Earliest multi-led dive/underwater light using collimators?

I am looking for a little help here... I have already tried using the search tool extensively.

Does anyone know of a multi-LED light which used collimating optics prior to 2004 and was marketed for diving or sold as waterproof (preferrably with a specific depth rating)?

Here's why: On May 7, 2004 a company in Europe filed for a patent on the use of collimating optics on ANY light to be used underwater having more than one light element. This patent has already issued for the UK, and is on track to be approved for an international patent soon.

I feel that it is wrong to patent such an obvious development, and if it can be prevented it should be. How is using two or more LED's instead of one when underwater patentable? :huh2:

I am aware of single led lights designed for diving which existed prior to that date (i.e. Tektite Expedition Star). I have been unable to find multi-led lights which used collimators for underwater lighting applications prior to 2005 though. The PrincetonTec Shockwave LED is the earliest example I have found so far.

I am sure sombody must have made a waterproof light which used more than one LED and collimating optics. It does not have to have been mass produced... Only made and offered for sale. So, even if one light were made as a custom piece and sold to a customer prior to 2004 this would invalidate their patent.
:touche:

If anyone does know of a light by this description then please let me know. If you are interested in reading the patent the international patent application number is : WO 2005/108203 A1.

Thanks in advance,

EngineeringGuy

Maybe some of the early Barbolights?? My U09 came with reflectors, but there were lights before that which may have used optics..

Anyone else have any insight on this one?

Underwater Kinetics had some big multi-led dive lights. I dunno if they had collimation beyond the epoxy envelopes on the individual leds. But that might count as collimation for the purpose of defeating a patent.

"More than one light element" would include incandescents too, one would expect? Many dive lights had multiple incan bulbs for redundancy purposes (so you could deal with a lamp burnout without having to change bulbs underwater). I don't know if it was common to light more than one simultaneously.

Here is a press release for the Tek-Tite L12 Seeker, dated October 1, 2004:

http://www.nicoshop.com/l12_seeker_en.pdf

I wonder if there was some earlier announcement.

Paulr, wow that press release is really close, but just after the patent date. I will try contacting Tek-tite directly and see if they can provide proof of their product existing prior to May 7, 2004 (May 12th is the date Tek-tite lists on their website). I already checked with Underwater Kinetics, in fact my company has close relations with UK, so we know them well. I appreciate your efforts on this. I am suprised that light by Tek-tite escaped my searches... it was right under my nose.

Here's another one that's less known (but pricey!):

http://www.nocturnallights.com/SLX_LED_Dive_Light_p/slx.htm

Although I'm not sure when it came out...

As a diver myself I'd love to see some competition. Dive lights are lagging behind in technology to that of simple handheld topside lights.

The Trek 2 uses two leds and is waterproof to 1,000 feet; does that qualifies as a diving light?

Does it use collimators? Very unlikely since they used 5 mm leds (state of the art at the time) but is it really important! The idea is there: multi leds + diving light. The fact that they used 5mm led could in actually be a plus. It was obvious that when led technology would improve, they would put more efficient light engines in there and high intensity leds do require collimators as a matter of facts.

Is this company patenting a design or the idea itself, thereby trying to prevent any competition.

I do not have a release date but a review at the LED Museum was done in june 2001 : http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/ledleft.htm

Craig at the led museum might be able to help you, try to contact him there or here at CPF.

Take a look at this site.....Click Here ....Plenty of dive light manufacturers with multi colaminator luxeon lamps.
No idea when each respective manufacturer first brought them into being though.


Tim.

Thanks for the help so far guys. I am tracking down these leads, but nothing solid so far.

Calina, they have already patented the idea in the UK, maning that in the UK they have the right to sue anyone who sells a multi-LED light which is sold or marketed for use underwater and employs collimating optics.

As I said in my first post, the international patent has been applied for and has not yet been approved or denied yet. This means it is not a sure thing that they wil get the patent. I have heard rumours of threatened lawsuits already, and am trying to compile some information just in case.

I hate to see this type of anti-competitive behavior. Especially when the patented "technology" is something so obvious to anyone who knows anything about LED illumination. These guys aren't claiming to have invented a special type of collimator, or even a special configuration of light. They simply are patenting the use of more than one LED in conjunction with collimating optics in an underwater application. They specifically mention applications for pool lights, dive lights, and through hull lights and others in their patent documents.

Every 5mm led has a lens built into the envelope. For patent purposes I would say that is a collimator. The 5mm led manufacturer buys LED dice from somewhere and puts them into these collimating packages, or in some cases the packaging is applied by the same company that makes the die. Either way it just means the flashlight vendor has chosen to use integrated led/collimator assemblies from another source, but it's still a collimated led light, which is what is being asked for.

if you could completly patent an idea like that, we would all be PAYING some estate somewhere to make any flashlight. i dont see where it is any different for a sealed one.
and if there is a patent, and its fully valid and sustainable in court, its just a matter of paying the holder royaltees they agree apon.
patents are not to create monopolies, its just to pay the person who used thier brain, and thought up something NEW , and had a bunch of laywers.

because the manufacture of the LEDs has already stated many ways to use the leds, with and without culmincating optics, one would be hard pressed to "patent" the idea when another HAD the idea first.

a Original thought does not solidify a patent, the "author" of the original thought still had the first intelectual property rights on that thought.

how hard would it be to prove that 100 other people had the same idea, and had proposed it PUBLICLY to be verifyable in court.

^ this guy aint no lawyer ^

DragonLED Dragon 9, April 3 2004, 3x 3W Luxeons with Fraen optics, dive rated to 1000 feet:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=47494

AKA Barbolight, thanks for the link and backup paulr.. I looked for that but couldn't find it..

I think that's a forerunner to the Barbolight U-09 which came later. I saw a U-09 mention from July 2004 or thereabouts. But I think the DragonLED satisfies the requirements in all respects.

EngineeringGuy said:

TI hate to see this type of anti-competitive behavior. Especially when the patented "technology" is something so obvious to anyone who knows anything about LED illumination.

Click to expand...

*cough*mag*cough*lite*cough :green: Their LED patents is really broad, as is their previous one detailing cylindrical shape lights with beam "focusing", etc.

Here's a short thread about Bersub.

Mystery French Dive Light

Then here is Bersub at VieuxPlongeur.

They seem to have some real professional stuff. They may have been quick out of the starting gate. I don't know. Tried to find a patent but all I got was French. Nice looking lights.

Thanks for all of the help guys. I was out of town in Phoenix for the weekend I'll have a look at these in detail. Looks like the DragonLED Dragon 9 looks like it might fit the bill. I appreciate it very much and I'll let you guys know what ends up happening with this patent.

Regards,

EngineeringGuy

paulr said:

Every 5mm led has a lens built into the envelope. For patent purposes I would say that is a collimator. The 5mm led manufacturer buys LED dice from somewhere and puts them into these collimating packages, or in some cases the packaging is applied by the same company that makes the die. Either way it just means the flashlight vendor has chosen to use integrated led/collimator assemblies from another source, but it's still a collimated led light, which is what is being asked for.

Click to expand...

I agree, however the wording of the patent specifically describes "high power" LEDs and specifies a power input of greater than 1 watt.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if they got the patent, then a company started manufacturing LEDs with greater than 1 watt input rating AND built in Collimating optics. Would you then not be able to package these in a sealed tube, and sell it?

I'd rather that the whole patent was invalidated/dismissed and we had lots of companys making competing products to give consumers improved selection and allow for healthy progress in a market segment which is already lacking in choices (IMO).