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Thread: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

  1. #31

    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Tom,

    That's a great comparison review of both chargers. In Test Mode, by the way, the Capacity is displayed at the end of the Discharge Phase and REMAINS through the entire 2nd Charge Phase until you remove the battery. You mentioned that it is not visible during the 2nd Charge Phase.

    I already purchased the LaCrosse BC-900 and do not see enough of a reason to dump it and replace it with the MH-C9000. I'll wait until the next generation comes out to pick a new model then.

    One advantage I see with the C9000 is the ability to only Discharge non-rechargeable batteries. However, the spec sheets available on the Internet already reveal that information. The larger display of the C9000 and the backlight is also an advantage. Usually, I have to shine a flashlight on the BC-900 display to see it properly.

    An advantage of the BC-900 is to continually display information for all 4 cells. I usually display voltage to see where I am in each cycle.

    The big advantage of the BC-900 is the shorter cycle times and the abscence of the rest times. I get a full Test Mode Cycle in 12 hours. I really wouldn't want to wait 39 hours for the same cycle.

    The reversal of size of charge and discharge currents between the 2 are not material to a casual user like myself. I doubt that it really matters much.

  2. #32
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitch470 View Post
    The big advantage of the BC-900 is the shorter cycle times and the abscence of the rest times. I get a full Test Mode Cycle in 12 hours. I really wouldn't want to wait 39 hours for the same cycle.
    You're not fooling me! 12 hours is not the same as 39 minus two hours for resting.

    It's not the same cycle. On both chargers you have the ability to choose what charge and discharge rates you want, and the 39 hour thing is the standard IEC test (plus another slow charge). 12 hours isn't enough time for even the charging part of that test - 16 hours at 0.1C.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    I dislike the default 1A charge setting, is it possible as workaround limit on the power supply (whit a resistance) the current at 0,4A for each cells?

    I know that is possible to set using the buttons but I do not want.

    Thanks, Mirco

    Bye.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Tom,

    I enjoyed this thread and the charger shoot out you did. Wonderful reference information, thank you.

    I just purchased this ( MH-C9000) charger, and if I may, I have a couple of questions and would appreciate your opinion.

    I would like to get maximum life out of my batteries and most of the time will not care too much about how long it takes to charge them. You had stated that at a low 200ma the charger may not terminate the charge cycle, which would obviously be detrimental to the battery life.

    My question is how low would be low enough to get maximum battery life but still be high enough for charge termination? Would .25C be a good compromise? This would be 675ma on a 2700mah battery and 500ma on a 2000mah battery. EDIT: I missed it in the manual yesterday. I found it this morning. It is recommended to not charge below .3C. This brings up another questions in my mind. My Eneloop charger charges at .15C. It seems to me this would be best for my batteries from a longevity stand point, and is actually better than any safe charge cycle the C9000 can provide? Am I thinking right?

    Second question. For maximum life, is it really necessary to Refresh and Analyze batteries that are used between two weeks and less than every three months like the manual says? I almost never cycle rechargables in less than two weeks. In this case I would be running a Refresh Analyze everytime I charge? It just doesn't seem like that much cycling is necessary.

    Thanks

    Bill
    Last edited by Hitthespot; 01-07-2009 at 10:36 AM. Reason: Added a Sentence.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Hello Bill,

    The improved C9000 now has no problem terminating even when charging at very low charge rates. When the battery reaches 1.47 volts, the main charge will terminate and the charger will go into top off mode. This means that you can pick any charge rate between 200 mA to 2000 mA and the C9000 will terminate. The primary termination method is -dV, but the back up termination of peak voltage also works well.

    I might point out that the chemical engineers that design batteries are not usually consulted by the electrical engineers that design chargers...

    The chemical engineers state that the best charge rate to generate a strong end of charge signal is in the 0.5 - 1.0C range. With Eneloop cells, that would be charging at 1000 - 2000 mA. The electrical engineers that put together the Eneloop chargers seem to have ignored this advice, and may have been under budget constraints.

    At any rate, you won't immediately kill your cells by slow charging them, and if your charger design incorporates alternate methods of charge termination, you may even get decent cycle life from your cells. I find that you get the best performance by following the advice of the chemical engineers, but the electrical engineers seem to do a decent job too...

    To keep your cells vibrant it is a good idea to discharge them and give them a break in cycle every 25 - 50 charge/discharge cycles, or once a year. If your cells are in storage, they should be stored discharged and given a charge/discharge cycle every 30 days. The low self discharge rate cells may give you a little more time between charge/discharge cycles so you may be able to extend the time to 60 days. With that said, we have seen Eneloop cells that are a couple of years old fall into shape very quickly after being stored with a partial charge and no other care. I have some of the initial Eneloop cells made and have been storing them on the shelf with no intervention. I plan to test them and see how well they perform after extended storage. We may find that the rules that we use for normal NiMh cells do not apply to the LSD cells.

    Tom
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  6. #36
    Flashaholic* Hitthespot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Tom,

    Most of my career was spent working with some of the finest old school electrical engineers. They just seemed to know everything about everything. When I first started working with them as a young man who knew nothing, I looked at them almost like royalty. However they were as down to earth as you could ask for. Never being impatient or short with me and taking as much time as I needed with them no matter how stupid my questions were. As the customer service manager of the same company I was in meetings with them and worked with them often, asking questions so I could answer customers questions associated with our Uninterruptible Power Supplies and Digital Static Transfer Switches. Starting there as a kid I really didn't know nothing about nothing, yet over the course of 24 years they taught me plenty, and I'm not just speaking of academics. I think of them almost like a son thinks of his father and will always believe that a lot of who I am today I owe to them. It has been years since I worked there and I'm sorry I never told them.

    The information you spend so much time collecting and then sharing with everyone for their benefit is unmeasurable. I have spent hours just reviewing your C9000 information. I told you the story above because you remind me of the engineers I once worked with. I guess I'm just trying to say thank you for taking the time to answer my question in detail, and to let you know you could be making differences your not even aware of. Sorry if I did it a little long winded.

    Thank You

    Bill
    Last edited by Hitthespot; 01-07-2009 at 09:53 PM. Reason: Spelling Corrections
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  7. #37

    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpos...8&postcount=67

    Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?

  8. #38
    Flashaholic* Hitthespot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    I don't know if this guy knows what he is talking about or not, but this charger does have boat loads of nice features and I am very happy with it so far. It is not perfect though. After spending my first couple of days with it I've found some quirks I would change. These are strickly my opinion though. I think some minor software changes and an extra button would do it.

    1) You can't turn the backlight off as long as there are batteries in it, and it seems like it will always have batteries in it.

    2) Once a mode has completed you cannot move on to another mode without removing and reinstalling the batteries. ( unless I'm missing something). It needs a reset button. EDIT: You may be able to avoid removing the batteries by unplugging the unit and plugging it back in. I'm in the middle of a break in cycle and cannot try it right now.

    3) You can't program all 4 bays at once. Each one must be programmed separately. This creates a number of more key punches.

    4) I believe the Refresh Mode and the Break-In Mode should begin with a discharge cycle not a charge cycle. (They could give you an option to skip this if you feel you don't need it first.

    5) The unit goes into default mode too quickly. It just dawned on me this would also stop you from unplugging and plugging the unit back in if you needed to program the charger as I stated in number two. You would never get to bay three and four in time.

    6) The manual Could be much better. For instance: It says nothing about a top off charge the last two hours after the done appears. Also It says nothing about after the two hour top off charge if there is a continious trickle charge, and if so, what is the current of the trickle charge? EDIT. The manual does state there is a top off charge and a trickle charge but it does not state what the current applied is for either.

    Maybe I'm being too picky.

    Bill
    Last edited by Hitthespot; 01-10-2009 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Edited for accuracy.
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitthespot View Post
    The information you spend so much time collecting and then sharing with everyone for their benefit is unmeasurable. I have spent hours just reviewing your C9000 information. I told you the story above because you remind me of the engineers I once worked with. I guess I'm just trying to say thank you for taking the time to answer my question in detail, and to let you know you could be making differences your not even aware of...
    Very nicely put Hitthespot. CPF is a great community because of knowledgeable people who contribute their time and expertise, and Silverfox is at the top of that list.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverFox View Post
    The improved C9000 now has no problem terminating even when charging at very low charge rates. When the battery reaches 1.47 volts, the main charge will terminate and the charger will go into top off mode. This means that you can pick any charge rate between 200 mA to 2000 mA and the C9000 will terminate.
    Hi Tom, I haven't been able to find an answer to this on the forum but how do I know if my C9000 is one of the newer versions that doesn't suffer from not terminating below 0.3C?

    Many thanks.

  11. #41

    Arrow Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    I also posted basically this in another thread - but thought it may be of interest here -

    I just got a Maha C9000 (code: 0H0FA) - so this is "novice" usage -
    I ran a discharge test on 3 different sets of my LSDs to compare.

    These were perhaps my least used sets -
    which have had what I would term my "ignorant" usage -
    ie: I just charge them in a cheapo smart charger (Soshine SC-C3 Intelligent Rapid Charger) and use -
    recharge when necessary - usually after they get depleted (shutdown) in equipment.
    But like I said these were my least used - 1 to 3 cycles may be....

    I topped up charged each set then left on charger for 1 hour (trickle charged? I know, maybe I should have left them on for 2 hours but I was impatient - and those batteries were all relatively recently fully charged on my cheapo charger or the Maha C9000 anyway) -
    turned charger off then started discharge at 0.2C (for all these = 400mA)

    ... Kodak Pre-Charged ...... eneloop ................... DuraLoop ................. Kodak P-C (1-4)
    1) 1951 mAh (322min) .... 1878 mAh (311min) .... 1867 mAh (308min) .... 1966 mAh (325min)
    2) 1961 mAh (326min) .... 1867 mAh (311min) .... 1858 mAh (308min) .... 1942 mAh (324min)
    3) 1994 mAh (329min) .... 1900 mAh (315min) .... 1872 mAh (309min) .... 1993 mAh (330min)
    4) 1944 mAh (323min) .... 1861 mAh (310min) .... 1868 mAh (310min) .... 1907 mAh (318min)

    EDIT to ADD - I just finished another discharge of another set of Kodak Pre-Charged - these have had more "abusive" usage - as this is the set that I use for my flashlight reviews - so they often get top-up charges and rarey get fully discharged in normal usage - I bought these back on June/21/2007 so were first charged on my cheapo jWin charger - relatively "smart" using -dV detection, claimed output current - 900mA, but only charged in pairs - then after mid-Feb/2008 I used the Soshine SC-C3 Intelligent Rapid Charger and only charged 1 to 2 of these at a time taking advantage of the higher 1050mA charge current.

    This time I did a top-up charge on the Maha C9000 and left the batteries on the charger (trickle charged?) for over 2 hours - then turned the charger off and back on for the discharge at ~ 0.2C (=400mA)

    Once again, but basing on only 4 samplings - it would appear that my charger's slot #3 seemed to show the highest capacity.


    The DuraLoops (Duracell Pre-Charged made in Japan with white tops) may have had a slight "advantage" I actually ran a refresh & analyze on those - but forgot to look in the 2 hour window and missed what capacity they read

    It would appear on this sampling of only 3 sets, that slot (3) on my Maha C9000 may read higher than the other slots?

    Also please see summary post #57 from eneloop vs. Kodak Pre-Charged Voltage Maintenance.
    Last edited by UnknownVT; 01-11-2009 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Added discharge results for another set of Kodak Pre-Charged

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo The Bear View Post
    http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpos...8&postcount=67

    Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?
    Does he sound "really" confused to you? Does he "really" know what he is talking about? I don't know, sounds to me like he knows a fair amount, and is certainly not really confused. He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that. I believe they will certainly confirm he is correct based on the current software. However, before I would say absolutely don't do it, we need to answer the question below.

    WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine.

    I'd like to know more about the Break-In cycle comments. If he is more or less right on this point then I would say he knows a lot. I'm not a big fan of Break-In, I'm more of a manual charge, discharge kind of guy. Mainly though it is because I have not had the time or the proper situation to give it a real test.

  13. #43
    Flashaholic* Hitthespot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine.
    This is what I mean by my comment the manual could be a little better. They leave you with unanswered questions.

    I have more to read and learn on this charger, but after reading that guys post a couple of more times, (I'm not sure what BB it was on) I'm not so sure his comments hold water, especially on the newer units.

    Bill
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  14. #44
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo The Bear View Post
    http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpos...8&postcount=67

    Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?
    Just FYI, and make note, I am assuming here, that Mikeabcd from the linked forum above just may be the Mike_abcd from here.

    He hasn't posted here in over a year and a half, but I remember him to be somewhat opinionated (aren't we all sometimes ), but certainly seemed to know what he was talking about. If interested, you could have a look at some of his old posts.
    "People don't plan to fail, they fail to plan."

  15. #45

    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    I'm using a BC-900 now and am shopping for another charger, I have too many batteries, not enough chargers .

    I planned on getting a C9000 mainly for the Break In feature. Everything else besides that a BC-900 can do, maybe not as great as a C9000, but good enough for me. The BC-900 has no Break In type of feature at all.

    If the Break In mode is not recommended for NIHMs per the post I linked previously there's no reason for me to get the C9000.

    Also, per StandardBattery's post:
    He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that.
    This is surprising to me. AAA's not recommended?

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo The Bear View Post
    ...
    This is surprising to me. AAA's not recommended?
    Note, I'm not recommending it, because I'm cautious. No one else I know of has said this. BUT I'M just being cautious until it's clear when this top off starts.

    My understanding is on AA it may start before delta-V in the Current software revision, it seems like Maha made this change to counter earlier issues with the charger and to try to keep the batteries cooler during charging. Still, for AAA it looks like they still may need some tweaking. I'm sure more will be known soon.

    You could buy the C808M if you need to charge a lot of cells.

  17. #47
    Flashaholic* Black Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    I've been charging Eneloop, Rayovac Hybrid, Titanium Enduro LSD, and regular NiMh AAA cells in the C9000 and C800S for close to a year.

    I have had no issues doing so.

    Mike's post has errors in it IMHO. When charging an AA at 2000 mA, it IS going to get hot no matter what charger is doing it.

    His advice about the Break-in cycle is flat out wrong. Take a look at what SilverFox says about it.
    Last edited by Black Rose; 01-12-2009 at 11:08 PM.

  18. #48
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    Shrug Who Really Cares?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo The Bear View Post
    http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpos...8&postcount=67

    Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?
    A better question, IMHO, is why do you even care about one post (from possibly a 'former' CPF member) on another forum when there is SO MUCH *EXCELLENT*, detailed, complete information, much of it from Moderator Tom (aka SilverFox) RIGHT HERE?

    Many folks post 'whatever they feel at the moment' on the internet. I wonder quite often if someone was forced to use their REAL NAME and was replying to someone that they interfaced with on a regular basis and had some influence on their future, would they put any more THOUGHT into their posts?

  19. #49
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    Lightbulb Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    ...WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine...
    Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum?

    Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.

    For example, *IF* you had been reading the CPF Archives for several hours per week since ~Thanksgiving 2008 , you would know that SMART CHARGERS terminate on the *FIRST* of the following conditions (NOTE: Not all SMART CHARGERS check ALL of the following conditions, but, AFAICT, to be considered SMART, they need to check AT LEAST ONE, but preferably more, of the first THREE.):
    1. DeltaV
    2. MAX Voltage
    3. MAX Temperature
    4. MAX Time
    ...otherwise they'd be called DUMB CHARGERS.

    Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    ...He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that...
    Please provide some LINKs to support this statement.

    If you choose an appropriate charging current (i.e. 0.5C) and don't get the AAA cells overly hot (1.0C or higher), I don't see why there would be any problem. 0.14C (100/700) or 0.12C (100/800) isn't so much current over Standard Charge that two hours worth is going to do any damage to the cell.

    Quote Originally Posted by StandardBattery View Post
    ...I'd like to know more about the Break-In cycle comments. If he is more or less right on this point then I would say he knows a lot. I'm not a big fan of Break-In, I'm more of a manual charge, discharge kind of guy. Mainly though it is because I have not had the time or the proper situation to give it a real test.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sadly for me, though, is the fact that I have a difficult time letting incorrect information go by unchallenged (although the folks that I've personally deemed 'gurus' here don't seem to. ).

    I enjoy learning new things. And, I enjoy sharing my knowledge and thereby, helping other people. So, if you GOOGLE my User ID, you'll find several FAQs (similar to the one in my Sig Line) on various forums.

    READ, LEARN, LIVE LONG and PROSPER...

  20. #50

    Arrow Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo The Bear View Post
    Re: the post on SlickDeals from the opening statement:

    " I orded it from Thomas Distributing before its release two years ago "

    I am not an expert on the Maha C9000 but wasn't there some problem with early versions - that's pretty well known and documented?
    (and his has to be an early version, since he ordered before it was even released)

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by TakeTheActive View Post
    Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum?

    Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.

    For example, *IF* you had been reading the CPF Archives for several hours per week since ~Thanksgiving 2008 , you would know that SMART CHARGERS terminate on the *FIRST* of the following conditions (NOTE: Not all SMART CHARGERS check ALL of the following conditions, but, AFAICT, to be considered SMART, they need to check AT LEAST ONE, but preferably more, of the first THREE.):
    1. DeltaV
    2. MAX Voltage
    3. MAX Temperature
    4. MAX Time

    ...otherwise they'd be called DUMB CHARGERS.
    Ya we're not talking about how they are suppose to work, were talking about how they work, in fact the debate was whether they were "DUMB CHARGERS" or "SMART CHARGES". There have been a few revisions you know, they weren't too smart on the first release.


    Quote Originally Posted by TakeTheActive View Post
    Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]
    This is true, but he is complaining about them charging too hot, and we're trying to be nice as a smart charger will charge them without making the cells reach max temperature. That's a safety mechanism and something a dumb charge might rely on.

    Quote Originally Posted by TakeTheActive View Post
    Please provide some LINKs to support this statement.
    Ummm msg 9 and msg 11? and several previous posting on the charger operation.

    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TakeTheActive View Post
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sadly for me, though, is the fact that I have a difficult time letting incorrect information go by unchallenged
    I'm not giving any incorrect information, just an opinion and some ideas on how to determine the facts. In fact we are challenging the information given in the other form... but were not just dismissing it.


    Well I to am trying to be helpful, I'm sorry if you don't see it that way.


  22. #52

    Default Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

    I heard that MH-C9000 will have new model this year. Should I wait for a few months?

  23. #53
    *Flashaholic* Burgess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    And just WHERE did you hear this piece of information ? ? ?


    We would simply LOVE an updated model,
    with a USB interface connection.



    _

  24. #54
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Is it really true that the C9000 will top off a AAA for 2 hours at 100 ma? Even during the 'rest' period between refresh-type cycles? If so, how damaging could that be? (100 ma for 2 hours sounds like an awful lot for AAA's.)
    I've been reading the 'batteries' area here for over a year, but this is the first time I heard about the AAA thing.. (or, at least, comprehended it. )

    I just received a BC-900 about 12 hours ago - to compliment my C9000. So should I use my bc-900 for my main AAA charging needs? And only use the Maha for break-ins and whatnot - for AAA's?
    Last edited by Hoggy; 02-04-2009 at 08:32 AM.
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  25. #55
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Hello Hoggy,

    Yes there is a 2 hour top off after the charger shows done. The top off charge rate is 100 mA.

    With AAA cells, it is not a problem if you charge at higher charge rates. For example, if you have 800 mAh cells, you should charge in the 500 - 800 mA range. If you do this, the charger will terminate on high voltage (1.47 volts) and utilize the top off charge to complete the charging process.

    If you charge AAA cells at 200 mA, you could run into some problems with overcharge from the top off charge. Of course this would depend on the capacity of the cells you are charging.

    Tom
    Behind every Great man there's always a woman rolling her eyes...

    Most batteries don't die - they are tortured to near death, then murdered...

  26. #56
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Thanks to everyone for such complete information!

    I'm in the market for a charger with at least four independent charging circuits. While my Maha C204-W has four slots, it requires two batteries to run either "double bay", and I doubt that it's optimally charging batteries.

    Want to make sure that the Maha MH-C9000 will absolutely, completely, independently charge each battery separately. However, Tom's original report of 02-25-2007 says that "In multi cell applications, your device will stop working when the lowest capacity cell runs out. To get the best performance in multi cell applications, you need to match your cells on capacity. This way they all run out at the same time. The discharge mode of the C9000 allows you to do this."

    I may well be missing something, but wouldn't that mean that each slot is NOT charging its battery completely independent of the others?

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

    [QUOTE=TakeTheActive;2786106]
    Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]


    [quotation above from TakeTheActive on 01-14-2009]

    Does this mean that the Maha MH-C9000 will NOT fully charge batteries?!

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Yes, the C9000 will charge completely every single cell since and every slot have its own channel.

    When Tom was talking about multi-cell applications and that the device will stop working when the first cell run out, that device is the one where you use the cells (a flashlight or whatever), not the charger itself (in fact, if I am not wrong, the device will not stop working, but the "good" cells will start to reverse charging the depleted cell).

  29. #59
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    Default Re: Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger

    Quote Originally Posted by TakeTheActive View Post
    Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum?

    Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.

    For example, *IF* you had been reading the CPF Archives for several hours per week since ~Thanksgiving 2008 , you would know that SMART CHARGERS terminate on the *FIRST* of the following conditions (NOTE: Not all SMART CHARGERS check ALL of the following conditions, but, AFAICT, to be considered SMART, they need to check AT LEAST ONE, but preferably more, of the first THREE.):
    1. DeltaV
    2. MAX Voltage
    3. MAX Temperature
    4. MAX Time
    ...otherwise they'd be called DUMB CHARGERS.

    Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]

    Please provide some LINKs to support this statement.

    If you choose an appropriate charging current (i.e. 0.5C) and don't get the AAA cells overly hot (1.0C or higher), I don't see why there would be any problem. 0.14C (100/700) or 0.12C (100/800) isn't so much current over Standard Charge that two hours worth is going to do any damage to the cell.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sadly for me, though, is the fact that I have a difficult time letting incorrect information go by unchallenged (although the folks that I've personally deemed 'gurus' here don't seem to. ).

    I enjoy learning new things. And, I enjoy sharing my knowledge and thereby, helping other people. So, if you GOOGLE my User ID, you'll find several FAQs (similar to the one in my Sig Line) on various forums.

    READ, LEARN, LIVE LONG and PROSPER...
    Quote Originally Posted by vali View Post
    Yes, the C9000 will charge completely every single cell since and every slot have its own channel.

    When Tom was talking about multi-cell applications and that the device will stop working when the first cell run out, that device is the one where you use the cells (a flashlight or whatever), not the charger itself (in fact, if I am not wrong, the device will not stop working, but the "good" cells will start to reverse charging the depleted cell).


    Many thanks to Vali for your reply. (Jeez, that makes sense!)

    Sorry I can't understand the computer system used in this forum and can't find a phone number to call someone to clarify what I should do to spare regular users the torture of "newbies". (It seems that above what I'm writing here in my message is stuff starting with completely extraneous material, for which I apologise but can't rectify.)

    I did post another query which I hope someone can answer (probably revealing my ignorance, which I happily acknowledge):

    [QUOTE=TakeTheActive;2786106]
    Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]

    [quotation above from TakeTheActive on 01-14-2009]

    Does this mean that the Maha MH-C9000 will NOT fully charge batteries?!

  30. #60
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    Lightbulb Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...

    Quote Originally Posted by yite View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TakeTheActive View Post
    Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]
    [quotation above from TakeTheActive on 01-14-2009]

    Does this mean that the Maha MH-C9000 will NOT fully charge batteries?!
    No. Please re-read the portion highlighted in green.

    Maha lowered Max Voltage in the current MH-C9000 to prevent overcharging / overheating if cells miss -DeltaV. The effect was that most AA cells now terminated on Max Voltage instead of -DeltaV leaving them slightly undercharged (@~90%, IIRC). Thus, the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely.

    A side effect, of concern to some, is the effect of the TopOff Charge on the smaller, lower capacity AAAs.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverFox View Post
    ...With AAA cells, it is not a problem if you charge at higher charge rates. For example, if you have 800 mAh cells, you should charge in the 500 - 800 mA range. If you do this, the charger will terminate on high voltage (1.47 volts) and utilize the top off charge to complete the charging process.

    If you charge AAA cells at 200 mA, you could run into some problems with overcharge from the top off charge. Of course this would depend on the capacity of the cells you are charging.
    My MH-C9000 runs 24x7 doing BREAK-INs and/or REFRESHes on my stock of non-LSD AA NiMHs so I haven't experienced the AAA overcharging / overheating problem - I use my La Crosse BC-900 or Rayovac PS23-B for recharging them.

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