingerly applying gas and trundling past them at about 2 MPH.
Stopping on slippery surfaces is much the same...slow down early, pump the brakes(unless ABS). Depending on conditions and your vehicle you may wish to downshift, it can slow you with less chance of sliding. Just don't do it to such a degree that you damage your transmission.
Keep your tires in good shape, your battery strong (have jumper cables) keep warm clothes/blankets & food/water in your car. If your vehicle is rear-light(like a PU) be sure to put a little weight in the rear...just make sure it's not so much weight too far to the rear that it lightens your front end and makes steering harder.Also a shovel, salt/sand/, road flares, a tow chain/strap...oh yeah, and a flashlight or 3. Also, even if you're just driving 5 minutes to the mall...take a warm jacket & hat, decent shoes, and a good pair of gloves. I can't tell you how many times I've observed people changing a tire or trudging along the road after getting stuck or breaking down, only wearing light clothing w/ no coat/hat/gloves. Always drive slower/increase following distance, and anticipate stops.
Good luck.
Tim

I've also seen a lot of people have their back end scoot sideways, and they steer away from that, trying to keep the vehicle where they want it to go. Instant spin. You have to steer the same direction that the back end is going.

This may sound crazy, but you might get yourself a cheap RC car, $30 or so. Take the body off so it's lighter, then drive it on linoleum. It'll slip and slide all over the place, and help you learn the basics in an environment where a crash is no biggy.

Edit: These comments were made knowing the original poster drives a RWD Mercedes. I also feel that even with a FWD car, steering in the direction your back wheels are going is the best option.

:buddies:

Please pay particular attention to what I said about Front Wheel Drive/Rear Wheel Drive. I've seen many people here giving conflicting advice about which way to steer in a skid. I imagine they're all correct, for the vehicle they're driving. But they haven't mentioned what that was. It is critical that, in a skid, you respond in a manner that is consistent with the type of vheicle you are driving...either RWD or FWD. I can absolutely guarantee you that steering into the skid and braking in a FWD car will make things worse...the only accident I was ever involved in happened in my 1st FWD car on a slick road in Germany. Even though I was aware of the difference, my instinct of over 15 years of driving RWD cars kicked in, and I reacted accordingly, and it was wrong. You must steer against the skid, and stay on the gas, in a FWD car. This is why I do not car for FWD cars in slippery conditions.
Also you must brake in a manner that is consistent with ABS, if your vehicle uses that system. If your vehicle has ABS, and you're pumping your brakes in a slippery condition, you may actually be making things worse, just as much as steering the wrong way based on drive wheel layout.
Best of luck,
Tim

Bullzaye said:

Everything Big_Ed said was very good advice. You didn't mention if the vehicle you drive is FWD(Front Wheel Drive) or RWD, it makes a huge difference. I won't say one is better than the other, but your response in a skid is completely different. If skidding in a FWD car you should steer opposite the skid, if the rear of your car is sliding to the right steer to the left and stay on the gas, driving out of the skid. I mostly drove large RWD cars in these conditions, so maybe someone else can elaborate on driving tactics in a FWD car. In a RWD car you should steer into the skid, if the rear of your car is sliding to the right, steer to the right. You should be off the gas and gently but firmly pumping your brakes(unless you have ABS, then you should not pump the brakes).
Tim

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I'd run this one by someone who has actually received some training by professional. You are DEAD wrong. The only real difference while driving FWD versus RWD is while pouring on the power exiting a turn. A FWD will plow to the outside (Understeer) while the RWD will spin out (Oversteer).

Bullzaye said:

You should be off the gas and gently but firmly pumping your brakes

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This is exactly what you are NOT SUPPOSED TO DO.
It transfers weight off of the tires where you need traction the most.
Ask anyone who has driven competitively or professionally.

Do what you wish. Your expert may be correct. My experience in over 20 years of driving in snow/ice tells me differently. If you wish to follow the lead of your expert, more power to you. I have every hope that it is successful for you.
Tim

Best thing I did with my Jeeps...

When it snows, find a flat area, such as an empty car park, and practise. Push the limits, gently, and get to know the response of your car.

And remember, even in a 4wd on snow, ice, rain, many other drivers will be in 2wd cars, so you will probably have to slow to their speed anyway, and always leave plenty of room to steer round them when they come to a halt, whether by accident or not.

Bullzaye said:

Do what you wish. Your expert may be correct.
Tim

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My expert was a driving insrtuctor at the Bondurant School in Arizona. The OP should, if he has ANY doubt, ask an actual professional. Don't believe me, don't belive Bullzaye.

Cobb,
You seem to be taking your winter driving very seriously. We all should. With an extremely rare, possibly non-existent, exception, none of us here are driving instructors. Call/contact one if you indeed want the REAL answer.

"Everyone thinks they're an above average driver" - Unknown.

abvidledUK said:

Best thing I did with my Jeeps...

When it snows, find a flat area, such as an empty car park, and practise. Push the limits, gently, and get to know the response of your car.

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And BOY is it fun. Whoo hoo.:rock:

JimmyM,
Hi. I just wanted to ask a quick question. In your first post, you said:

I'd run this one by someone who has actually received some training by professional

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Now you say:

My expert was a driving insrtuctor at the Bondurant School in Arizona

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Can you clarify? Did he receive instruction at Bondurant, or is he an instructor there? These 2 statements seem to conflict each other.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here...I'm seriously interested. I've been to Bondurant...it's an excellent course, and fun as heck. However I would have to say that this driving course, presented in the AZ desert, did not even attempt to instruct in the art of driving in ice/snow. Neither did I expect it to. Yes, they had a "wet track" but still, not quite the same. Also, all of the cars they were using at that time were RWD,and I don't recall them mentioning FWD, although that may be the fault of poor memory.
I still maintain...FWD & RWD require different driving methods, both in regard to steering and also in regard to brake/accelerator manipulation. Your advice to get professional instruction is sound.
I also skidded around the empty parking lot while learning to drive. It is indeed great fun and very instructional. I only wish I'd had that opportunity before driving off in that FWD car in Germany. That was an expensive driving lesson. Black ice sucks!
Tim

Practicing in an empty parking lot is one of the best things you can do. You learn best by experience, so get the feel for a skid and how to recover, as well as how loooonnnnngggg it takes to stop.

I didn't see this mentioned, but when I approach a stop sign or red light (approach meaning 1/2 block or more!) I apply the break easily and then LOOK IN THE MIRROR! I've been in 3 accidents in the winter and two were people rear-ending me. Check the person behind you while you still have options.

Next, if you're approaching an intersection and skid on very slick ice and cannot get stopped, release the brake and stear into the curb with your wheels turned sharply...it will almost always stop you, but at least will slow you. You may need an alignment afterwards (wheel...not back!) but it's cheaper than getting t-boned in the intersection.

If you have a manual transmission and go into a skid, put the clutch to the floor and release the brake...you'll recover almost immediately. Skids result from imbalance of forces. If you remove the force...acceleration or braking...from your wheels, you'll recover very quickly...but nothing is "quick" on ice!

Bullzaye said:

Can you clarify? Did he receive instruction at Bondurant, or is he an instructor there? These 2 statements seem to conflict each other.

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I was a student at the 4 day Grand Prix course. He was an instructor there. He also had been racing competitively up to just the year before.
They had Mustangs for student cars and Taurus SHOs for instructor cars. On the skid pad they had both Tauruses and Mustangs outfitted with outriggers. I drove the skid pad Tauruses sideways around the course as the instructor continually took weight off the wheels of the car until there was almost no control at all. One guy from Laredo, Texas, did not fare as well.
Anyway. There was no difference in instruction between the 2 cars. The outrigger cars are almost exactly like driving on ice. Right down to losing traction more as the tires heat up.

P.S. I won the last day "Race" by passing the #1 car by driving straight over turn 1 @ about 85 MPH with the hammer down.

Bullzaye said:

Black ice sucks!
Tim

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Dude, you ain't kidding!

One of the most important things is to look far ahead as possible and anticipate possible problems. An intersection, a driveway, kids playing on the side of the road in the snow - anything that might present an opportunity for something to get in your path since stopping times are so greatly increased.

JimmyM,
Very cool. It is a blast, is it not? They did not have Tauruses when I was there, or at least, I did not see them. All students were using the Mustangs, and the instructors were driving Crown Vics.
magic79,
You bring up a good point about looking in the mirror. After riding a motorcycle for the past 6 years, it's almost 2nd nature for me to check my mirror as I stop, but I never even thought to mention it. Good call.
Tim

I look at slippery conditions as a time to have some fun!

Our road was HORRIBLE after all the rain, and my trucks went about 30-35 degrees sideways suddenly.

But because I've owned a high horsepower car with a short wheelbase and played every chance I got, it was a no brainer to save my truck from spinning out or going into the ditch.

Do as others have suggested in going to a parking lot and experimenting. It can be a LOT of fun!