US & GB rank worst in child well-being survey

Lightmeup

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Who woulda thunk it?

"The United States and Britain ranked at the bottom of a United Nations survey released yesterday evaluating the well-being of children in wealthy countries.

The Netherlands topped the report issued by UNICEF, followed by other European countries with strong social welfare systems - Sweden, Denmark and Finland.

Among the report's overall findings was that wealth alone did not guarantee a child's well-being, with some poorer countries scoring ahead of richer ones. The United States and Britain finished 20th and 21st overall, respectively, behind Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary."

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hskids155094272feb15,0,4276990.story
 

270winchester

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ah yes, i can hear it now, Americans rushing to emigrate to Poland and Hungry because of how well one can raise their kids there.

Then why is it that last time I checked Poles, Czechs and Hungarians are still trying to come to America?
 

Lightmeup

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Powernoodle,That has nothing to do with this. This survey only included industrialized European countries, the US, and Canada.
 
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Lightmeup

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270winchester said:
Then why is it that last time I checked Poles, Czechs and Hungarians are still trying to come to America?
"Among the report's overall findings was that wealth alone did not guarantee a child's well-being, with some poorer countries scoring ahead of richer ones."
 

BB

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Well, you know what they say about statistics:

As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Infant Mortality...

The infant mortality rate correlates very strongly with and is among the best predictors of state failure.[1] IMR is also a useful indicator of a country's level of health or development, and is a component of the physical quality of life index. But the method of calculating IMR often varies widely between countries based on the way they define a live birth. The World Health Organization (WHO) defines a live birth as any born human being who demonstrates independent signs of life, including breathing, voluntary muscle movement, or heartbeat. Many countries, however, including certain European states and Japan, only count as live births cases where an infant breathes at birth, which makes their reported IMR numbers somewhat lower and raises their rates of perinatal mortality. The exclusion of any high-risk infants from the denominator or numerator in reported IMR's can be problematic for comparisons.

A well documented example illustrates this problem. Historically, until the 1990's Russia and the Soviet Union did not count as a live birth or as an infant death extremely premature infants (less than 1,000 g., less than 28 weeks gestational age, or less than 35 cm in length) that were born alive (breathed, had a heartbeat, or exhibited voluntary muscle movement) but failed to survive for at least 7 days.[2] Although such extremely premature infants typically accounted for only about .005 of all live-born children, their exclusion from both the numerator and the denominator in the reported IMR led to an estimated 22-25% lower reported IMR.[3] In some cases, too, perhaps because hospitals or regional health departments were held accountable for lowering the IMR in their catchment area, infant deaths that occurred in the 12th month were "transferred" statistically to the 13th month (i.e., the second year of life), and thus no longer classified as an infant death.[4]

Another challenge to comparability is the practice of counting frail or premature infants who die before the normal due date as miscarriages (spontaneous abortions) or those who die during or immediately after childbirth as stillborn. Therefore, the quality of a country's documentation of perinatal mortality can matter greatly to the accuracy of its infant mortality statistics. This point is reinforced by the demographer Ansley Coale, who finds dubiously high ratios of reported stillbirths to infant deaths in Hong Kong and Japan in the first 24 hours after birth, a pattern that is consistent with the high recorded sex ratios at birth in those countries and suggests not only that many female infants who die in the first 24 hours are misreported as stillbirths rather than infant deaths but also that those countries do not follow WHO recommendations for the reporting of live births and infant deaths. [5]

...
 

DonShock

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I always love these studies where they figure out the answer they want first, then only ask the questions that will produce that answer, and finally say "Golly, look what we found." After digging into some of these stories that just didn't make common sense, I don't trust these anymore. If you investigate some of these polls or other stories, you often find that they aren't always as clear cut as the headlines would lead you to believe.

Some of the discrepancies I've noticed:
- Report conclusions drawn from the raw data which disappear once the data is corrected for other factors.
- Oversampling of one group to increase the percentage of people expresssing certain opinions.
- Reporting "percent increase" in risk to magnify the threat. In other words, if a study shows that the number of people catching a disease rises from 1:1,000,000 to 1.5:1,000,000 that is still a very small risk. But the story will say "a 50% increase" in the risk.
- Leading questions designed to provoke certain answers.
- Limited choice of responses only allow the respondant to choose between the "right answer" and some extremist position on the other side.
- Occasionally, you can't tell if any of these have been done because the researcher just publishes his conclusions without any details about how he got there. And then when others try to check out his data and methodology, he refuses to supply them. This is usually accompanied by a "How dare you question me!" response to any inquiries. If the conclusion is real, there should be no worry about providing the data to support it.

I don't check out every story in detail, just a few that interest me personally. For the rest, I watch for other indicators to judge the reliability of the report. If there are just a bunch of conclusions with few details of the study itself, I tend to be suspicious. If the reporting lists details of groups polled, the questions asked, mentions data being corrected for other variables, and provides links to the details; I figure it's probably reliable.
 

TedTheLed

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golly that's the last time I'll trust the CIA for infant mortality figures. What do you figure is the reason for lower rates in the other 39, 40 countries?
and why would th cia publish such dopey info?
 

raggie33

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i ahve lived in some of the porest areas and i can belive that poll some people just dont take care of there kids i guess the same for rich areas.. but i aint sure how it is in other countries
 

cratz2

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powernoodle said:
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

These are the same folks who elected Libya to head the so-called Human Rights Commission. link

The UN is a joke. Their role is to harm western interests and extract money from the world's producers.

cheers

What are you talking about? If the UN said it, it must be true...

100% unbiased truth, I tell ya!
Christo_pull_hair.gif
icon10.gif
 

DonShock

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TedTheLed said:
golly that's the last time I'll trust the CIA for infant mortality figures. What do you figure is the reason for lower rates in the other 39, 40 countries?
and why would th cia publish such dopey info?
That's a good example, just a number listed for various countries. And estimates at that. And BB's post pointed out some of the possibilites as far as comparing apples to oranges. With enough digging, the info might prove to be a true picture or it might not. At least they did provide a link to the data file so such digging might be possible. But it being the CIA says nothing about the quality of the data. I'll take a study conducted by the homelss guy on the street over a one from a Harvard PhD if the homeless guy can provide documentation and answer questions while the PhD just says "But I'm from Harvard."

But even so, 179 out of 221 still makes it the top 20%. Not great, but not bad. And since "Countries for which no information is available are not included in this list.", it's probably even better than that. But whatever the ranking, it's just a number. Unless you take the time to find out WHY, it's worthless. Just proving a ranking and linking it to one policy without data isn't science, it's politics. Besides, you need to consider the positives and the negatives of any system. Most people are smart and good natured and will make the best decisions if they are allowed to the choice. Anybody that tries to tell somebody else that they know what's best for them makes me very worried.
 

TedTheLed

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this would explain alot of it;

http://www.overpopulation.com/articles/2002/000019.html

"...The primary reason Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than the United States is that the United States is a world leader in an odd category -- the percentage of infants who die on their birthday. In any given year in the United States anywhere from 30-40 percent of infants die before they are even a day old.

Why? Because the United States also easily has the most intensive system of emergency intervention to keep low birth weight and premature infants alive in the world. The United States is, for example, one of only a handful countries that keeps detailed statistics on early fetal mortality -- the survival rate of infants who are born as early as the 20th week of gestation.

How does this skew the statistics? Because in the United States if an infant is born weighing only 400 grams and not breathing, a doctor will likely spend lot of time and money trying to revive that infant. If the infant does not survive -- and the mortality rate for such infants is in excess of 50 percent -- that sequence of events will be recorded as a live birth and then a death..."
 

KC2IXE

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There is also another odd statistical link that goes with TedTheLed's message - Infant Mortality and Birth Defects have a direct linkage with Fertility Treatments. Yep - if you have to take drugs/use in Vitro to get Pregnant, you have a LOT higher risk of problems. The US has a VERY high relative rate of fertility treatments
 

chevrofreak

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powernoodle said:
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

These are the same folks who elected Libya to head the so-called Human Rights Commission. link

The UN is a joke. Their role is to harm western interests and extract money from the world's producers.

cheers


*high five*

**** the UN
 

jayflash

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While these statistics may not be entirely accurate it does show that we should be asking more questions. Knee-jerk anti UN rhetoric doesn't absolve the USA of its mistakes. No country is perfect - why such strong reaction to this tid bit? We should desire to improve our country like we do our flashlights.

Sometimes I wonder if, in the USA, fetuses have more protection and rights than living people already born?
 

cratz2

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Well, I'm about as far from a knee-jerk reactionary as you can get, but anytime I see the words 'statistics' and 'UN' in the same sentence, I assume it will be knocking SOMETHING that the US is doing. And that assumption usually works out pretty well because that's usually what they are doing.

ANY aspect of any country can ALWAYS be improved. I don't pretend to have all the answers, but it comes down to this, my kids SEEM to be doing fine and the UN has never questioned any of them. Averages, even of large groups, mean next to nothing. And I am 100% certain that I'd rather raise a child in the US than in Poland or the Czech republic.
 

270winchester

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look at he list of countries in the top 20, it's the continent of Europe Vs US and Canada.

"UNICEF ranked 21 industrialized countries in six categories: material well-being, health and safety, education, peer and family relationships, behavior and risks, and young people's own subjective sense of well-being."

without going to far into politics, the subjective nature of this test should be taken with a grain of salt. the size of 18 of the "well-being" countries are so tiny it's easy to take care of the kids. Wanna compare the well being of kids in Poland versus US? sure, take a kid from suburban Warsaw and take a kid from Compton, USA, you have your self a winner!!!! How about the kids from 124th and 97th from NYC versus some kid from Finland?

it's not a UNICEF report until one sings praises of the Nordic countries, FInland? check, Norway? Check, Sweden? CHeck. We are good. Oh yeah Denmark, Check.
 

JonSidneyB

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I remember is a statistic class I was in once where the professor changed the degree of freedom in order to alter the results. It was too long ago to remember the details but I remember thinking that was a way to be dishonest.
 
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