M1 hunter with 2 3.6V 16340s?? Will it work?

reltor · Mar 11, 2007

I am wondering if this would work I have the Tenergy TL-100 charger which does not completely charge regular rcr123 batteries since their voltage is too low. I am wondering about 2 of these
http://www.batteryspace.com/browseproducts/Li-Ion-3.6V-650mAh-Rechargeable-RCR123A-battery-----Industrial-only.html

What would happen with the extra 1.2V over two cr123s???

Thanks

cratz2 · Mar 12, 2007

16340s are just another name for R123 cells. They will work fine with the M1 according to Batteryjunction, but with less runtime.

Considerably less runtime... I'd consider using a single 18650 vs two R123 cells. Just a slight decrease in brightness and regulation, but much longer runtime to 50%.

reltor · Mar 12, 2007

The 16340's from batteryspace that I posted are not the same as regular rcr123s. The voltage is different 3.7v per batt vs. 3.0V. This is why batteryjunction says not to use the Tenergy TL-100 18650 charger with rcr123s even though they will fit. Batteryspace has the industrial 3.7V 16340s which would work with this charger.

My question is what would they do in the light with the higher voltage, which would probably be over 8V fully charged.

Thanks

MattK · Mar 12, 2007

I believe they'll work fine and charge in the TL-100 but do not recommend it as a consumer safe solution.

The 18650 protected cells are the way to go IMO - far more runtime, ~2 x the watt-hours.

2xTrinity · Mar 12, 2007

MattK said:
I believe they'll work fine and charge in the TL-100 but do not recommend it as a consumer safe solution.

The 18650 protected cells are the way to go IMO - far more runtime, ~2 x the watt-hours.

Runtime is about a 4 to 1 difference I believe. I do think it's a nice option though to be able to drop in 2 CR123s and have maximum brightness, regulated, and an 18650 for backup -- especially if you know you only need the light for 30 minutes straight or so. I suspect the severe difference in runtime is because the regulator is less efficient the further apart the input voltage is from the output voltage (meaning it has more "converting" to do). Another thing is that output gradually decreases once the 18650 drops below 3.7V, so runtime to 50% is longer becuase the average brightness/power consumption is lower. Note I'm not trying to disagree at all -- just adding to what you said.

patycake57 · Mar 12, 2007

My recollection is that the 2 x 3.7V RCR123 is fine for the M1, but don't use the 2 stage tailcap because it will get too hot.

FlashKat · Mar 12, 2007

Nobody really answered his question as far as can the M1 take the higher voltage of 8.4v with these batteries without blowing the CREE or the circuit? The specifications I have read all state using RCR123 but does not define 3.0v or 3.7v which makes a difference in most flashlights.

reltor said:
The 16340's from batteryspace that I posted are not the same as regular rcr123s. The voltage is different 3.7v per batt vs. 3.0V. This is why batteryjunction says not to use the Tenergy TL-100 18650 charger with rcr123s even though they will fit. Batteryspace has the industrial 3.7V 16340s which would work with this charger.

My question is what would they do in the light with the higher voltage, which would probably be over 8V fully charged.

Thanks

MattK · Mar 12, 2007

2xTrinity - More info is always good - I rarely try to predict runtimes on regulated lights because it's nearly impossible to calculate for driver efficiency etc without ALL of the data. I suspect you're right regarding the 4:1 time difference - I went with Wh because it was an absolute I could comfortably state.

reltor · Mar 12, 2007

I just wanted to be able to use the 18650 charger that I have with a 123 sized battery for the exact reasons you specify, namely, full brightness and regulation.

I use 18650's and they work great. I would just like to see full brightness with rechargeables.

So you are implying that if I use my TL-100 with 900mAH rcr123s I should observe them charge, check them for heat, and pull them after..say 3hrs?

Thanks

reltor · Mar 12, 2007

FlashKat said:
Nobody really answered his question as far as can the M1 take the higher voltage of 8.4v with these batteries without blowing the CREE or the circuit? The specifications I have read all state using RCR123 but does not define 3.0v or 3.7v which makes a difference in most flashlights.

Exactly what I was originally wondering myself, but if I can charge the 900mAH 3.V variety in my charger it is a moot point.

MattK · Mar 12, 2007

Are the RCR123A's 3V or 3.7V?
If they're 3V keep them away from the TL-100 IMO - it's running more than a volt above their spec charge voltage.

If they're 3.7V and unprotected the usual rules apply for charging unprotected lithium; not unattended, not on a flammable surface.

cratz2 · Mar 13, 2007

RCR123s and 16340s are 3.7-4.2 devices unless freaky internal stuff is done to them to 'get them to work with incand bulbs' which they will often stil fry.

The 3.0V cells aren't really accepted universally as safe, all around, effecient power sources.

Obviously I can't speak as gospel, but when a manufacturer or reseller says a light will work with an 'RCR123' or a '16340', they are referring to the 3.7V cells that come off the charger at 4.2V.

I don't have an M1 yet, but looking at the runtime charts of the M1 on the primary CR123As and the 18650, I'd imagine runtime would not be stunningly pretty with the R123s. If you already have the charger for an 18650, that really seems like a very decent option.

I know some folks get really hung up on 'full brightness' and 'flat regulation', and those are both obviously admirable qualities in a flashlight. But when you can sacrifice 10% of brightness and throw to gain 200% or 300% runtime, that just seems like a really decent tradeoff to me.

FlashKat · Mar 13, 2007

www.batteryspace.com refers both of the 3.0v & 3.6v as RCR123 batteries where I have blownout flashlights using the 3.6v RCR123 batteries. I also use the 3.0v RCR123 batteries for my incandescent lights where the 3.6v batteries will blowout the bulb. The M1 description does not specify RCR123 3.6v batteries. It just mentions CR123, RCR123, and 18650, so who pays if he blows out the LED if it is not compatible?

cratz2 said:
RCR123s and 16340s are 3.7-4.2 devices unless freaky internal stuff is done to them to 'get them to work with incand bulbs' which they will often stil fry.

The 3.0V cells aren't really accepted universally as safe, all around, effecient power sources.

Obviously I can't speak as gospel, but when a manufacturer or reseller says a light will work with an 'RCR123' or a '16340', they are referring to the 3.7V cells that come off the charger at 4.2V.

I don't have an M1 yet, but looking at the runtime charts of the M1 on the primary CR123As and the 18650, I'd imagine runtime would not be stunningly pretty with the R123s. If you already have the charger for an 18650, that really seems like a very decent option.

I know some folks get really hung up on 'full brightness' and 'flat regulation', and those are both obviously admirable qualities in a flashlight. But when you can sacrifice 10% of brightness and throw to gain 200% or 300% runtime, that just seems like a really decent tradeoff to me.

reltor · Mar 14, 2007

Right, I don't want to blow out the light using two of the 3.6V industrial rcr123 on batterspace.

Apparently these are the only ones that are safe to charge in the Tenergy TL-100 combo charger that also charges 18650's.

If anyone has any experience with these batteries (3.6V) in the Cree M1 Hunter let me know. Otherwise if I want to use rechargables I would have to go with a different charger.

heliyardsale · Mar 14, 2007

FlashKat said:
Nobody really answered his question as far as can the M1 take the higher voltage of 8.4v with these batteries without blowing the CREE or the circuit? The specifications I have read all state using RCR123 but does not define 3.0v or 3.7v which makes a difference in most flashlights.

I've run them in mine with no problems... 3.7 x 2 really didn't make the light any brighter though, at least in my M1... I like the 18650, its not quite as bright but the long run times are really nice...
Heli

FlashKat · Mar 14, 2007

heliyardsale,

Thanks for finally clearing up the answer to the simple question we needed to know.

heliyardsale said:
I've run them in mine with no problems... 3.7 x 2 really didn't make the light any brighter though, at least in my M1... I like the 18650, its not quite as bright but the long run times are really nice...
Heli

reltor · Mar 14, 2007

FlashKat said:
heliyardsale,

Thanks for finally clearing up the answer to the simple question we needed to know.

+1

M1 hunter with 2 3.6V 16340s?? Will it work?

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