Arc-AA?

Many CPF'ers and Arc customers have asked for a AA version of the Arc-AAA since day one of the Arc company. Some have even made mods to the Arc-AAA so a AA cell could be used. I have read all the emails you've sent about the many advantages the Arc-AAA would have. Several topics here on the CPF have tackled this very subject.

Honestly, I haven't always been a big fan of the Arc-AA design but I have eventually changed my mind. I figured one day I would make the Arc-AA but it would be probally next year before we could do it. I just love working on new designs and improvements however, R&D takes a lot of time and money. Our investers don't like it when I take our meager profits and spend them all on new designs.

So what prompted a sooner revisit of this topic? TTS gave me a call and said he was getting more than a few requests for the Arc-AA and wanted an update on its release. I told him, "next year. "
He said, "Why?"
"We can't spend the money or time on another project."
"What would it take?"
"A big order."
"I might do that."
"Really? Hmmm"

The Arc-AA Design:
Single AA cell, same design style as Arc-AAA, single 5mm LED, HA finish, chemkote interior, anti-rattle retainer, waterproof to 10 or more feet, slightly brighter than the Arc-AAA, run time of about 10+ hours, converter/regulator, etc.

Finish: "natural" (same as LE)
Status: Standard product (not limited run)
Cost: don't know yet but probally close to $40
LED colors: At first only white, turquiose, UV and red. Others later if demand warrants.
Packaging: Arc trademark ziplock (yippee!)
No battery included.
Distribution: TTS, Arc website and other dealers.

Note: This is just an idea being tossed around, TTS hasn't placed an order and we haven't begun production.

Would you buy something like this? What kind of demand is there for the Arc-AA?

Peter Gransee

I would buy several...show me where I can get on the waiting list!!!

Sounds like a winner to me.

William can certainly order one up for me! You know I'll have to buy one, no reason to ask...

Anybody need some Infinities?

The only thing I would beg for (and I'll apologize now if this thread suddenly becomes another "future designs" list) is a dimmer! Let me choose between 40-hour brightness and ten hour brightness. PLEASE. The switch could even be something that is only accessible by removing the head. What do I care? I already have to swap batteries to dim my Arcs now. Opening them up to throw the switch works for me, and doesn't compromise the exterior durability or waterproofness a bit.

But, I'll also buy one (or ten) in the configuration you mention too...

I am curious as to why the list price would be so much more than for the AAA though. Everything else being equal, it is just a bit more material, no? They shouldn't require any more labor, nor any new electronic magic that I can see...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
William can certainly order one up for me! You know I'll have to buy one, no reason to ask...

Anybody need some Infinities?

The only thing I would beg for (and I'll apologize now if this thread suddenly becomes another "future designs" list) is a dimmer! Let me choose between 40-hour brightness and ten hour brightness. PLEASE. The switch could even be something that is only accessible by removing the head. What do I care? I already have to swap batteries to dim my Arcs now. Opening them up to throw the switch works for me, and doesn't compromise the exterior durability or waterproofness a bit.

But, I'll also buy one (or ten) in the configuration you mention too...

I am curious as to why the list price would be so much more than for the AAA though. Everything else being equal, it is just a bit more material, no? They shouldn't require any more labor, nor any new electronic magic that I can see...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Darell, the cost is an estimate. Hopfully a high one. We use the same margin on all of our products. The exception to that rule is the new LS pricing which was designed to give us more time.

Extra costs would include material, machine time, R&D costs (protos, testing, engineering charges), higher unit cost due to smaller production runs (compared to the Arc-AAA), PCB designs, o-ring/retainer selection, custom anodize masking fixtures, other fixtures and jigs for production, gremlin costs, etc. Also a new design requires a certain investment from us to purchase a minimum lot size of components. We would also have to train the assemblers on the new assemblies.

If the design gets too complicated then we have do it later because we already have a complicated design on the board (and it has been taking forever). A dimmer would require a different circuit, PCB, housing style, spring, switch research and the list goes on... We can do it, just not this year.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but this is the cold hard realities we live in. I try to bend them all time, but even I must admit that we have to keep the design as simple as possible this time around.

We haven't even decided to make them yet. I would love to, but the numbers have to be there first.

I tell you, if we did release this, we wouldn't start taking orders so quickly compared to past offerings. I just know that we would have problems with getting the custom made anodize fixtures just right and machine surfaces perfect so that different brands of batteries worked, threads where smooth, o-ring was just right, etc. By minimizing how hog wild I go on adding features, we might be able to offer this in a matter of months.

One other thing, existing products like the Arc-LS take priority over new projects. We would use spare cycles for this project only.

So, I think I covered all the negatives, still interesting in taking the plunge?

Peter Gransee

Peter,
IMHO, this would not be an improvement over what you already have. I love the size of the AAA, but I'ld definately buy one (at least one) anyway. TX

I want one - I've been tempted to mod a arc-AAA to use the AA ( an infinity case with the arc-AAA head?) . My vote would be for a turquiose (since thats the brightest) with the same brightness as the AAA model but a ~15 hour run time. Rechargables would then run ~10 hours. That would be great for the outdoors - no need for lots of extra batteries (or bulbs) on the trail. It would be a backpackers dream! It would simply always work. Keep it simple - get it out the door.

Count me in, too, Peter. I want a couple.

YES!!!!!

I think it is a good idea.I don't care what you build as long as it says ARC on it. I need one!

I would not get one. The Arc-AAA has all the runtime I need, and its smaller size/weight (and lower cost!) is a big advantage.

I would be interested if the AA were much brighter than the AAA, but i'd imagine that that would require two LEDs.

(still waiting for the Arc-GLS)

I'd definately take a couple. When I first started looking for a single battey light, I was rather tempted to go with the Infinity because of the AA battery. I would very much like to have a lithium AA light with a long burn time.

At the time I couldn't find an Arc AA on the website and I was disappointed to learn that they didn't exist. That's my only remaining infatuation with the Infinity. The Arc beam quality and all the other things that make Arc what it is would absolutely move me to buy a couple, if not more.

I'd get one.

If they have www.candlepowerforums.com on the package I'd get one for each family member for Christmas.

David,
Since the packageing will be the original ARC ziplock, it'll have anything on it you want to wright on it. TX

Yes, I want one .. probably more than one. I wanted Arc-AAA brightness in a light that uses the same battery as my GPS. When? Can you start an email list to make sure we all know when they come out? Summer is coming and I probably won't be browsing the board so much.

David - I've got a Sharpie™ with your name on it right here...

Peter - Like I already said, you can count me in for the AA, regardless of how simple. It'll be a great, useful light, just like the AAA. I just always hope for that dimmer!

Can

Not

Resist.


Ya, I would buy one in a flash. Really.

Just make sure that baby can take a Lithium.

When can we expect some ARC LS Firsts?

I'm with Darrell. Quick twist on/off dimmer switch will make AAA and AA MUCH better flashlights. Since this feature would be built into the electronics in the head, it doesn't seem like it would make assembly any more complicated for your workers, either.

Peter:

I keep 3 Arc AAA's next to each other on my key ring. They don't feel overly large and awkward in my pocket. If I light all three and hold them together the approximate diameter = the diameter of My Arc LS second.

Thus, the combined perceived bulk of the three is roughly = to an Arc LS with one of the single battery packs and only slightly more than an Arc AA would be.

I can choose between the brightness of 1, 2, or 3 LEDs with this setup. If I choose to turn only one on at a time, the set of three provides me with the same 10 hours run time a single, less flexible Arc AA would give me.

Although I've had many regular Alkaline leak in neglected flashlights over the decades, I've never had a leaky Ray-o-Vac Rechargeable (or leak legacy "Renewables" for that matter -- some of my old Renewables still work well enough to keep).

Accordingly, it's no beg deal to swap and recharge my rechargeable alkaline AAA's whenever they are slightly discharged.

If I'm walking and the three Arcs aren't enough, I can easily and comfortably hold the three Arc AAA's in the same hand with either my Arc LS or My Inova X5. I've become adept at spreading the 3 Arc AAA's to give me a brighter wide angle view.

If that's still not enough, I can put either the Arc LS or the X5 into my NiteIze head band as a headlamp.

The headband becomes my high beam lights.
The Arc AAA's become my fog lights.
The X5 or Arc LS in my hand become my low beam.
My PT Impact becomes my searchlight if I need throw that's not so bright as to obscure my LED wide field illumination.

(There's a project for you: Make the LS equivalent of the PT Impact. I could hold the Arc LS next to the Arc LS Impact!)

If I'm in a reasonably lit area I'll use my E2, Scorpion, or Legend LX in order to illuminate my target significantly brighter than the background.

If I need 10 hours of relatively bright light, that's what the X5 is for. Given the cost of 123's, the X5 is likely to be held in reserve

I personally would not benefit from an Arc AA. Three Arc AA's on a key ring would be awkward. Three Arc AA's turned on in my hand along with either the Arc LS or the X5 would not be comfortable or as angularly tunable as my current arrangement.

The black is gradually disappearing from the back of my Arc AAA's given my useage. You know what? I like the used look. The knurling hasn't been damaged with all the metal to metal contact.

Well shoot. I was hoping at least something official looking could be thrown in the ziplock. Will it be an official "ARC sharpie"?