Any ideas why a P1D-CE costs $20 more than LxD-CE?

Hopefully someone in the know will have an answer!

They all use the same emitter, a similar circuit, roughly the same amount of aluminium with teh same anodising, and are presumably machined on the same production line. Why is the P1D-CE more expensive, especially since in some cases the machining and QC is quite a lot worse than the LxD-CE.

Do Fenix just sell so many more LxD-CEs that they are cheaper to make?

gadgetnerd said:

Hopefully someone in the know will have an answer!

They all use the same emitter, a similar circuit, roughly the same amount of aluminium with teh same anodising, and are presumably machined on the same production line. Why is the P1D-CE more expensive, especially since in some cases the machining and QC is quite a lot worse than the LxD-CE.

Do Fenix just sell so many more LxD-CEs that they are cheaper to make?

Click to expand...

Among other things, I develop and sell specialized software. I pay around 25 cents for a CD, and charge $600 for the CD with one version of the program burned onto it. I sell another version for $99. Why does the $99 version cost only $99 and the $600 version cost $600? After all, the manufacturing costs are the same. Why don't I just charge 50 cents for both -- wouldn't that be a "fair" price?

Although what it costs to make a product establishes the minimum price it can be sold for, it has little to do with the price if the product can be sold for more than the minimum. What establishes the price is what people are willing to pay. This is really what determines the value of just about anything, from a new car to an old teacup.

If Fenix is able to sell the P1D CE for $20 more than the LxD CE, it's because people will pay $20 more for the P1D CE. Period. The real question is why people will pay $20 more. My guess is that it's because the P1D CE was the first widely available Cree light. That and Fenix's reputation were sufficient to make people willing to pay the premium. But competition is heating up fast, so I'll bet we'll see the P1D CE price drop before too long. As you point out, there probably isn't a reason why Fenix can't lower the price if and when they find it necessary.

c_c

If you think that is bad, next time you are on a plane ask the person sitting next to you how much they paid for the ticket. Probably every person or group of people on the plane will have paid a different amount.

Market forces.

You sell 'em for what you can get for them.

P1D is seen as more desirable than LxD, to some.

Aesthetics.

Boy was I happy when Fenix decided on the lower prices for the AA versions.

That's what made me jump in ... there was no way I was going to pay the extra money for a 123-based light. I just wasn't set up for it.

I'm not knocking the p1d-ce, i'm just saying that personally since I haven't invested in rcr123's and a charger it wouldn't make as much sense financially to buy a p1d-ce unless I was in love with the EDC-like format of it.

We're talking what 12 bucks for the charger and an extra 3 bucks each for the rcr123's from AW? Something like that. Plus, i'm in Canada so customs wouldn't look kindly at rechargeable li-ions crossing customs etc ... maybe in the future ...

The P1D-CE was released before the LxD-CE series, the pricing structure and the production rates may have changed in that time

Part of it has to do with the lithium battery. Since Fenix sells lights to the world and not just CPF, I would bet they sell a lot more lights in the AA/AAA format compared to CR123A.

My crystal ball tells me that since the P1D CE was first, it had a much higher R&D/set-up cost to get rolling. Fenix chose to get back the costs upfront and the price rose in relation. Why did Fenix choose the CR123A P series first? I am ASSuming it is their "crown jewel" light and they wanted the smallest and brightest to come out first.

The L1D CE probably costs slightly more that the P1D CE in construction costs. More material, different switching and the tail clickie add to the cost of the light. The reason it is so much cheaper is the tremendous volume of AA lights they sell in relation to CR123A and what the market will accept in relation to the LxT series.

IMHO, it is harder to get a current regulated Cree light running off a 1.2V NiMH than running off a 3V lithium. Although the L1D CE won't run worth beans on turbo or high with a lowly alkaline, it will work great at low or medium settings. I would pay $20 more for the LxD CE over the P1D CE but luckily, it is cheaper! :thumbsup: Add in the much better UI and clickie tailswitch

You always pay more for bleeding edge technology although it is rare that something better arrives from the same company a month later that is cheaper. I wonder if 4sevens could get us sales figures for the P1D vs LxD series?

TORCH_BOY said:

The P1D-CE was released before the LxD-CE series, the pricing structure and the production rates may have changed in that time

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Nah, I just ordered a P1D-CE from a newer batch, and they're still $89 (torchworld).

I had my suspicions that Fenix were just charging what they though we'd be willing to pay. It doesn't take much study of CPF to see how much more expensive most CR123 lights are.

In its day, the Arc LS cost $160 and was about 1/4 the brightness of the P1D CE, so many CPF members think it's quite a deal.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/arc_lsh-p.htm

The P1D CE is also about $20 more than the P1D which is basically the same light except for the Cree LED, as compared with a $3 or so difference between the LxD-CE and the LxD. I think the P1D CE simply came out at a time when the Cree LED was new and exotic and Fenix used the rarity to crank up the price artifically (even then, I believe the Cree leds cost around the same as Luxeons). By the time the LxD-CE came out, Crees were everywhere and it was no longer possible to charge such a large premium. Meanwhile the P1D series have had those mechanical problems with the threads and so forth. I hope they come out with a successor model that fixes the problems and doesn't charge a lot extra artificially for the LED.

Good news to LxD owners wannabe right? Maybe when they came out with the P1D Ce, they had to spend more for R&D so price structure a bit more expensive. Furthermore P1Ds their flagship so it should be the most expensive from the rest.

"Meanwhile the P1D series have had those mechanical problems with the threads and so forth. "
Those problems with the threads have largely disappeared. The 'so forth' part I don't know what you're talking about.

Its because of jerks

remember when the P1D was int the works, there was a feeler, asking for possible features and such that whould (might) be incorporated.
WITHOUT being asked for, quite a bunch of the CR123 guys posted comments like "dont make it more expensive than 120,--".
Fenix would have been silly not to get more money, if "special" versions would receive it.

yellow said:

Its because of jerks

remember when the P1D was int the works, there was a feeler, asking for possible features and such that whould (might) be incorporated.
WITHOUT being asked for, quite a bunch of the CR123 guys posted comments like "dont make it more expensive than 120,--".
Fenix would have been silly not to get more money, if "special" versions would receive it.

Click to expand...

Could very well be...as a group, CPF was tripping all over themselves (a lot of slobber around...slippery) to get their paws on these babies... know I was.

What is the cost dif between bar stock and tubing,plus what others have said, because they can.

I agree with the above posts that pricing is largely dependent on what they can get away with.

But

I can't imagine it will sustain its higher price forever though as there will be other competitors coming out that are going to force Fenix to lower their price eventually (increased market forces).

I for one am looking forward to the next Lumanpower offerings like the new M3. It looks like it could be a good alternative for a few bucks more

You hit it on the nailhead CC!

If you want the LxD-CE look without the Fenix electronics, switch or price, dealextreme has a flashlight w/ cree using the Fenix body. $20