Root of Evil Bears Bitter Fruit

Sarius · Apr 9, 2007

Last Wednesday, Circuit City 'rewarded' their long term, loyal, and productive employees who had thus earned raises by laying them off without warning and replacing them with low paid new hires. The good news is that, after a 10 week layoff, they can apply to get their old jobs back at those lower wages. This was, of course, to improve their profits.

I find this despicable and feel that they've crossed a moral line that I can't support. I do read the financial press. This is being watched with considerable interest and if the company is rewarded with higher profits, this tactic will become common.

My own reaction is that while Circuit City had been my favored vendor for home electronics, I will no longer set foot in the store. I will also encourage everyone I know to make the same choice. The only feedback these people will understand is by voting with our dollars.

Whoever said that the 'love of money is the root of all evil' knew exactly what they were talking about. If we only made our decisions based on who's the cheapest regardless of how they got that way, we'll only have ourselves to blame for the world we leave to our children.

As a note to the moderators- I don't want to get into a lengthly discussion here. My intention is to call attention to this situation, encourage people to, if they wish, continue to get the word out, and then do as they feel is proper in response.

Thanks
-S

Lightmeup · Apr 9, 2007

No surprise here. Corporations exist to make profit, not be nice to people. Ethics are an afterthought. Welcome to what makes America what it is.

EngrPaul · Apr 9, 2007

Wow, Circuit City CEO Schoonover deserves a raise!

His piddly $1.4 million in salary and bonuses in fiscal 2006, plus 340,000 stock option shares and $96,929 in other compensation mostly related to use of a company jet is certainly not enough. Cold-hearted treatment of company employees should earn much more than that!

Jumpmaster · Apr 9, 2007

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=152301

BillCurnow · Apr 9, 2007

Sarius said:
Last Wednesday, Circuit City 'rewarded' their long term, loyal, and productive employees who had thus earned raises by laying them off without warning and replacing them with low paid new hires.

Circuit City announced their evil plans nearly two weeks ago giving their long-term, highest paid employees plenty of time to wonder if their necks were on the chopping block. While its a shame this is happening to them, the cold hard reality is that big-box electronics stores will close unless they are able to get a handle on their costs. Circuit City, Best Buy, CompUSA, all are destined for the scrap heap unless they can devise a better business model. Unless, of course, you're willing to pay 10% more for power-sucking gizmos...

Biker Bear · Apr 9, 2007

BillCurnow said:
Circuit City announced their evil plans nearly two weeks ago giving their long-term, highest paid employees plenty of time to wonder if their necks were on the chopping block. While its a shame this is happening to them, the cold hard reality is that big-box electronics stores will close unless they are able to get a handle on their costs. Circuit City, Best Buy, CompUSA, all are destined for the scrap heap unless they can devise a better business model. Unless, of course, you're willing to pay 10% more for power-sucking gizmos...

OK, fine - but who gave these workers the raises in the first place? Was someone holding a gun on CC's management and making them give raises?

What a bloody awful way to "reward" long-term employees who've shown loyalty to the company, and at very least have saved said company the cost of training new hires.

Even if we set all other concerns aside and say this was absolutely essential - why not explain the situation and offer those people the chance to keep their jobs at a lower rate of pay, rather than firing them, making them unemployed for 10 weeks and then "allowing" them to re-apply?

AndyTiedye · Apr 9, 2007

I couldn't do any less business with Circuit City than I already do (which is none at all).

BillCurnow · Apr 9, 2007

Biker Bear said:
What a bloody awful way to "reward" long-term employees who've shown loyalty to the company

Retail sales stopped being a viable career path years ago.

Biker Bear said:
and at very least have saved said company the cost of training new hires.

Please, Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart and Target don't train their employees beyond how to swipe a credit card, why would you think Circuit City was going to be any different?

Biker Bear said:
why not explain the situation and offer those people the chance to keep their jobs at a lower rate of pay, rather than firing them, making them unemployed for 10 weeks and then "allowing" them to re-apply?

The 90 days rule struck me as odd as well, but then I realized they were probably doing this to get around labor laws and unions (where applicable).

MarNav1 · Apr 9, 2007

Sarius said:
Last Wednesday, Circuit City 'rewarded' their long term, loyal, and productive employees who had thus earned raises by laying them off without warning and replacing them with low paid new hires. The good news is that, after a 10 week layoff, they can apply to get their old jobs back at those lower wages. This was, of course, to improve their profits.

I find this despicable and feel that they've crossed a moral line that I can't support. I do read the financial press. This is being watched with considerable interest and if the company is rewarded with higher profits, this tactic will become common.

My own reaction is that while Circuit City had been my favored vendor for home electronics, I will no longer set foot in the store. I will also encourage everyone I know to make the same choice. The only feedback these people will understand is by voting with our dollars.

As a note to the moderators- I don't want to get into a lengthly discussion here. My intention is to call attention to this situation, encourage people to, if they wish, continue to get the word out, and then do as they feel is proper in response.

Thanks Love of Money is found in 1 Timothy 6:9,10

tiktok 22 · Apr 10, 2007

I haven't stepped foot in the place in 2 years. In my neck of the woods, their selection is awful.

woodrow · Apr 10, 2007

In the early 1990's economist Paul Pilzner made the following statement. "If your company just gave out raises and you could not figure out how they did it, you might want to start looking for another job." This quote puzzled me at first, but now I understand it. Circuit City in my old town paid much better than Best Buy, but had way less trafic. I think that is the case in a lot of areas. I do feel bad for the people laid off, but you need to be able to look for the writing on the wall.

I had the same thing happen to me in the wireless phone industry several years ago. My company kept giving us sales people great bonuses and trips, but we were loosing our A.... as a company. Finally, I was offered a 65% paycut and chose to look for another job.

One big problem I see for the future is what I will call the 'Star Wars Effect' for lack of a better term. When I watched all the Star Wars movies as a Kid (o.k. and as an adult) I noticed robots doing most of the work, from waiting on tables to flying the ships. I always wondered what kind of jobs the regular people had. Unfortunately, as many jobs as are being created by technology, in the end, technology might be our financial downfall as well. Just a theory.

PhantomPhoton · Apr 10, 2007

Good to know. I'll definitely take my (virtually nill) patronage somewhere else. I'm so proud to be an American sometimes...

powernoodle · Apr 10, 2007

The self-correcting nature of free market ("laissez-faire") capitalism is the basis for capitalism's greatness. And capitalism - along with other freedoms - are what make America great.

Circuit City is demonstrating the marvelous self-correcting nature of free market capitalism by paying their employees what they are actually worth in the marketplace, as opposed to what the employees wish they were worth. This is good. When Circuit City's costs are excessive relative to the marketplace, the price of their goods goes up and consumers don't buy their products. So to stay in business, and to provide both goods and jobs, Circuit City must remain competitive by keeping costs - including employee costs - in line. If they do not, they go out of business and provide neither goods nor jobs. And then the same people who complain that Circuit City doesn't pay enough will then complain that Circuit City is out of business and employs no one.

America has countless opportunities for those who have a subjective belief that they are underpaid. It is not difficult to go find a "better" job, or in the alternative to learn very quickly that one's current job is actually paying what it is supposed to.

Edited: lets not forget that this same mechanism also operates to raise salaries to their actually marketplace value as well.

cheers

jtr1962 · Apr 10, 2007

woodrow said:
One big problem I see for the future is what I will call the 'Star Wars Effect' for lack of a better term. When I watched all the Star Wars movies as a Kid (o.k. and as an adult) I noticed robots doing most of the work, from waiting on tables to flying the ships. I always wondered what kind of jobs the regular people had. Unfortunately, as many jobs as are being created by technology, in the end, technology might be our financial downfall as well. Just a theory.

Actually, it's a given in the future that robots will be doing just about all of the menial, manual labor type jobs, and probably a fair number of the medium-skilled ones as well. Probably the only work available will be highly-skilled jobs where human imagination is required. This may well mean a sea change in how we think about economics. Since the majority will most likely be utterly incapable of doing the few remaining jobs regardless of how much they're trained, we may well just start allotting every citizen a fixed amount of goods/services, probably of such a magnitude that everyone will have at least what today is considered an upper-middle class or better lifestyle. Since these goods/services will be produced by robots essentially for free (at least once we get robots to start building other robots) this will be possible without dragging down the economy or heavily taxing those few citizens who chose to work. Yes, I see work as actually being a choice in the future rather than necessary. Unlike today where the rewards for work might be money to buy more material things, in the future I suspect the work itself will be its own reward. Perhaps doing very difficult work would increase one's prestige in society, or work might be done just to keep one busy, or any compensation might be used to obtain material things beyond one's allotment.. I also don't mean to imply that because the majority won't be able to do the necessary jobs that they will somehow be idle. Rather, the educational system will have to change to allow them to lead lives using their creativity as best they can. I picture huge numbers of hobby-based organizations forming largely to give these people someplace to showcase their talents. In the end, I think we'll be better for it even if the transition is tough. People will be doing what they do best-namely creative, non-repetitive tasks. Robots will be doing what they do best-all the repetitive, boring, dangerous things needed for society to function. When will this all happen? My guess is it'll start big-time within a generation, and probably run it's course by early in the next century. If current research into extending lifespans is successful, the majority of people reading this post may well be around to see it.

tradderran · Apr 10, 2007

BillCurnow said:
Circuit City announced their evil plans nearly two weeks ago giving their long-term, highest paid employees plenty of time to wonder if their necks were on the chopping block. While its a shame this is happening to them, the cold hard reality is that big-box electronics stores will close unless they are able to get a handle on their costs. Circuit City, Best Buy, CompUSA, all are destined for the scrap heap unless they can devise a better business model. Unless, of course, you're willing to pay 10% more for power-sucking gizmos...

They need to close. I my opinion big-box stores all need to go the way
of the dodo bird EXTINKT This includes wally world. We need more of the
small mom and pop stores. That don't just think of the bottom line.
And carry good products :sold:

tradderran · Apr 10, 2007

jtr1962 said:
Actually, it's a given in the future that robots will be doing just about all of the menial, manual labor type jobs, and probably a fair number of the medium-skilled ones as well. Probably the only work available will be highly-skilled jobs where human imagination is required. This may well mean a sea change in how we think about economics. Since the majority will most likely be utterly incapable of doing the few remaining jobs regardless of how much they're trained, we may well just start allotting every citizen a fixed amount of goods/services, probably of such a magnitude that everyone will have at least what today is considered an upper-middle class or better lifestyle. Since these goods/services will be produced by robots essentially for free (at least once we get robots to start building other robots) this will be possible without dragging down the economy or heavily taxing those few citizens who chose to work. Yes, I see work as actually being a choice in the future rather than necessary. Unlike today where the rewards for work might be money to buy more material things, in the future I suspect the work itself will be its own reward. Perhaps doing very difficult work would increase one's prestige in society, or work might be done just to keep one busy, or any compensation might be used to obtain material things beyond one's allotment.. I also don't mean to imply that because the majority won't be able to do the necessary jobs that they will somehow be idle. Rather, the educational system will have to change to allow them to lead lives using their creativity as best they can. I picture huge numbers of hobby-based organizations forming largely to give these people someplace to showcase their talents. In the end, I think we'll be better for it even if the transition is tough. People will be doing what they do best-namely creative, non-repetitive tasks. Robots will be doing what they do best-all the repetitive, boring, dangerous things needed for society to function. When will this all happen? My guess is it'll start big-time within a generation, and probably run it's course by early in the next century. If current research into extending lifespans is successful, the majority of people reading this post may well be around to see it.

Do you actually believe this BS :barf:

Somy Nex · Apr 10, 2007

tradderran said:
Do you actually believe this BS

everyone is entitled to their own opinion, especially when they do not forcibly impose it on others, and the world is certainly big enough for more than one way of thinking. in fact, it is how we as humans learn and grow, and hopefully be better off as a result.

instead of a cursory dismissal of something which that poster has clearly done some thinking about, maybe you'd like to offer the reasons why you feel what that poster has said is unrealistic, or share your own alternate view.

cerbie · Apr 10, 2007

tradderran said:
Do you actually believe this BS

No, but that's only because it's highly optimistic. I'm of the opinion that parts of it will come to pass, but we will have a long slow decline in which each person's time is valued less because of increased automation, rather than enough people becoming capable of rethinking the way the way they live their lives to make advanced technology actually work to our benefit, as jtr1962 envisions.

jtr1962 · Apr 10, 2007

cerbie said:
No, but that's only because it's highly optimistic.

I don't consider what I said optimistic but rather realistic. Either it comes to pass or we face the extinction of our species. The fact is whether we like it or not automation is here and will only become more prevalant. If the technology exists in ten years for fast food places to replace the equivalent of several workers with one $100,000 android you think they won't be all over it? Sure they will, and so will any other business which do work which androids can do. And as time goes on these androids will be able to replace more and more jobs. What happens then is more and more people who are not only unemployed, but probably unemployable. Guess what usually happens when a large segment of the population is having hard times? They generally revolt and either effect change for the better, or are exterminated by their governments for trying. So I guess the pessimistic scenario is that large numbers of former lower and middle class workers revolt and end up shot by the soldiers of their governments for their troubles. Somehow I have great difficulty imagining that scenario since the soldiers are more likely to relate to these workers, and join them, rather than support the upper classes/corporate fat cats who run their governments. While in the long run I feel the scenario I envisioned will come to pass, I have little doubt the transition will be long and, perhaps bloody. Hardly an entirely optimistic scenario. Offer an alternate one if you want. And since I don't have a crystal ball I doubt everything I said will come to pass anyway. It's just one scenario of many.

As an aside 20 years ago the majority would have had difficulty imagining the Internet and discussion boards like this one becoming common, so the reaction of tradderran is no surprise to me. In fact, I half expected some "comments" like that. The truth is the vast majority of people are utterly incapable of imagining anything much different than what they're used to until it's literally in their face. I've seen similar attitudes in the discussions here about EVs.

cerbie · Apr 10, 2007

jtr1962 said:
I don't consider what I said optimistic but rather realistic. Either it comes to pass or we face the extinction of our species.

You and your half-full glass... :grin2:

I don't see it being a matter of that coming to pass or that we face extinction; I see extinction facing us already. The trouble is we could have a few centuries to die in even once it's too late (assuming it isn't, of course).

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