Double ended ARC LS (123)

Hello Peter,
It seems that quite a few members here have more than one color LS in their quivers. Would you consider making a double ended 123 battery holder. By this I mean 2 of your current 123 holders basically connected at their tail end. The holder would contain two 123 batteries so a LS head could be attached functionally at each end. I realize that this would require a second operation in machining but the milling for lanyard operation could be omitted. I have no idea how the volume for interest would compare to the volume required for a cost effective run.

An additional SKU which would require a new design would be a dummy cap that would replace a LS head and essentially convert one end of this doubled ended holder into a spare battery compartment for the LS.

From the outside looking in, this proposition would seem to require little mechanical engineering time and resources and and no elctronic engineering time. I assume that if the demand for these units was in keeping with the required minimum run of parts that this would be a viable part. Perhaps it could displace the single AA holder if that part sees little use in the real world as I have sensed at least here in the forum.
With nothing but respect and admiration, I await your responce and a no responce would be understood and accepted as well.

- Don

Thanks Don. I like your attention to detail in your suggestion. Especially in the manufacturing aspect (which is usally more complicated than the product itself).

I am giving your idea some thought:

The dummy cap would have to be fairly deep because the battery protrudes a good .350" from the thread.

Custom anodizing masking fixtures would be needed for this pack since it has the rear threads. It would also require an O-ring and testing for waterproofing.

Having too many power pack variations can slow down production (a big problem for us to fix this year). I have about 8 power packs on the drawing board but I am going to have to reduce that to half (or less) if we are ever going to get caught up with our backorders.

Let me take another wack at explaining this further: Yes, R&D does slow down the arrival of new designs, but too many variations slows down the production. And that is a bigger problem for us right now. Notice how we have been making LSs since January of this year but we are still struggling to make enough of them. The reason we are waiting right this very minute on shipping the firsts is that we don't have enough battery packs of sufficient quality to provide complete kits for each order. We will stop offering kits in the future and sell the light with a default pack (to be determined, but it will probaly be the 123 pack for the 1W size).

Not sure how many people, if they had a choice, would carry a siamese pack or a similiar sized but brighter 2,123 in series pack? One provides more white light, the other provides less but with a second color. If I could only make one pack, I would like to err on the side of more light.

Maybe this is a project for the mod craftsmen? It is a small volume idea with good machining challenges so it fits the description. Mods won't do any good though if we don't ship the light in sufficient quantity.

Of all the power packs I have to choose from, most will be put on hold. The ones that will be made are the ones that have been deemed absolutely essential.

Right now we have three packs:

1 AA
2 AA
1 123

To this list, I will add probally only one other pack. The 1AA pack will go into limited production. The default pack will be the 123. 2 other packs are being considered for later limited production because they offer broad appeal (more light!). That brings the total to:

Default packs (head unit includes one of these)
1, 123
n, TBA

Popular pack (accessory w/good availability)
2, AA

Limited production (higher priced, harder to find)
1, AA
n, TBA
n, TBD

The idea here is to reduce delays while maximizing value.

Peter Gransee

Peter,
Thanks for the response, insight and explainations. I didn't realize that the HA was such a bottle neck. I had wondered about the masking for anodize and asumed this was due to electrical resistance of surface contact if the part were completely anodized?
Coming from a marine background, I understand that there are some alloys ( I think in the 5000 or 7000 series) that have superior corrosion resistance and don't necessarily need to be anodized. Of course a bright silver finish probably wouldn't be acceptable to the market. Incidentally, it would appear that the interior of your parts has a different anodizing that looks like irridite or something. It must be a real strain on your sense of humor to make perfect parts and have the damn color keep you from shipping on demand!

You mentioned a brighter light with 2 1123's. It seems you opened a whole new can of worms with this coment

Thanks again for your time and we aplaud you for your candor and receptive nature.

Another thought:
I have used a domestic machine shop who works primarily with brass. They prefer machining brass to aluminum. The CPF crowd here sure likes the brass AAA lights! What about a brass battery holder as an option? There would be no anodizing issues and I assume in most cases the disimilar metals wouldn't be to much of a galvanic corrosion issue; especially if some type of proctectant were applied (did you receive the Lanocote sample BTW?).

I know that my source prefers to quote a minimum run of 1000 pieces which is not a trivial number, especially for something possibly so esoteric. (a bright polished brass would contrast nicely with the HA color of the LS head IMHO)

Personally, I have no problem with making my own mods for myself but I would not consider offering any type of aftermarket part that cut into the possible sales of the prime manufacturer and their offering. Legalities aside, as I wouldn't want someone to piggy back on something I made and sold, cutting into my sales I would not consider doing it to someone else. (The Golden Rule which many of today's youth haven't even heard before!)

Thanks again and we anxiously await your TBA and TBD SKU's

- Don

Just thought I'd throw in a little support for McGizmo's amphilux idea.

Given the choice betweeen a brighter double 123 light, or a double ended, two single 123 light (particularly one with different light intensities at each end), I'd prefer the latter. Not by a lot, since I'd love to see the first one produced by Arc too...

...but a double ended, two intensity light would fill a unique niche, provide the equivalent of a dimmer, *and* a backup battery. A winner all around, except perhaps for size/weight issues. Still not a bad idea if you used different colors instead of different light intensity, but not quite as useful.

I almost suggested something similar awhile back for the Arc AAA light, with an Infinity bright LED at the back end, but figured the circuitry would be a pain (I was assuming just one battery).

As a modder, I'd like to throw my 2 cents in.
I'd be happy to provide a custom battery pack, either two single 123s butted together at the middle, or even variations on this, such as a single or double AA pack at one end, and a 123 at the other, for example. Naturally, I would provide a cap for the other end (non-conductive).

I could make it in Al, brass or stainless steel, whichever you choose. I can't get the Al anodized (expensive minimums), but the brass would look nice, and the stainless would be nigh indestructable.

As for the Arc-LS at one end, and the Arc-AAA at the other, I think I could come up with something not too long that would do the trick. In fact, I could make it using the double-ended 123 pack, with an adapter for the AAA head on one end and the LS head on the other end. Switch 'em around when the battery for the LS is low, then the low cell would run the smaller head for awhile...

Sorry about the rambling, as I just brainstormed this as I went... Please let me know what you think, as I plan to offer custom-turned flashlight bodies in the near future, and want some feedback as to interest, etc.

I have produced a 1 C-cell and a 1 D-cell holder for JonSidneyB, which he will be receiving shortly, and I will be posting pictures, as soon as I figure out how. I've been saying that for a couple of weeks, but really, I'm working on it!

Well, I made a brass double ended 123 holder that accepts LS heads:





One of the LS heads will be replaced with a brass spare battery cap containing a single LED. That is if I can make it :0
The center groove is for future lanyard.

Don,

You will always have a place to stay here on Oahu...I just need one of those!!!!! PLEASE!!!!

Please e-mail me with the price!!!!

Your pal from the Islands...

Brian

Big Honu,
Mahalo.
With my primative equipment, these things take me way too long to make to consider doing any kind of limited production. DSpeck has offered to provide custom holders above so you might want to contact him. Peter said he was going to think about this which may have been a nice way letting the idea off easily but you never know.
I want to at least attempt to make an additional part for this system as I stated above. When I'm done with these self imposed challanges, if you have not been able to get a holder by other means, I will sell you this one with my labor rate discounted to going fast food employee level.

- Don

Those look good Don and I encourage you to make more for any CPF'er who wants one.

The brass creates a very nice accent with the HA.

Peter

Darth Maul would be envious!

Oh man. What *are* fast-food employees making these days? Way more than a father, I'm willing to bet.

I'd offer you infinitely more than my hourly wage for the unit with the single LED on one end!

That is so cool! If you made a screw on cap, it would make a nice spares carrier.

And brass! You should be that baby up for auction.

Finally, Peter took the words right out of my mouth! When I saw your pics, Darth Maul immediately came to my mind.

Wow!

Thanks Peter.

I just learned some valuable lessons here.

1) not only are you a savy manufacturer with great product, you are a master at deflection and way to clever for the likes of me

2) An unsolicited idea that I left at your doorstep; I suddenly find on my doorstep with a nice bow attached. Further, contemplating your suggestion that I make more of these really drives home how it feels to have unwanted production suggestions offered up. I don't even have to make more of these parts for the lesson to take hold. In the future, I guess I better keep my ideas and mods to myself and not offer them up as back seat driving suggestions

Hopefully DSpeck can step up to the plate on this one. I better confine myself to the cafe and see if I can keep Darell on topic.

OK.
Humbled dummy asks:
"Who Darth Maul?"

DSpeck, where are you?

Don,

I had to ask, but thanks anyway! That holder is truly a work of art.

Aloha

Brian


Edited to add:

Dspeck,

If you can turn these parts for the CPF family,that would be great!!

Don,

Darth Maul was one of the bad guys in "The Phantom Menace". He had a double ended light-saber.

Wow, lots of traffic on this one! I only usually check the forum at night, so I don't always respond immediately...

Anyway, I have a couple of observations: I would like to offer something like this to those interested people on the CPF. Can I get an idea of how many folks would be interested? This would tell me how much I have to prepare tooling, etc.

McGizmo: Some good ideas, there. I think it would be faster for me to just make a custom reamer for the compartment, which would leave a button on the bottom of the holder. The lanyard ring is a good idea, I hadn't considered that. As for the cool idea re: the LOTC, not bad at all. It would be fairly expensive to produce, since I'm just doing these one at a time on my manual lathe at home after work...

The double-ended holder could be done relativly quickly, but the LOTC would not be a regular feature. However, the idea of having a single 5mm LED on the opposite end from the LS is VERY cool, and if someone would build me a regulated insert disc w/LED I could incorporate simply into the design (press into the head), I'd be more than happy to do some bartering for services...work for work...anyone?

How does a hexagonal body for this puppy sound? I can pick up some hex stock readily, and it would have the anti-roll feature...

In your posts, please indicate whether you'd want this in brass or Aluminum, and round or hexagonal. Due to the material cost, the brass would have to be a little more expensive (a few bucks).

DSpeck,

If you go for this, I'd like to offer some design observations/ considerations:

In lieu of making a custom boring tool for leaving the raised button in the bottom of the battery holder, I drilled a 1/4" hole through the common partition. This leaves you with some cool options:

1) for simplicity sake, I knurled a 1/4" brass dowel and centered it in the partition with raised nubs exposed in each end (press fit due to knurl)
2) a more complicated but clean alternative would be to make two buttons with a shoulder that could just rest in the hole at the bottom of each battery holder.
3) if the hole is left available for other options as in the case of drop in inserts described above, there is one pretty neat additional morph available: A spare battery cap could be made with a bore seal, metal button on the end of the cap. In the spare side of the battery housing, you could insert a spring and shouldered plunger that would go between the spare battery and the internal partition. The plunger and spring would be such that unless forced by compression, the plunger would not pass through the partition enough to contact the bottom (-) pole of the active battery. By either screwing down the spare cap or pushsing the button on the end, the plunger would contact the (-) pole and cause the light to light. This configuration would give you both a spare battery and an elegant LOTC. The button could be recessed within the tail cap so the light could be stood on end. Obviously a non conducting pressure plate would need to be in the assembly between the (+) pole of the spare and the tail cap button.

I hope I have been clear on these ideas and that you receive them in an open and friendly manner with which I mean to convey.

- Don

DSpeck,
I don't know if this is a dead horse or if you have been contacted outside the forum about this holder. I completed a spare battery cap with single LED (Techass PR2) as was suggested by JollyRoger in another thread.

It's alot of brass and would probably double as a brass knuckle. Anyway, pic's below:







The PR2 LED bulb was an excellent call and gives a very nice wide angle fill of light.
- Don

That is very nice indeed!

YC

Thanks YCLO,
Photo of Brass Candle below:



I ran out of time and energy last night and didn't add this photo.
The TechAss PR2 LED bulb without a parabolic reflector puts out an incredibly wide angle beam of light; ideal for close range full area illumination. This is a very useful light combined with the bright and tight beam of the Arc LS; IMHO. I need to find out if the PR2 is water proof on the front end. If not, clear epoxy can be poured in around the base of the fixture where the LED emerges without covering the LED lens itself. The rear end of the bulb as well as the battery chamber is protected by the two O-rings. I have compiled images and will add as more permutations develop on this series here.

I think there is some opportunity here for someone (DSpec). As I have stated before, I am not in a position to offer production, even limited of these items but I still feel there is some value in presenting the ideas. It is my understanding that this is one of the merits to this forum and I hope I have not offended anyone by sharing these ideas without following through and making them available as finished products for sale.

- Don