The Luxeon Rebel

Are any lights going to be using this LED? I have zilch info on this new bulb, can someone help me out and point me to a site which will inform me on them? How efficient and how bright are they? I've always liked Luxeons, they generally have a smoother and better 'flood' performance with no rings or halos in the spill, I was saddenned when they were beat down in output and efficiency by Cree, so I hope they can return the beatdown with the Rebel combined with the smooth and ringless uniformity I've come to enjoy from Lux's. Please help! Any info would be much appreciated.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/159338

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/159082

Absolutely beautiful. Thanks Alin!!! Dang, those are bright and SMALL!!! I bet I can cram a lot more than 7 of those into a 'light'... :-D

L.E.D. said:

Luxeons, they generally have a smoother and better 'flood' performance with no rings or halos in the spill,

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You obviously have never seen a Cree with a good reflector

Rebel is the marketing hype we all here have expected. Still worse than Cree/SCC,
imho not suited to the flashlight market.
How You think to be able to put any focusing device on? Even if You WERE able to solder wires at the top (which is not possible, its a SMD only device)

Actually you can solder to the top of the package of the Rebel. I certainly do not think this is what Lumileds intended, but it does work. All you have to do is scrape back some of the silicon and solder to the exposed copper(?) on the top of the package.

Semiman

yellow said:

How You think to be able to put any focusing device on?

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i was thinking they might use an item like this in a Quad, or 5 even, shooting INTO the reflector. like a side emitter, or like the drop-ins that shoot into the side. i still wish somone would take a crack at a "heat pump tube", and create a Psudo-incan type bulb, that sticks up into a reflector, and gives us FOCUS back. we havent had focus for TO LONG.
its about time they focus again , with some new stuff.

Rebel prices ? $1 each for 1000 ?
Then lighting architecture is just beginning.

VidPro said:

i was thinking they might use an item like this in a Quad, or 5 even, shooting INTO the reflector. like a side emitter, or like the drop-ins that shoot into the side. i still wish somone would take a crack at a "heat pump tube", and create a Psudo-incan type bulb, that sticks up into a reflector, and gives us FOCUS back. we havent had focus for TO LONG.
its about time they focus again , with some new stuff.

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Hmm... If I can get some heatpipes I might take a crack a that.

Anyone have a source for small heatpipes in single qty?

oO

Interesting idea, but focus will be poor as you would not have a well defined point source of light. It is not enough to just fire into the sides of the reflector.

Semiman

I make 'lights' using lithium-polymer (lipo) batteries intended for model airplanes to power the light, and my dad makes the boost circuits. My most recent is 7 XRE's crammed into a metal bowl with the 11v lipo sitting in a carbon fiber case epoxied behind the bowl... It's darned bright, but mostly flood, I just put collimators on them as I don't know how to focus all the LED's into one beam. Still throws pretty far though, as its a massive amount of light. Sorry, still haven't gotten around to getting my own digital cam, I'll post pics sometime in the future if I get one..

does anyone have any idea when the LXML-PWC1-0070 will become available?

these are the ones rated at 70 @ 350mA . 130 @ 700mA

OddOne said:

Hmm... If I can get some heatpipes I might take a crack a that.

Anyone have a source for small heatpipes in single qty?

oO

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Go to Frys and get a small VGA heatpipe / fan unit. They are $24, but they are a true heat pipe with thier own fan. You concevably put about 20 of the Rebels on one of them and run them at 1 amp. The heat pipe/fan/sink assembly should be able to sink all you can throw at it.

CodeOfLight said:

Go to Frys and get a small VGA heatpipe / fan unit. They are $24, but they are a true heat pipe with thier own fan. You concevably put about 20 of the Rebels on one of them and run them at 1 amp. The heat pipe/fan/sink assembly should be able to sink all you can throw at it.

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Only problem is that the application requires a custom sink design, and a processor HSF won't fit the shape and size requirements. Thus, my mention of needing a source for individual heatpipes.

oO

Interesting idea, but focus will be poor as you would not have a well defined point source of light. It is not enough to just fire into the sides of the reflector.

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Well, in a situation where the arrangement provides certain other advantages, it kind of works with one LED and half a reflector, but even then, the resulting beam is a bit uneven, varying significantly with precise position and LED type - SSC P4s can give a smooth-edged largely circular spot, Lambertian Luxeons a harder-edged and less regular spot, Cree XR-Es seeming hard to position to get anything better than a 'squat keyhole' shape with very distinct beam edges. The first two can give a beam which actually seems apparently circular when not illuminating flat walls.

However, anything like worthwhile positioning does require the LED body to protrude into the other half of the reflector. It's not at all obvious how multiple LEDs, however small, could be accomodated whilst keeping a reflector intact, since they'd all want to be where some other LED already was.

I can see why people might think of comparisions between on the one hand a side-emitter, which gave out the bulk of its light in a relatively thin wedge-disc, hitting the reflector roughly sideways, and on the other a ring of outward pointing Rebels round a cooling core, but the Rebels would be emitting light over a wide range of angles, *and* their position would be rather outside the reflector axis, meaning only the fraction of light from them going basically perpendicular to the axis would be properly focussed. If the Rebel gave a really tightly focussed beam, the idea would more nearly work, but then might also be redundant.

i was thinking along the lines of the terralux thing
http://www.ledsupply.com/tle6.php
which forms a 2 zone beam pattern out of a mag (acording to the reviews)
even a copper strip going into a aluminum heat sink would be more heat sinking than that design. so getting full drive currents might be possible?

That's an interesting device.
I suppose with a pair, it's easier to get the emitting points nearer the axis than if using more LEDs.
When moved away from the focus point, I'd suspect that a rectangular or two-lobed beam might be more acceptable or useful than a 3-or-more lobed beam - apart from maybe use in a disco or as a talking point, would anyone want a beam with a hole in the centre, and a surrounding ring of N blobs of light seperated by blobs of darkness?

yellow said:

You obviously have never seen a Cree with a good reflector

Rebel is the marketing hype we all here have expected. Still worse than Cree/SCC,
imho not suited to the flashlight market.
How You think to be able to put any focusing device on? Even if You WERE able to solder wires at the top (which is not possible, its a SMD only device)

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I am not sure how this helps the discussion. A point was raised by another member about people jumping on a supplier bandwagon.

It would be as easy to focus a Rebel as any other LED. What is different about it?

I am not thrilled they have announced it and I can not go buy 70 and 80 lumen parts today. These parts will be as good as Cree when available which should be soon. I have seen samples and yes they are bright, but what can you tell with just your eye. Seoul has higher output, but that is a tradeoff they made in their phosphor but gave up other things.

Not suited to the flashlight market? Not suited to us who likes to do our own mods perhaps, but for mass market manufacturers, I would not agree. The small effective source should allow very small lights with good throw.

Right now, I prefer Cree as I find it is the best trade-off between color and efficiency. I hope that someone makes a high efficiency Rebel star when available as I still prefer the smooth light output of the Luxeons without the need for a dimpled reflector. However, by that point, perhaps Cree will have cranked up the efficiency again. I understand there is a high efficiency K2 on the way, so perhaps this is what us modders will prefer anyway.

Semiman

Any info would be much appreciated.

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How it helps?
Now this were MY thoughs about the issues the original poster asked and mentionned.
Again:
are the Rebels as efficient and bright? --> NO!
Luxes generally have better flood and no rings and halos in spill --> NO! (depends on focusing device)

OK; I could have just typed: "the Rebel is not the answer You are waiting for."
would have helped a lot, or?
imho giving some additional info, even if its just my impression, makes such a statement better understandeable.

and back to Your only real question, instead of raising some issues by Yourself that also dont help
Why difficult to put a focusing on it: its small size!
Even the Crees are difficult, especially if using the original optic/holder, but there is much more room for soldering wires onto than with the Rebel. Imagine trying to solder on the top of Rebel (if possible by scraping away the covering and the lens not going off because of this missing material). If there are wires there, a lens/optic will be hard to put on also.

PS: really waiting for that "improved" K2, really, thought the Rebel is that great and improved genious Lux answer.

are the Rebels as efficient and bright? --> NO!
- Not in devices you and me can easily get, but they have similar specs.

Luxes generally have better flood and no rings and halos in spill --> NO! (depends on focusing device)
- If you used a stippled or dimpled reflector you can get a smooth Cree or Seoul beam, but in general, it is easier to work with Luxeons

- Focus makes really no difference. The fact the Rebel is small is not an issue. How does this make and difference on focus? As long as you can center it.. and that would just take proper pad design.

- Yes you can solder wires to the top of the Rebel... not that hard really. I did it a few times when I was playing around with boards . I am sure we will have Rebel stars in short order from someone as well.

As I said, I personally prefer Cree, but I like to work with facts

It's tiresome to read threads beating up this new product before it's even released yet, at least the versions with output levels/colors we seek to use in portable lighting designs. This photon spewing particle of dust has some real potential and I'm anxious to see what can be done with it.