M*G LED (4D) DROP-IN

KentuckyMike · Mar 7, 2007

Hey everyone,

I have a 4D M*G that I'm wanting to transition to LED. This would be an around-the-house light for power outages (and possibly a last-ditch baton...). ;-) Because of the cost and run-time (and the anticipated usage of this light), I have decided on the M*G-brand drop-in for this one. Per the runtime graph on FLR.com, it drops to ~50% within minutes, but then stays steadily regulated at that level for over 40 hours. Clearly from the graph, the drop is due to a quick build up of heat, which causes the module to drop the output.

Now here's my question...if I were to use the light as an all-around light (i.e. 1 minute here, two minutes there, 10 minutes there), it stands to reason that the light wouldn't build and maintain heat like it would under the LONG-term runtime test done for FLR. If that is the case, the light would rarely run long enough to build up heat and self-regulate to 50%. This leads me to think that if I used the light in this manner, the emitter would almost always be running higher output than FLR's test, thus the batteries would last substantially less time than that graph. Seem reasonable?

On the other hand...the batteries may self-charge a bit between usages, which may counteract this (if ever so slightly)...

Does any of this sound right, or am I way off-base? I have plenty of other lights I plan to all-out mod later, but I'd like to try the M*G brand drop-in out of curiosity in this one....

Thoughts would be appreciated...

Thanks!!

~~Mike

Brighteyez · Mar 7, 2007

I'd be inclined to suggest just getting a 3D MagLED, since the 4 cell bulb tends to be not quite as bright (I observed the same thing as was reported on the FLR site.) Insofar as the notorious highly touted "issue" with the heat, first of all it seems to be inherent in all of the drop in modules, not just the Mag, but since it is made by Mag, it has to flagged as a "design flaw" because Mag was the only company that made any effort to manage the heat. So, all in all, you might want to consider that part of it with the proverbial grain of salt.

Now getting to the actual issue of the module dimming because of the heat, it's really not as noticable as it might seem. And you're right, in real-world usage, you probably won't have the light on long enough for the heat management to kick in.

On the subject of battery discharge ... if you're a normal person, using this light for "around the house stuff", chances are that you probably won't exhaust the batteries at all. But that having been said, you should probably replace the batteries about once a year, just so that they don't get a chance to develop a leak and corrode the insides of your Mag. (you might not need to replace the batteries once a year, but if you use that as a guideline and miss a year, you'll probably still be safe

).

KentuckyMike said:
Hey everyone,

I have a 4D M*G that I'm wanting to transition to LED. This would be an around-the-house light for power outages (and possibly a last-ditch baton...). ;-) Because of the cost and run-time (and the anticipated usage of this light), I have decided on the M*G-brand drop-in for this one. Per the runtime graph on FLR.com, it drops to ~50% within minutes, but then stays steadily regulated at that level for over 40 hours. Clearly from the graph, the drop is due to a quick build up of heat, which causes the module to drop the output.

Now here's my question...if I were to use the light as an all-around light (i.e. 1 minute here, two minutes there, 10 minutes there), it stands to reason that the light wouldn't build and maintain heat like it would under the LONG-term runtime test done for FLR. If that is the case, the light would rarely run long enough to build up heat and self-regulate to 50%. This leads me to think that if I used the light in this manner, the emitter would almost always be running higher output than FLR's test, thus the batteries would last substantially less time than that graph. Seem reasonable?

On the other hand...the batteries may self-charge a bit between usages, which may counteract this (if ever so slightly)...

Does any of this sound right, or am I way off-base? I have plenty of other lights I plan to all-out mod later, but I'd like to try the M*G brand drop-in out of curiosity in this one....

Thoughts would be appreciated...

Thanks!!

~~Mike

carbine15 · Mar 7, 2007

I don't recommend using a 3-D module in a 4D light for long runtimes. You are likely to cause damage to the emitter or the circuitry. Self discharge of alkaline D cells will be negligible over the course of anything less than 1 year. When it comes time to do a real mod on this mag, you can use the circuitry from the module and use a hotlips and one of the newer emitters like the Cree for increased brightness.

Brighteyez · Mar 7, 2007

Sorry, I meant a 3D Mag LED light, the whole assembly, not a 3 cell module in a 4 cell body.

carbine15 said:
I don't recommend using a 3-D module in a 4D light for long runtimes. You are likely to cause damage to the emitter or the circuitry. Self discharge of alkaline D cells will be negligible over the course of anything less than 1 year. When it comes time to do a real mod on this mag, you can use the circuitry from the module and use a hotlips and one of the newer emitters like the Cree for increased brightness.

carbine15 · Mar 7, 2007

NO! Don't give M@g any more money! If he's already got a 4-D light, use that. There is no perceptible difference between the 3 cell and 4 cell modules as far as brightness is concerned (to my eye). There is a perceivable brightness difference between the 2 cell and 3-4 cell modules though. I think for now he'll be plenty happy with the 4 cell drop in module Better yet, for the same money, it looks like he could get right to his mag mod. Instead of spending $20 on a drop in, you could get a hotlips o-sink, a cree emitter and a 1ohm resistor and follow these instructions.

...4D cell Magmodding...

Brighteyez · Mar 7, 2007

That's certainly understandable that some people may not see any difference, while for others the difference is clearly apparent. At the same time, it may not be all black and white, as there is quite a bit of variation in the tints in the Mag modules.

As far a Mag bashing goes, I really don't see the purpose that others on this site may see in it. so forgive me if I don't understand whether it is hostility or just jumping on the bandwagon.

carbine15 said:
There is no perceptible difference between the 3 cell and 4 cell modules as far as brightness is concerned (to my eye).

carbine15 · Mar 7, 2007

Brighteyez said:
That's certainly understandable that some people may not see any difference, while for others the difference is clearly apparent. At the same time, it may not be all black and white, as there is quite a bit of variation in the tints in the Mag modules.

As far a Mag bashing goes, I really don't see the purpose that others on this site may see in it. so forgive me if I don't understand whether it is hostility or just jumping on the bandwagon.

Mag industries and their lawers know what they did to ARC and other innovators. This thread isn't about M@g bashing...its about helping KentuckyMike get the best and brightest for his buck. Since he's planning on doing a mag mod anyway, I think he should just skip the module and go straight to the good stuff.

Lobo · Mar 7, 2007

A bit of thread jacking here, but regarding the output drop in MagLEDs after 10 minutes. Is this something that is built in to the luxeon LED, that it drops output when the light gets too hot, or is this something Mag put in their drop in? And is the MagLED dropin the only one who has this safety feature? Or does all Mag dropins(from other manufacturers) drop in output due to too much heat?

Brighteyez · Mar 7, 2007

Yeah, I've seen the whining. I think a lot of it was still going on when I started lurking here several years ago. As I understand it, a lot of people here find it reprehensible that Mag Instruments exercises due diligence to protect their intellectual property. It is to my understanding that people feel that Mag does not have that right when it comes to CPF members.

It was indeed the suggestion that he consider the 3 cell rather than the 4 cell because more documented tests seem to give the edge to the 3 cell version for output. Personally I tried a 4D MagLED, but returned it since the output level was noticably less, and after handling lights the size of a 3D for decades, the 4 cell just didn't feel right.

On the other hand, if the OP doesn't want to buy another light (he should have that option to decide, it should not be dictated to him) then the 4 cell module would certainly be an improvement over the output quality of the incandescent.

carbine15 said:
Mag industries and their lawers know what they did to ARC and other innovators. This thread isn't about M@g bashing...its about helping KentuckyMike get the best and brightest for his buck. Since he's planning on doing a mag mod anyway, I think he should just skip the module and go straight to the good stuff.

Brighteyez · Mar 7, 2007

Take a look at the output graphs of the other drop-in modules that are reviewed over at FLR. They all drop as they get hot, the difference was that Mag appears to have added circuitry to the module so that it will reduce the level of heat generated. The direct driven modules drop it output because the level of heat is causing a loss of efficiency. That's probably why you used to see posts from people who were saying that their Diamond or Terralux modules had burned out; I don't think we've seen much of that with the Mag module (I suppose one could even risk being accused of being a Mag supporter if one were to postulate that the addition of that engineering may have contributed to the delay of Mag's entry into the LED market.)

Lobo said:
A bit of thread jacking here, but regarding the output drop in MagLEDs after 10 minutes. Is this something that is built in to the luxeon LED, that it drops output when the light gets too hot, or is this something Mag put in their drop in? And is the MagLED dropin the only one who has this safety feature? Or does all Mag dropins(from other manufacturers) drop in output due to too much heat?

MattK · Mar 7, 2007

Mike,

Have you see this? LINK

Lobo · Mar 7, 2007

Brighteyez said:
Take a look at the output graphs of the other drop-in modules that are reviewed over at FLR. They all drop as they get hot, the difference was that Mag appears to have added circuitry to the module so that it will reduce the level of heat generated. The direct driven modules drop it output because the level of heat is causing a loss of efficiency. That's probably why you used to see posts from people who were saying that their Diamond or Terralux modules had burned out; I don't think we've seen much of that with the Mag module (I suppose one could even risk being accused of being a Mag supporter if one were to postulate that the addition of that engineering may have contributed to the delay of Mag's entry into the LED market.)

So basically all the dropins will drop in output, but due to different reasons? Mag due to the circuitry, and the direct driven due to the LED getting hot? Guess what I wanted to know was if there were some kind of thermal management built in to Luxeon LEDs, but you're saying that the direct driven leds drop in output due to efficiency, and will still burn out?

qip · Mar 7, 2007

the diamond & terralux modules with regulators dont have heat issues such as the module pointed out by mattk and i think if i read correctly in newbies thread the initial current the mag module pulls is about an amp which is guarranteed to give you heat ,by the time that mag capsule gets hot it will drop the current down and less output

carbine15 · Mar 8, 2007

Political discussions aside..

, it's not worth it for Mike to buy a new light just so he can use a 3-cell module for added brightness. Best bang for the buck in his case is either a drop-in module with it's heat dissipation limits or better yet, a 4cell magmod like this one... especially since he was going to mod it anyway. Hey Mike... whatever you decide we'd love to know about it. Maybe include some pictures before and after? In a few weeks I'll be getting more glass lenses. I'll send you one for a couple bucks if you want.

chesterqw · Mar 8, 2007

buy th magnum star xenon bulb for 4 cell.

running on 4 D cells, it has some nice throw and brightness.

and it is white too!( of course, it lasted only a few mins before it becomes yellower but still better then stock bulb)

M*G LED (4D) DROP-IN

KentuckyMike

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Brighteyez

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carbine15

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Brighteyez

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carbine15

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