New Dates For Daylight Saving Time

Empath · Mar 2, 2007

Daylight Saving Time in the USA will be arriving earlier than it has before. Actually, it will begin a week from this coming Sunday. The new schedule is for it to start the second week of March, and end on the first Sunday of November.

Our computers had been programmed to adjust automatically, at the right time, but only under the old DST schedules. They're not programmed properly anymore, and with the change it means it will be an hour off until the old-time-change date, and an hour wrong again after the last Sunday of October.

Here's what needed to upgrade your machine for the new schedule.

Windows XP: If you've been getting you upgrades, the new routine is a part of the last months upgrades. If you haven't already, you'll need to update before the 11th. If you update only the date routine, it's named 'KB931836', and is available at Microsoft's site.

Windows 98: Windows 98 isn't supported any longer, but there is a tool on the Windows 98 CD called 'txedit' contained in the folder "\tools\reskit\config". You can use it to change the start and end dates for DST.

The new settings are:

Start Day = the Second Sunday of March
Last Day = the First Sunday of November

Windows 2000: I've been told that the Windows 2000 CD contains the same 'txedit' tool, but I've also been told that it can't be found on it. Regardless, the Windows 98 version seems to work on Windows 2000 with no problem.

I've no idea what's available for a Mac. As far as I know, those users might even ignore the calendar the rest of us use, and have some sort of proprietary calendar that only they use.

Edit: I've been informed that the utility for Windows 98 is named tzedit instead of txedit.

TorchMan · Mar 2, 2007

Thanks for the updates. I didn't think the new dates would be until fall. Never liked DST, and now there's more of it. :ohgeez:

js · Mar 2, 2007

Empath said:
I've no idea what's available for a Mac. As far as I know, those users might even ignore the calendar the rest of us use, and have some sort of proprietary calendar that only they use.

tsk, tsk, tsk, Empath! Are you trying to start up a Mac vs. PC flame war?

On another note, I hate that we're having MORE daylight savings time per year now.

The old schedule was bad enough.

jch79 · Mar 2, 2007

Empath said:
I've no idea what's available for a Mac. As far as I know, those users might even ignore the calendar the rest of us use, and have some sort of proprietary calendar that only they use.

You don't have to worry about us... our computers did it on their own

john

EDIT: js, you beat me to it! In my defense, it took me a while, as I was trimming down my original post, which was... well, :nana:

gadget_lover · Mar 2, 2007

I just hope Tivo does OK.

I hate the idea that they've screwed with the tiem zones again. I have some old computers that have needed no updates in years, and now I have to patch them too!

Sheesh.

Daniel

2xTrinity · Mar 2, 2007

At this point I honestly think they should just stay on daylight savings time for the entire year. The vast majority of the year is already on the daytime clock, it's silly to keep changing back and screwing up everyone's internal clocks twice a year.

goldenlight · Mar 2, 2007

2xTrinity said:
At this point I honestly think they should just stay on daylight savings time for the entire year. The vast majority of the year is already on the daytime clock, it's silly to keep changing back and screwing up everyone's internal clocks twice a year.

The reason I always seem to hear is that if we were on DST all year around, some of the earlier school busses would be running in the dark. Pretty much everyone agrees that having school childern going to their bus stops in the dark would be a bad idea.

I would personally prefer it also, but not if it means school children get hit by cars driven by people while talking on cell phones......

ACMarina · Mar 2, 2007

Why not just do school from 10-2?? I could learn everything *I* need in a flat 4 hours

greenlight · Mar 2, 2007

I'll post this again... just wait until Halloween, when DST is extended another week. Remember how Halloween was spooky, got dark really fast, well now it will be lighter later, not as spooky, but I'm not giving out candy until dark, even if the families come around at the usual time 6:15, now they are going to have to wait until 7:15 which makes it that much harder on parents. Then the curfew is an hour sooner, too. Damn.. I like to get it all wrapped up around 8:20, that's late enough, now it's going to be more like 9pm.

BB · Mar 2, 2007

Also, be sure to confirm you electronic calendars with others and check your flight times as now it will be all messed up since Europe (and the rest of the world) and the US are not synchronized in DST during these 4 extra weeks per year of DST.

I don' know how the airlines are going to manage connecting flights and equipment arriving/departing an hour out of sync with each other.

And for those on Time of Use power meters--PG&E just sent a notice that they will not be updating them for the new time--so, for example, in my case, my peak times for those 4 weeks will move from noon-6pm to 1pm-7pm for peak power charges.

-Bill

It is stupid stuff like this that gives government a bad name. :barf:

(just had to use that new emoticon)....

dfred · Mar 2, 2007

This inane change to DST also affects most parts of Canada which observe DST. The first post should probably be edited to reflect this is not solely a US problem. For more information regarding the situation in Canada see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_around_the_world#Canada

For an extremely comprehensive discussion of how to deal with the change see:

http://www.uic.edu/depts/accc/systems/daylight/contents.html

But in case you don't have time to read through all that...

Here's a detailed page at Microsoft support regarding the update availability for various Windows versions:

http://support.microsoft.com/gp/dst_topissues#A5

For more information regarding updating Macs, see:

http://www.uic.edu/depts/accc/systems/daylight/mac.html

Most Unix variants, including Mac OSX and Linux, use a system called 'zoneinfo' to compute localtime from UTC, which their system clocks are set to. While OSX uses zoneinfo, the desktop interface apparently uses its own seperate method; see the above link.

In any case, to check whether a Unix system's zoneinfo database has been updated for the changes to DST, use this command at a shell prompt:

zdump -v /etc/localtime | grep 2007

If the zdump command isn't found try a full pathname, such as /usr/sbin/zdump or /usr/etc/zdump, or try running the command as root.

On a system that has been updated you will see something like:

Code:

/etc/localtime  Sun Mar 11 06:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Mar 11 01:59:59 2007 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000
/etc/localtime  Sun Mar 11 07:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Mar 11 03:00:00 2007 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
/etc/localtime  Sun Nov  4 05:59:59 2007 UTC = Sun Nov  4 01:59:59 2007 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400
/etc/localtime  Sun Nov  4 06:00:00 2007 UTC = Sun Nov  4 01:00:00 2007 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000

If those dates are Apr 1/Oct 28 instead of what you see above, your system has not been properly updated. Updating zoneinfo is not excessively complicated for the Unix savvy, but I'd first try getting patches/updates from the vendor or distribution provider. If anybody can find a detailed HOWTO on updating zoneinfo manually, please post a link.

The zoneinfo 'homepage' is at:

http://www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm

The current version of the zoneinfo database can be downloaded from:

ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2007c.tar.gz

That tar file contains the time zone definition files which are then "compiled" by the zic command into the actual zoneinfo database which the system uses.

Good luck on DST2.007K...

Carpenter · Mar 2, 2007

Also remember some of the older electronic devices (like alarm clocks) that automatically adjust for DST. They won't know to adjust next weekend, but they will adjust come April 1 and you'll end up waking up an hour early and having to adjust the time again.

It's just a conspiracy to buy all new electronics. Which isn't bad in my opinion:naughty:

FlashKat · Mar 2, 2007

Just have every child in school carry flashlights...that is a no brainer for us flashoholics to solve the problem of darkness.:lolsign::lolsign::lolsign:

goldenlight said:
The reason I always seem to hear is that if we were on DST all year around, some of the earlier school busses would be running in the dark. Pretty much everyone agrees that having school childern going to their bus stops in the dark would be a bad idea.

I would personally prefer it also, but not if it means school children get hit by cars driven by people while talking on cell phones......

Bright Scouter · Mar 2, 2007

goldenlight said:
The reason I always seem to hear is that if we were on DST all year around, some of the earlier school busses would be running in the dark. Pretty much everyone agrees that having school childern going to their bus stops in the dark would be a bad idea.

I would personally prefer it also, but not if it means school children get hit by cars driven by people while talking on cell phones......

My kids hardly ever get on the bus while it is daylight anyway. They always need to be at the bus stop before 7:00 am and it doesn't get light that early much of the school year.

Bright Scouter · Mar 2, 2007

jch79 said:
You don't have to worry about us... our computers did it on their own

john

EDIT: js, you beat me to it! In my defense, it took me a while, as I was trimming down my original post, which was... well, :nana:

Really? I thought Apple put out a patch similar to Microsofts for the OS X newer versions in February, but the older versions weren't covered by it. Does OS X not need a patch at all?

jch79 · Mar 2, 2007

I'm running OSX 10.4.8 at work, and 10.3.9 at home, and it popped up and downloaded on both of them! :shrug:
So they do need a patch, but a user doesn't have to seek it out.

Bright Scouter · Mar 2, 2007

That makes sense. Mine did an auto download of what it needed also. Thanks!

gadget_lover · Mar 2, 2007

The update is simple for those with older Linux systems....

1) download the data file into a temporary location.
cd /tmp
mkdir tzemp
cd tztemp
wget ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata2007c.tar.gz

2) Untar the file
tar -zvf tzdata2007c.tar.gz

# Now you have a dozen files. I only recompiled the one that affects me, The northamerica rules.
3) Make a new sub-directory for the new zone files
mkdir tstzone

4) Create the zone files.
zic -d ./tstzone northamerica

5) Copy the new zone as appropriate. In my case, the zone "US/Pacific" is based on "Los angeles" which is based on the PST8PDT rule. The change was in PST8PDT.

My old zone file was in /usr/share/zoneinfo, so I made a backup and copied the new file to that directory.
cp tstzone/PST8PDT /usr/share/zoneinfo/

Done.

I copied the same PST8PDT file to all my linux systems. All are now properly updated.

Daniel

carrot · Mar 2, 2007

Whose dumb idea was it to change the DST dates anyway? Now I have a bajillion things that *used* to change properly but now need to be updated.

BB · Mar 2, 2007

Ask and you shall receive:

The Energy Policy Act of 2005 was passed by Congress and then signed into law by President George W. Bush on August 8, 2005. Under the new law, Daylight Saving Time begins three weeks earlier than previously, on the second Sunday in March. DST is extended by one week to the first Sunday in November. The new start and stop period begins March 2007. The original House bill would have added two full months, one in the spring and another in the fall. According to some U.S. senators, farmers complained that a two-month extension could adversely affect livestock, and airline officials said it would have complicated scheduling of international flights. So, a compromise was worked out to start DST on the second Sunday in March and end the first Sunday in November.

And one arbritary research paper (written for State of California--not paid for by big oil or big BBQ :grin2:

):

Electricity Savings From Early Daylight Saving Time

Synopsis: There is no clear evidence that electricity will be saved from the earlier start to daylight saving time on March 11, but the 7 p.m. peak load will probably drop on the order of 3% for the remainder of March, lowering capacity requirements. This could be negated by a new morning spike as it was in Australia in 2000, but that appears unlikely. In any event, capacity constraints usually do not occur in March and early November.

Summary: In 2000 and 2001, the Energy Commission created simulations to model what would happen to electricity use if Daylight Saving Time (DST) began early. The simulations examined how electricity use would respond to newly darker and cooler mornings using cool dark winter mornings as a reference point, and how electricity use would respond to lighter and warmer evenings by looking at those in the summer.

Implicit in the model is the assumption that people maintain their daily schedules rather than change wake-up or work hours in response to either changing seasons or Daylight Saving Time.

We found that if people do maintain their daily schedules then spring and fall Daylight Saving Time extensions would probably cause a 2 to 5% drop in the evening peak load. Meanwhile, morning electricity use would grow some, but probably not enough to offset evening savings.

The net effect is small and uncertain: a best guess of total net energy savings is on the order of ½ of one percent, but savings could just as well be zero. Moreover, our statistical analysis leaves us with one chance in four there could be a very small increase in electricity use.

The possibility of an increase in electric use is not just academic. A recent study of the impact of DST in the state of Victoria Australia found that when DST came 2 months early for the 2000 Olympics, residents of Victoria experienced a sharp morning spike in electricity use resulting in an overall increase in consumption and peak load. There are reasons, however, to question the applicability of Victoria's experience to California.

Victoria advanced DST two months, not three weeks, so Victorians were awakening on darker mornings than Californians will experience. A sufficient number of Victorians appear to have turned on lights and begun their activities in the dark mornings to eliminate any evening savings.

By March 11 when California will get DST only 3 weeks early, sunrise in California will leave fewer early risers in the dark.

In addition, Victoria already showed a small morning peak during normal DST transition times, something California has not shown. So it seems Victorians are naturally more likely to peak their electricity use in the morning than Californians are – possibly starting their work hours more uniformly because they have shorter commutes. Meanwhile, comparisons between electricity use before and after DST started in California support the notion that our evening peak will drop.

In summary, it seems very likely that our peak load will drop in the evening, possible that we will save a fraction of a percent of total electricity use, and possible but unlikely that we will see a morning electricity spike that would negate evening savings.
...
When the state of Victoria in Australia advanced spring Daylight Saving Time by 2 months in 2000 to accommodate the Olympics, people created a new morning peak load that negated all benefits of the reduced evening peak load (Kellogg and Wolff, 2007). Figure 2 compares South Australia without the change in DST on the left to Victoria with the change in DST on the right.

The red curve on the right representing Victoria in 2000 shows a new morning spike. (The spike is not caused by the Olympics: Kellogg and Wolff removed times and locales associated with Olympics activity in their statistical analysis.)

Boy--between The Australian Bulb Ban saving 0.14% in power, and new DST saving another 0% to 0.5%--we will have to dump oil and coal into our streams and rivers to dispose of all of the excess energy being saved...

-Bill

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